Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[Kee]

I am going to make this again soon fourth attempt any suggestions on how to get this to ferment down mine always stall out around 1.018

Never used the servomyces is that the missing link or should I only hold it at 65 for a day and let it free rise on its own

CSI always insisted that yeast was the key, so they use fresh krausen. I often will thrown in the whole starter at high krausen to know the yeast are ready (but you have to start with a slighter higher OG, the starter will knock down the gravity some).

Using pure oxygen definitely helps. And yes, yeast nutrient doesn't hurt, it doesn't have to be servomyces.

I always want the wort to get at least into the high 70s if not higher.

 

[jtp137]

CSI always insisted that yeast was the key, so they use fresh krausen. I often will thrown in the whole starter at high krausen to know the yeast are ready (but you have to start with a slighter higher OG, the starter will knock down the gravity some).



Using pure oxygen definitely helps. And yes, yeast nutrient doesn't hurt, it doesn't have to be servomyces.



I always want the wort to get at least into the high 70s if not higher.

I usually make 10 gallon batches so when I grow the starter I usually step it up if the last step is 4 liters I would be a little hesitant at throwing the entire starter in would it work if I would decant the 4 liters then on brew day make 2 liters of slightly higher OG wort maybe 1.050 put the decanted starter in and let it sit for 6 to 8 hours the. Throw the entire two liters in the 10 gallon batch

 

[sikkingj]

I can't speak to a 10 gallon batch, but my starter regime consists of making a 4L starter of 1.040 decanting and then capturing the blow off. This I believe is essential, once I get two or three days of blow off, I throw it into the fermentor.

 

[Kee]

I usually make 10 gallon batches so when I grow the starter I usually step it up if the last step is 4 liters I would be a little hesitant at throwing the entire starter in would it work if I would decant the 4 liters then on brew day make 2 liters of slightly higher OG wort maybe 1.050 put the decanted starter in and let it sit for 6 to 8 hours the. Throw the entire two liters in the 10 gallon batch

A lot of brewers have the same reservations about throwing in a big starter and I'd never try to convince anyone to do that if they have reservations. And it may not be so great for a "delicate" beer. But it works well for me in a Belgian dark strong.

What you suggest sounds like a good alternative that would work just as well, maybe even better. And 2 liters of 1.050 in 10 gallons would barely put a dent in the OG.

 

[BrewerDon]

I can't speak to a 10 gallon batch, but my starter regime consists of making a 4L starter of 1.040 decanting and then capturing the blow off. This I believe is essential, once I get two or three days of blow off, I throw it into the fermentor.

sikkingj,
Your approach sounds promising. I am not understanding why you decant your 4L starter if you plan to capture the blow off from it. Or, are you saying that you capture blow off from the fermentor and throw THAT back in? Would you mind clarifying?

Thanks!

 

[wixziu]

Thanks very much for this recipe! I just took a gravity sample from the batch I had brewed a couple of weeks ago and it's at 1.012 and already tasting excellent. My OG came in slightly under what I was shooting for at 1.082. I couldn't quite get the 0.75 gallon reduction to boil down to a syrup in 90 minutes...maybe I was being too cautious to avoid scorching.

I used the WLP530 as suggested and it is the most aggressive yeast I've seen. My yeast starter sprayed all over the kitchen on the stir plate, then again inside the fridge. That should have been a warning to use a blow off. Second day in and the fermenter sprays the basement ceiling and all the brewing equipment. Then it sprayed all over me as I was attempting to set up the blow off and clean up. Was active for a good 7 days before it calmed down.

Fun times, definitely will try again.

 

[sikkingj]

Blow off from the fermenter, not the starter.

I make a 4L starter, once it does its thing I cold crash the starter and then decant that - getting rid of the spent starter (say down to 2L). Now put your decanted starter into the wort. Use a blow off tube (into your clean and sanitized 5L starter flask) and collect the blow off after 2 or 3 days and put the blow off back into the fermenter - this is essential, in my opinion.

 

[pwortiz]

OK, I've made this recipe and believe I've stayed up to date with the posts....but with all this talk about blow offs, things spraying all over peoples' faces....I don't recall ever reading anything about people using Fermcap to keep all this experience off their clothes, out of their hair, and generally from making a mess.

Is there a reason for that or has none of us tried it? Did I miss it earlier in the posts?

 

[Oldskewl]

Blow off from the fermenter, not the starter.

I make a 4L starter, once it does its thing I cold crash the starter and then decant that - getting rid of the spent starter (say down to 2L). Now put your decanted starter into the wort. Use a blow off tube (into your clean and sanitized 5L starter flask) and collect the blow off after 2 or 3 days and put the blow off back into the fermenter - this is essential, in my opinion.

Do you use starsan in the blowoff flask? I was under the impression that the star san would kill the yeast. Maybe I'm wrong. I just had this happen with a violent 1318 fermentation in too full of a fermenter. Would be an easy way to harvest yeast.

 

[wixziu]

I guess I should have clarified, the amount of activity from the starter should have clued me in that a blow off was needed on the fermenter. I tried to use an airlock. I didn't read the entire thread until after the mess happened .

Is the point of capturing the krausen from blow off for better attenuation? I feel as though I got pretty good attenuation from the 2L starter alone. Maybe that was just luck though...

I think the idea of adding fermcap into the fermenter is probably a good one. I always use in the boil, but I did not add to fermenter. I will attempt that next time.

 

[sikkingj]

No starsan, I just sanitize the flask and put the blow-off tube in and cover the opening with tin foil.

 

[sikkingj]

Yes, you want to capture the blow off from the fermenter and reintroduce it into the fermenter.

 

[eujamfh]

We just did a side by side of this version and the SAQ version both brewed in January, bulked aged for about 6 months and then bottled. Followed recipes exactly as written except did a single infusion, and kept them in exact conditions. Both brew days went well, and hit my numbers and temps almost spot on.

We did blind tastings and I had a hard time telling the two apart. They are very similar (at least to me) at this point in aging.

I didn't have an original to compare, but it was pretty close from what I recall and noted when I was lucky to have an original last winter (which spurred me brewing both versions).

I intend to brew both versions each year to continue a long term taste test. I am curious how different they will age over a 12-24 month period.

CSI has excellent recipes on their site. The Chimay Blue is awesome. Just bottled a Rochefort 10 clone from them as well...but haven't tasted yet.


Thanks for the recipe!

 

[RussPDX]

Saq??

 

[bmaupin]

Saq??

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=147815

 

[orangemen5]

Saq hasn't logged on in almost a yr.

 

[wyowolf]

I really regret brewing this beer, after 9 months I tried it... and i gotta say... DAMN its fantastic!! but I only have 5 gallons this may the first keg I dont tell my friends about...

 

[bootney]

60 is enough for conversion. More likely you had your mash temp too high generating too many unfermentables. I can't recall, but there is a product or two out there that can break these down and make them fermentable, but you run the risk of drying it out too much.

Checked the gravity 33 days after pitching the WLP099 and it has fermented down to 1.017. Huge difference between 1.023 and 1.017 in terms of flavor. The residual sweetness is not in the way as much. I did pitch a pack of the safale abbey yeast this past Thursday. Hoping I can get it down to the target 1.012. I'll report back this Thursday to see if it dry yeast is working. Thanks to all of the posters for their support.

 

[RussPDX]

Thanks
I didn't know if SAQ was a person or something like BLAM

 

[Jcpilot]

Just brewed my second batch of this and I'm hoping I solved my attenuation issue from my first batch. I started yeast banking and stepped up 1,000 billion cells of Wyeast 3787 from a slant for an 11 gallon batch. The second day of fermentation has been very aggressive and I had a chance to try out my krausen capture device. I need a bigger jar! I'm going to bottle condition this batch and let it age for eight months before trying one. This batch tested the limits of my mash tun.

 

[Mer-man]

I could not help myself and did a gravity measurement almost every day.. It went from 1.089 to 1.010 in six days, which gives an ABV of approx. 11 %. I am happy I did a big starter with servomyces in both starter and wort, I guess yeast health must have been good.

The taste on day six is a pretty strong alcohol flavor, but no unpleasant flavors. I really love the flavor of this yeast.. Before I have used it in Leffe Blonde clones at 17-19 C, but now at 19-28 C it has a very different and delicious profile.

I guess I have to wait for Christmas to drink this one, which will be hard with my impatience.. Will definitely swap a few bottles with you Mocda

How did it turn out with the dansukker sirup?

 

[Jcpilot]

I collected 300 ml of slurry from the krausen capture jar and added it back to the fermenter. Next time I will use a larger container.

 

[jtp137]

What size conical and what size batch

 

[Jcpilot]

What size conical and what size batch

14 Gallon SS Brewtech Cronical with an 11 gallon batch.

 

[Gritsak]

In a genius move i bought all belgian pale malt instead of pilsen. Anyone brew this with 100% belgian pale?

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I collected 300 ml of slurry from the krausen capture jar and added it back to the fermenter. Next time I will use a larger container.

You might also want to consider lifting the collection bucket higher than the level of the wort. I've said this numerous times but nobody listens. Simple physics - make the overflow work uphill rather than downhill.

 

[cyanmonkey]

.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

I just thought others would be interested in hearing the results of a Quad tasting I did including this brew at my local brew club meeting last week.

Last week I opened my last bottle of westy 12 to share with my home-brew club. It was aged 6 years and I purchased it at the monistary when I lived in Germany. We compared the well-aged westy to this brew, which I made two years ago and cellered since then. We also compared to some other trappist quads, rochefort 10, chimay blue, and some american commercial versions. This clone was far and away the closest to the real westy and also the second-best tasting quad of the night.

This is an awesome recipe and I plan to brew it again soon, if only to keep my cellar well stocked.

Thanks to all for the great development of this recipe!

 

[jtp137]

Just brewed my second batch of this and I'm hoping I solved my attenuation issue from my first batch. I started yeast banking and stepped up 1,000 billion cells of Wyeast 3787 from a slant for an 11 gallon batch. The second day of fermentation has been very aggressive and I had a chance to try out my krausen capture device. I need a bigger jar! I'm going to bottle condition this batch and let it age for eight months before trying one. This batch tested the limits of my mash tun.

Did you solve the fermentation issue

 

[Jcpilot]

Did you solve the fermentation issue

Despite pitching 1 trillion cells and adding 700 ml of captured slurry back into the fermenter it stalled at 1.018. I propagated more yeast and pitched it and it's been bubbling for three days now. I'll take a gravity reading today and see where it is. The lessons learned are plenty of head space for this brew, and a larger capture system.