Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[jturman35]

I bought a piece for by bottle filler from NB called a "Foamless Finish". Link: Foamless Finish: Last Straw® Counterpressure Filler
It is basically a fancy stopper that fits around the filler tubes and seals to the top of the bottle.
This allows you to keep pressure (counter-pressure) on the beer in the bottle while filling.
Sounds great in theory, I haven't tried it yet though. Maybe in a couple weeks when I have a batch ready to bottle.

Hope you find a solution.

Still looking to bottle about half a keg for aging. Any luck with using this Foamless finish?

 

[JeffersonCoastal]

I have the NB Bottle filler and have had mixed results.

Personally though, I always bottle condition Belgian Dark Strongs (and Dubbels)

 

[XPLSV]

Personally though, I always bottle condition Belgian Dark Strongs (and Dubbels)

I rarely bottle, but my Trappist style ales all get bottled and corked. Recently did a side-by-side 10 gallon batch, kegging 5 gallons for my neighbor and bottle conditioning my 5 gallons. I prefer the bottle conditioned batch from the early samples.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I rarely bottle, but my Trappist style ales all get bottled and corked. Recently did a side-by-side 10 gallon batch, kegging 5 gallons for my neighbor and bottle conditioning my 5 gallons. I prefer the bottle conditioned batch from the early samples.

Agree 100%

 

[jturman35]

I agree as well, I have done a side by side in the past and the keg version just is not the same. I have had a keg in the keezer for two years and still just ok compared to previous bottle versions.

 

[dperrigan]

1.012 (!)

I was really apprehensive about making this beer. I've read through all 1474 posts on this thread at least twice. I've seen how many people had stuck fermentations over the years. I was worried that I'd stall somewhere around 1.032 and not be able to get it to go lower. But I stuck with the recipe (and a little instinct) and got to final gravity in 7 days. For those who are wondering whether to give this one a try, here are the key points of the instructions that I followed (and also where I deviated).

First of all, I slightly overshot my OG -- 1.095 vs 1.091. Turned out to be a non-issue.

I used WLP530. Three packs in a 4.5L starter (split between two flasks).

CSI says to pitch the yeast at high krausen (or better yet, pitch freshly harvested krausen). That wasn't going to work for me since I was going to be out of town for a few days between starting the starter and brewing. So I let it go for 5 or 6 days until it was done, refrigerated it, then decanted and pitched when my wort was at 63.

Brewing directions were followed pretty much exactly. Mash temp was 148 degrees. 2.5 bags of D-180 were added 10 minutes prior to flameout.

I brewed 5 gallons of wort. I split it evenly between three 3-gallon fermonsters so that I would have a lot of headspace. I've seen the photos of messy blowouts from this beer.

Wort was cooled then put into my fermentation chest freezer with inkbird set to 63. When temp was stable I aerated each fermenter for 5 minutes with an airstone (air, not pure O2), then pitched the yeast.

By the next day, there was activity (krausen and bubbles). Upped the temperature to 65.

(I have never smelled a more delicious and wonderful smell coming out of a fermenter than from this beer. Amazing)

The next two mornings I raised the temp 2 degrees each day, according to the recipe. But this is where I started worrying. I was now at 69 degrees. A sample showed me at 1.048 and the krausen and bubbling was already starting to slow down. All I had read in this thread said that you needed to get the temperature up into the high 70s/ low 80s in order to hit final gravity. I didn't think I was getting there fast enough. So in the afternoon I raised the temp to 71. In the evening I raised it to 73.

The next morning I raised it to 75. Sample showed me at 1.034. Better, but still worrying. Raised to 77 around noon, 79 in the afternoon, and 81 in the evening. (The recipe says not to go over 83. I decided to play it safe and max it at 81)

The next morning (5th day after pitching) it was down to 1.018. It looked like this was going to make it. The yeast really needed the higher temps.

Now, at the 6th day after pitching I'm at 1.013 and lowering the temp down to 60 degrees for 3 weeks. I'm not transferring to secondary, and I have no way of dumping yeast. I don't anticipate any issues as I usually leave beers in primary for 3-4 weeks. CSI says to expect the beer to go down the final gravity point during this time, so that should put me at 1.012.

Summary:
Key differences were that I used a completed starter that was crashed and decanted, rather than using fresh krausen -- and also that I aerated with regular air rather than O2. I was worried that I wouldn't get the full attenuation, but it turned out to be ok.

The combination of starting at a low temp and having fermenters just over 1/2 full meant that I never had krausen approach the top of the fermenters.

When I do this again, I will again start at 63 degrees but will ramp 3 or 4 degrees per day, depending on activity.

CSI says shoot for at least 84% apparent attenuation, with 86% as the goal. This was helpful since I started with a slightly higher OG. In my case, 1.012 is still 86.5% aa.

One thing I caught in all the posts is that a common factor in some of the stuck fermentations was from people reusing a yeast cake. CSI said a few times that this beer requires fresh yeast.

I can't think of anything else, other than that the hydrometer samples I pulled were delicious. This will be an amazing beer in a year.

Hope this helps,
Dan

 

[MikeCo]

I made a version of this in 2022 with 50% D-90 and 50% D-180. I prefer the flavor of the 50/50 to 100% D-180. However my 100% D-180 did better in competition. The 50/50 beer was judged as not to style for BDSA as it had too much chocolate flavor.

 

[JeffersonCoastal]

@dperrigan
Thanks for your post. Would like to know how the beer truly finished and the taste. Of course it's still a young beer for a while!

 

[evolutionary]

All this new chatter made me thirsty! Brewing a Dubbel with 3787 now. Plan on 2 Westy-12s on the yeast cake. One "stock" and one will be secondary with tart frozen cherries.

Did you end up doing this, and if so, how did the cherry one come out?

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

I've brewed this before, using the simple recipe, with great results. I have another batch ready for packaging in a few weeks.
Last time, I kegged and force carbonated 10 gallons. This time around, I'd like to keg 5 gallons and bottle 5 gallons. I'd like to naturally carbonate both.

This might be the only part I find confusing in this post. There is a lot of information on bottle conditioning.

Here is my plan, feel free to add your comments.

Priming Sugar
D-180 Candi Syrup
32 grams / gallon - 10 gallons, so 320 grams

Yeast
Lalvin EC-1118 Champagne Yeast
Amount - 1 sachet (5 grams)

I got the yeast dosing from response 21 which is a bit confusing when it comes to the Bottling/Kegging portion.

I did harvest the yeast cake when I dropped the trub, but I'm not sure how I'd measure to get the correct amount. I'd rather use the harvested WLP530, but measuring the dried yeast seems to be the easier way to go.

Thoughts/questions?

P.S. This post will turn 10 years old this coming year! Pretty cool. Great information.

 

[MikeCo]

I usually use 4g or a half sachet of yeast for priming 5 gallons of this beer. I have used CBC-1, BE-256 and T58. All worked well. A 5g pack is probably enough for 10 gallons. Lallemand recommends 0.1g per liter of beer for CBC-1 which is about 2g per 5 gallons. I just like to add more for higher alcohol beers.

I'm curious why you are using D-180 for priming sugar. Corn sugar or table sugar will do the job and are a lot less expensive.

 

[mac_1103]

Lallemand recommends 0.1g per liter of beer for CBC-1 which is about 2g per 5 gallons. I just like to add more for higher alcohol beers.

I have gotten very good results with 2 grams of CBC-1 for 5 gallons of >10% ABV beers that had been bulk aged for several months. I wish it came in smaller sachets, but it seems to keep just fine once opened as long as it stays dry. YMMV of course.

Also, 320 grams of candy syrup for 10 gallons is only going to give you 2.2 volumes of CO2 unless the beer has been very cold for a fairly long time.

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

I usually use 4g or a half sachet of yeast for priming 5 gallons of this beer. I have used CBC-1, BE-256 and T58. All worked well. A 5g pack is probably enough for 10 gallons. Lallemand recommends 0.1g per liter of beer for CBC-1 which is about 2g per 5 gallons. I just like to add more for higher alcohol beers.

I'm curious why you are using D-180 for priming sugar. Corn sugar or table sugar will do the job and are a lot less expensive.

Thanks for the response @MikeCo .
I have extra syrup and I don't see myself using it anytime soon, so I thought I'd give it a try.

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

I have gotten very good results with 2 grams of CBC-1 for 5 gallons of >10% ABV beers that had been bulk aged for several months. I wish it came in smaller sachets, but it seems to keep just fine once opened as long as it stays dry. YMMV of course.

Also, 320 grams of candy syrup for 10 gallons is only going to give you 2.2 volumes of CO2 unless the beer has been very cold for a fairly long time.

Thanks @mac_1103 . Yeah, after I posted, I used a priming calculator and realized 320 might be a little light. I'll. bump it to ~400 grams.
https://www.northernbrewer.com/page...PwA1NAnrPZRrnR-Cjt4xtHJjuiSP3h8oaAldpEALw_wcB

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

Two weeks of bottle conditioning.
Thrilled with how it turned out. Can’t wait to see how it evolves.

 

[Corey22]

Made this beer yet again, accidentally bought a little more of the 180 than the other so it’s a bit darker but still just as good!

 

[JeffersonCoastal]

Right before Christmas, I hosted a Belgian quad tasting event with 3 other home brewers. We had a blind tasting, and judged each sample. Lined up best on the left to right. 9 (un-labeled bottles) of the 12 Quads were home-brews. My brews placed #2, #3, #5, #7 and #9. See pic. Good times.

I brew a quad each year, so we got to do a vertical 2019-2022.

 

[Oldskewl]

Right before Christmas, I hosted a Belgian quad tasting event with 3 other home brewers. We had a blind tasting, and judged each sample. Lined up best on the left to right. 9 (un-labeled bottles) of the 12 Quads were home-brews. My brews placed #2, #3, #5, #7 and #9. See pic. Good times.

I brew a quad each year, so we got to do a vertical 2019-2022.

Very nice! I would love to have partaken in that event. Weyerbacher Quad is one of my favs. I want to try to clone it someday. I try to brew this Westvleteren 12 Clone each year as well.

FWIW, I came across some recipe info awhile ago for Weyerbacher's Quad(quite different method), their recipe is along these lines

SG 1.106
FG 1.016
39 IBU

2-row
Munich 10
Wheat
C-60
Spec B

Simcoe

 

[Bobo1898]

I've always stuck to Pils, Pale and candi syrup for my Belgian style recipes but have always come up short in the Belgian phenolics even though I'm pitching at 68 and bringing it up to 84 within 7-9 days. I've even open fermented for the first 2-3 days of this.

My go to strain is either Wyeast 3787 or WLP 530. I reached out to Wyeast and they suggested that I'm not getting those Belgian yeast characteristics because I'm not using wheat.

Those of you who have brewed the OP's recipe, or any Belgian "old world" recipe, have you experienced a lack of Belgiany characteristic in the absence of grains that aren't Pils/Pale malt?

I went back to BLAM and did notice a couple of the monasteries use wheat starch, but not Westvleteren or Westmalle. St. Bernardus (not a monastery) who has deep ties with Westvleteren, also doesn't appear to use wheat or wheat starch.

I try to be a purist when I can, even though it's quite a different experience at the homebrew level.

 

[Kee]

I've always stuck to Pils, Pale and candi syrup for my Belgian style recipes but have always come up short in the Belgian phenolics even though I'm pitching at 68 and bringing it up to 84 within 7-9 days. I've even open fermented for the first 2-3 days of this.

My go to strain is either Wyeast 3787 or WLP 530. I reached out to Wyeast and they suggested that I'm not getting those Belgian yeast characteristics because I'm not using wheat.

Sure seems like a strange comment from Wyeast. Maybe the rep just didn't want to be bothered. That aside, I've never looked for or expected much yeast expression from Wyeast 3787, especially in a Belgian dark strong. If you are looking for more, the only thing I can think of is to let the temperature rise early, no later than 2 or 3 days.

 

[Bobo1898]

If you are looking for more, the only thing I can think of is to let the temperature rise early, no later than 2 or 3 days.

Funny you mention this. I have also tried a free rise method. I had a Belgian ale that this yeast was pitched at 68 and free rose to 82 F within 24 hours. I tried to hold it so the yeast wouldn't drop out. I still didn't get the Belgiany characteristics. I wasn't comfortable with the beer rising this fast and wasn't looking for fusel properties so I started to control the rise to the method I use now.

Maybe the rep just didn't want to be bothered

Haha this is possible. They mentioned that it's the way the yeast interacts with the proteins of the wheat. It was very strange to hear. But something to try, I suppose, to see if I get a better result.

 

[JeffersonCoastal]

I too use Pilsner, pale, Candi syrup and WLP530. I also add a spot of Special B.
Seem to get the Belgiany aroma and taste on my quads

 

[MicroMickey]

My notes on Westvleteren fermentation are:
Wyeast 3787 or WLP530
Primary - pitch @ 68 F (20 C) and let rise to 82/84 F (28/29 C) for 4 - 6 days.
Secondary - 4 - 6 weeks @ 50 F (10 C)

 

[deuc224]

I did this also but controlled the rise every day for 3 degrees if i recall, held it for a day at 80 then lowered it to 50 for a week and put it in a keg and let it chill in a keg for 6 months. But no lie, it was hitting its strides at 9 months, i think thats where ill tap it next time.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Nice article about the history and hype from Jonny Garrett:
https://www.belgiansmaak.com/westvleteren-12/

In 2000, the brewery hit its capacity of around 4,750 hectolitres, a limit imposed purely by the monk’s refusal to add tanks and their insistence that the dark beers required up to two months of cold conditioning.

This stubbornness around process would be hard to justify at most commercial breweries, or even some of the larger Trappist Abbeys, but aside from tweaks forced by the seasonal variation in malt and hops, the Westvleteren 12 recipe has been the same since 1992.

It still uses hops from the local Poperinge region, Dingemans malts from Stabroek in the province of Antwerp, and invert sugar to bump up the ABV without adding body, as is the case with extra grain. Each batch uses fresh yeast delivered from Westmalle, which ferments in open-top, rectangular tanks. There is no filtration or centrifuge; instead the beers are cold conditioned until they are bottled, at which point more sugar is added to ensure the refermentation in bottle that fuels the carbonation.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Brewed this recently, OG was 1.092, gravity now at 1.011 (just tasted a drop off the hydrometer, it's really good already). But I'm wishing it had a bit more spice to it, and am thinking of dry-hopping with something noble-ish. I only used EKG @60 minutes, for 34 ibus...

Good idea? Or just a waste of hops that will be lost as the beer ages (I want to bottle soon, because my fermenter is just a plastic bucket).

 

[Kee]

Brewed this recently, OG was 1.092, gravity now at 1.011 (just tasted a drop off the hydrometer, it's really good already). But I'm wishing it had a bit more spice to it, and am thinking of dry-hopping with something noble-ish. I only used EKG @60 minutes, for 34 ibus...

Good idea? Or just a waste of hops that will be lost as the beer ages (I want to bottle soon, because my fermenter is just a plastic bucket).

That's not something I've personally done, but might try, although I'd be tempted to split the batch just to compare the results.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Brewed this recently, OG was 1.092, gravity now at 1.011 (just tasted a drop off the hydrometer, it's really good already). But I'm wishing it had a bit more spice to it, and am thinking of dry-hopping with something noble-ish. I only used EKG @60 minutes, for 34 ibus...

Good idea? Or just a waste of hops that will be lost as the beer ages (I want to bottle soon, because my fermenter is just a plastic bucket).

Westvleteren is not noted for having a spicy taste. It is much more about caramel, chocolate, raisin, prune, dates, and cherry. If you want to change it for your own taste and add some spices, I would recommend adding a couple of cinnamon sticks. Not too much - just a hint. A few vanilla beans might also add to the complexity. Note that the taste improves significantly with age. I made one 10 years ago and have a few bottles left. It is amazing!

 

[GregKelley]

Brewed this recently, OG was 1.092, gravity now at 1.011 (just tasted a drop off the hydrometer, it's really good already). But I'm wishing it had a bit more spice to it, and am thinking of dry-hopping with something noble-ish. I only used EKG @60 minutes, for 34 ibus...

Good idea? Or just a waste of hops that will be lost as the beer ages (I want to bottle soon, because my fermenter is just a plastic bucket).

You can always give it a try, but if you are aging it, the hop aroma will likely fade. This beer is more known for aromas of chocolate and dark fruits.