Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[cyanmonkey]

She's at high krausen!!! She's picking up steam and she's gonna blooooooowwww!!!

Seriously, though, I've never had a brew have such vigorous fermentation and it goes against ever fiber of my being to let it go at 83*F, but away she goes.

Blowoff smells like banana and cinnamon. Sooooooo excited.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

She's at high krausen!!! She's picking up steam and she's gonna blooooooowwww!!!

Seriously, though, I've never had a brew have such vigorous fermentation and it goes against ever fiber of my being to let it go at 83*F, but away she goes.

Blowoff smells like banana and cinnamon. Sooooooo excited.

Any temp control on this? 83F might be on high side for this ale.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Any temp control on this? 83F might be on high side for this ale.

No, letting it do it's own thing. I've read multiple sources mentioning 82-84 (Michael Jackson for one) and someone somewhere mentioned they typically keep it below 83. I do have temp control, but was trying to keep it true to Westy style as I can.

It's down to 78 about 36 hours in.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

No, letting it do it's own thing. I've read multiple sources mentioning 82-84 (Michael Jackson for one) and someone somewhere mentioned they typically keep it below 83. I do have temp control, but was trying to keep it true to Westy style as I can.

It's down to 78 about 36 hours in.

Let us know how this turns out.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Let us know how this turns out.

Will do. Thanks for all your hard work.

 

[GregKelley]

No, letting it do it's own thing. I've read multiple sources mentioning 82-84 (Michael Jackson for one) and someone somewhere mentioned they typically keep it below 83. I do have temp control, but was trying to keep it true to Westy style as I can.

It's down to 78 about 36 hours in.

Realize that the temperature mentioned is for the specific setup that Westy is brewed in. Just hitting that temp may not have the same affect that they get because you have a different amount of wort being fermented and your fermenter geometry is different.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Realize that the temperature mentioned is for the specific setup that Westy is brewed in. Just hitting that temp may not have the same affect that they get because you have a different amount of wort being fermented and your fermenter geometry is different.

Understood. Guess we'll just wait and see. I ain't scurred.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

She's at high krausen!!! She's picking up steam and she's gonna blooooooowwww!!!

Seriously, though, I've never had a brew have such vigorous fermentation and it goes against ever fiber of my being to let it go at 83*F, but away she goes.

Blowoff smells like banana and cinnamon. Sooooooo excited.

Mine was temperature controlled, but went up to 83 F several times. It turned out to be an excellent beer.

 

[cyanmonkey]

No higher alcohols to speak of as of yet @ 70% aa. I have to assume issue would be more due to yeast health than ferm temperature, thoughts? Currently at 74 and will most likely hit terminal within 72 hours of pitching.

 

[jtp137]

No higher alcohols to speak of as of yet @ 70% aa. I have to assume issue would be more due to yeast health than ferm temperature, thoughts? Currently at 74 and will most likely hit terminal within 72 hours of pitching.

What temp did you pitch?

 

[cyanmonkey]

What temp did you pitch?

67, or so.

 

[jtp137]

Surprised it didnt go higher on its own what temp was the surrounding air?

 

[cyanmonkey]

Surprised it didnt go higher on its own what temp was the surrounding air?

About 73 ambient.

Pitched about 1 million cells/mL, aerated for 60 seconds and added yeast nutrient. Should be some healthy yeast.

 

[jtp137]

About 73 ambient.

Pitched about 1 million cells/mL, aerated for 60 seconds and added yeast nutrient. Should be some healthy yeast.

Im curious to see how much it attenuates. I made this twice using 1 million cells/ml and a controlled temp ramp from 65 to 80 over 7 days and it finished at 1.014 second attempt pitched 1.25 million cells/ml with controlled ramp got to around 1.013-1.014

Was debating pitched cold and letting it rise naturally or pitching fresh krousen

 

[cyanmonkey]

How did you add sugar? I added 3 lbs @ 10 minutes. Did you divide the 10 minutes, 0 minutes and in primary? I'm at 1.026 and showing signs of slowing down. Beersmith has me stopping at 1.017, which I typically blow past their target with Belgian yeasts, but I'm showing down fairly early.

 

[jtp137]

How did you add sugar? I added 3 lbs @ 10 minutes. Did you divide the 10 minutes, 0 minutes and in primary? I'm at 1.026 and showing signs of slowing down. Beersmith has me stopping at 1.017, which I typically blow past their target with Belgian yeasts, but I'm showing down fairly early.

Both attempts I added all of it at end of boil, attempt one used 3 pounds d-180 attempt two used 2.5 pounds. This yeast will also slow down if it cools once it hits the 80s you need to keep it there or it will crash. Well this is coming from a guy who had to add more yeast to get it to drop a few more points

 

[cyanmonkey]

Both attempts I added all of it at end of boil, attempt one used 3 pounds d-180 attempt two used 2.5 pounds. This yeast will also slow down if it cools once it hits the 80s you need to keep it there or it will crash. Well this is coming from a guy who had to add more yeast to get it to drop a few more points

I've never had an issue with this yeast finishing out before. Mind you, when I say slowing down, what I mean is a one second stream of bubbles every 4 seconds. It's just not going bananas like it was at first. I'll warm it up if I have too, but I don't think it has much left.

 

[sikkingj]

I've brewed and fermented my Westy 12 clone, but I keg. My normal process is to force carb for 3-days and enjoy. With large beers (RIS) I force carb, let age for the 3-6 months required.

I'm assuming the same holds with this beer. Do I force carb and then let it sit in the keg for 8-12 months?

Thanks for all the information and wonderful tips - I'm looking forward to trying this beer in September 2016.

 

[cyanmonkey]

I've brewed and fermented my Westy 12 clone, but I keg. My normal process is to force carb for 3-days and enjoy. With large beers (RIS) I force carb, let age for the 3-6 months required.



I'm assuming the same holds with this beer. Do I force carb and then let it sit in the keg for 8-12 months?



Thanks for all the information and wonderful tips - I'm looking forward to trying this beer in September 2016.

Original recipe states 7 weeks, I think, but it's one that I think only gets better.

 

[jtp137]

I noticed gets great around 6 months

 

[pwortiz]

I noticed gets great around 6 months

Funny...I've noticed it gets grape for me after 6 months. I think someone else mentioned that but it really does...or did....i don't know now because i'm trying to have only 1 per month.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Funny...I've noticed it gets grape for me after 6 months. I think someone else mentioned that but it really does...or did....i don't know now because i'm trying to have only 1 per month.

Oxidation?

Grape like grape juice?

 

[pwortiz]

Grape like grape juice. It was weird and only an underlying flavor next to the plum/stone fruit flavors, etc. It's not bad, just surprising. I swear I remember someone else on this thread had the same thing happen but it's been a while.

 

[RussPDX]

Ha! I thought grape was just a typo for great!

 

[Kharnynb]

A new batch is happily farting away in the corner of the room again...much more active and using a big blow-off tube, now that i'm using the real wlp530 and csi's syrup instead of brewferm.

 

[pwortiz]

Ha! I thought grape was just a typo for great!

That little bit 'o fun was the main reason I posted lol:fro:

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Funny...I've noticed it gets grape for me after 6 months. I think someone else mentioned that but it really does...or did....i don't know now because i'm trying to have only 1 per month.

Yes, Westmalle produces esters closer to cherry and grape once beyond 82-83F. (This is not a grape-husk off flavor or tannic mouthfeel). Some people like this profile since it resembles the esters found in Rochefort 10. That being said, here at CSI our goal was very basic in effectively cloning the Westy 12...so we recommend lower temps for that. If the fusels can be managed or aged-out then the subtle cherry/grape esters are very nice.

 

[Zepth]

So the back story:
I work in a customer service industry. A client had recently returned from Belgium with a case Westy 12 and was kind enough to send us home with a bottle each. My coworkers made short work of theirs. Couple days pass and coworkers are asking when I'm planning to make my own beer that is just like "That monk beer." Shocked to hear that I haven't even had mine yet (cellaring and waiting on friends to be around to share with), I have been thinking about it more and more.

Clear wort boil-down notes (Optional Step):
-------------------
(Optionally) perform a separate boil-down of 1.00 gallon of vorlaufed wort into a syrup using the following steps:
1. Extract 1.0 gallon of wort at the beginning of clear runoff into a 3-5 gallon pot.
2. Boil the wort down until it becomes a dark mahogany brown and is bubbling with large bubbles.
3. Be careful NOT to burn the maltose syrup.
4. The result will be approximately 24-26 ounces of syrup.
5. Re-crash the syrup by adding wort from the ongoing main boil.
6. Pour the dissolved liquid back in to the main boil.

I would really like to do this step. Problem being that my kettle borrows the stove outlet, and running the coleman while maintaining a boil is both not allowed on the balcony, but could have me running back and forth like a headless chicken. Has anybody tried to do this separately and add the boiled down portion to the fermenter instead of kettle? Exactly how optional is this part?

 

[teamcoaster]

I've brewed and fermented my Westy 12 clone, but I keg. My normal process is to force carb for 3-days and enjoy. With large beers (RIS) I force carb, let age for the 3-6 months required.

I'm assuming the same holds with this beer. Do I force carb and then let it sit in the keg for 8-12 months?

That's basically my plan for the batch I will brew this weekend. The only difference is that I intend to bottle condition the beer in the keg instead of force carbing it. I expect to have it ready to serve next year by Christmas.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Hands down best beer I've ever made. REALLY young and can already tell this is great.

Let it do its own thing and it got up to 83*F within 36 hours after pitching. Aerated for 60 seconds and pitched 1 million cells/mL. I get the cherry that CSI mentioned, but I have no sort of comparison to a real Westy. I just know this is great. A little phenolic and hot, but that will come down with time.

 

[Elkaybay]

Hi everyone,

I might have missed it (just read all pages), but what do you use for bottle carbonation?
Which sugar and in which quantity?
Capped bottles or flip-top?

Thanks a lot !

 

[mbbransc]

That's basically my plan for the batch I will brew this weekend. The only difference is that I intend to bottle condition the beer in the keg instead of force carbing it. I expect to have it ready to serve next year by Christmas.

I brewed this back on MAR 14th, force carbed and left it in the keg in the basement every since. I haven't tasted it in a couple of months but last time I did, I got a raisiny, grape soda sort of flavor from it. So I think I know what the other brewers were talking about when they referenced 'grape'. Whenever my Beer Gun arrives, I plan to bottle most of it but put the last gallon-ish on tap.

I also bottled 6 bbers back in MAY with some bourbon that had been soaking with oak. I haven't sampled any of those yet.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Hands down best beer I've ever made. REALLY young and can already tell this is great.

Let it do its own thing and it got up to 83*F within 36 hours after pitching. Aerated for 60 seconds and pitched 1 million cells/mL. I get the cherry that CSI mentioned, but I have no sort of comparison to a real Westy. I just know this is great. A little phenolic and hot, but that will come down with time.

The import Westy 12 is subdued. It has more of a plum/prune finish, (some say raisin), with very little breadiness. The Monk's claim to slow the metabolic heat build up by water cooling the fermentor during the first 24-48 hours. Keeping the temps to not more than 80F will create more of a prune/plum after aging. Free rising the metabolic temps will get a more fruity ester profile. I like them all but if the goal is a clone then keeping temps in check and aging for 12 months is key

 

[jtp137]

Does anyone know how the rocherfort yeast compares to the westmalle yeast? Do you need a fresh krousen pitch

 

[brew_darrymore]

Hi everyone,

I might have missed it (just read all pages), but what do you use for bottle carbonation?
Which sugar and in which quantity?
Capped bottles or flip-top?

Thanks a lot !

As with other beers, you can carbonate with corn sugar or, as per CSI, you could use their Belgian candi syrup. I use Northern Brewer's priming calculator:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator


edit: I use only swing-top bottles.

 

[orangehero]

Swing tops may be a bad idea for long term aging due to their oxygen permeability, especially if you use silicone gaskets.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Swing tops may be a bad idea for long term aging due to their oxygen permeability, especially if you use silicone gaskets.

I used swing top bottles to bottle my Westies a year ago, and have had no noticeable problems whatsoever. In fact, I question the concern about the use of swing tops, since the bottles are pressurized from inside, so it would seem impossible for any oxygen to get in even if the gaskets were permeable. Also, if the gaskets were permeable, one would expect to notice some loss of pressure, which I have not noticed. Even if a tiny amount did get out, there's still plenty of pressure in the bottle to keep oxygen out.

The only problem with using swing top bottles that I can see, is if the gaskets were old and dried out to begin with - then there might be significant leakage. But if fresh gaskets are used, I can't see there being any problem using them whatsoever.

 

[pwortiz]

I used swing top bottles to bottle my Westies a year ago, and have had no noticeable problems whatsoever. In fact, I question the concern about the use of swing tops, since the bottles are pressurized from inside, so it would seem impossible for any oxygen to get in even if the gaskets were permeable. Also, if the gaskets were permeable, one would expect to notice some loss of pressure, which I have not noticed. Even if a tiny amount did get out, there's still plenty of pressure in the bottle to keep oxygen out.

The only problem with using swing top bottles that I can see, is if the gaskets were old and dried out to begin with - then there might be significant leakage. But if fresh gaskets are used, I can't see there being any problem using them whatsoever.

+1 - I actually save my EZCaps for stuff I want to age up to 3 years. Nothing has ever lasted beyond that so I don't know how it would do. All my best batches for aging (including the Westy) I wait until I have enough swing tops.

 

[orangehero]

O2 creeping into the bottle over time is due to the partial pressure of O2 being lower in the beer than the external environment, independent of the total pressure from the CO2. Oxidation is a very common home brew off flavor. Personally I try to extend the aging potential of my big (and expensive) beers as much as possible.

 

[jtp137]

Those that pitch fresh krousen what temp is the fresh yeast when you pitch? Would you need to cool it to the temp of the wort if the wort is 65 and the krausen is in the 70s would that shock the yeast