Welding questions

[Ohio-Ed]

Sounds like a lot of gap in the weld and pulling the arc out in the weld zone instead of tailing of on the side of the keg away from the main puddle. We have always called that the pull out as***le as it leaves a nice round crater in the weld to leak for you.

One of the original leaks I saw looked like a crack across the weld, I don't remember exactly where the other was... Not sure it that was the as***le you are talking about or not?

I am obviously not a welder and this guy is only going to take so much "advise" from me. There is some pretty consistent ideas of what the problem with the weld is from you guys here on HBT... If I had bought a welder and attempted to do this myself, trust me I'd be trying what I'm hearing here. That's what's frustrating, I can't act on what I feel is good advice, I have to wait and see what he decides to try next...arrggg.

Dog House - yea I know these things are true... As bad as this is going, I think I am still better off than I would have been with some of the first guys I talked to. This welder really is a nice guy, he is trying to fix this (I think he probably has limited resources for finding the answer... he doesn't have HBT at his disposal ). I agree he is the problem, but because he is at the edge of his knowledge/ability, not because he is an a$$hole. I think many others would have thrown in the towel by now.

Thanks for the sentiment guys... I can hardly wait to get this thing done.

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

Sounds like a lot of gap in the weld and pulling the arc out in the weld zone instead of tailing of on the side of the keg away from the main puddle. We have always called that the pull out as***le as it leaves a nice round crater in the weld to leak for you.

A crater at the end of the weld while cutting back the heat or from a dirty prep job plus not using the crater fill feature of the welder?

I have a friend that ends up with pin holes and bubbles from crap he tries to weld over, he just keeps adding filler over the crap instead of grinding out the area and starting over again. His kegs look like hell plus uses liquid steel to seal up pin holes. One of those "Good Enough" people.

I bet that welder wants you to just go away.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Got the keg back today.
He ended up welding a 16 gauge SS plates over both holes that were leaking and re-installing the couplings. He plugged all the couplings and water tested it before I got there... no leaks. I brought it home and retested just to make sure... no leaks. I'm not 100% happy that he welded the plates over the holes and there is a bit of sugaring around the couplings, but at this point it's done. I took some pictures but won't be able to post them til tomorrow. I have to say, I'm really impressed that this guy hung in there until he got it as good as he did. As I left with the keg... he shook my hand, commented about this being a learning experience and he said to let him know when I had others to be done.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Some pictures as promised. These were taken with my phone.

 

[GreenMonti]

Arrrrgghh,

Sorry man. That's rough. The bottom one looks like it is rusting.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Arrrrgghh,

Sorry man. That's rough. The bottom one looks like it is rusting.

Cool it Monti; JK. Our HBT member has already been thru the meat grinder on this welding hack job. Kind of sad I agree, time for damage control to salvage them back to what they almost were before he started this welding process.
I see a lot of threads inside the temp probe, I myself would of bored them out until smooth on the lathe before welding in the coupling. This way a lot cleaner with threads only on couplings needing a internal fitting threaded on.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Cool it Monti; JK. Our HBT member has already been thru the meat grinder on this welding hack job. Kind of sad I agree, time for damage control to salvage them back to what they almost were before he started this welding process.
I see a lot of threads inside the temp probe, I myself would of bored them out until smooth on the lathe before welding in the coupling. This way a lot cleaner with threads only on couplings needing a internal fitting threaded on.

BrewBeemer: I have pretty thick skin and I'm not blind, so I know this welding is far from perfect. As for the threads, I plan to thread a "shield" into the coupler to protect the temp probe. The shield will be a 1/2" SS Nipple with the threads cut off one end and a series of wide slots cut into it to allow thermal transfer. I plan to make one each for the HLT, MT & BK. I'm just gonna hand thread them in so they can easily be removed for cleaning between use.

GreenMonti: The coupling doesn't look as bad as the picture. It is discolored, but I don't see signs of rust just "yet".

This keg is identical (same couplings in the same place) to another I had welded. The idea was to have an HLT & BK that would be interchangeable. I think I will start by using this one as the HLT. Plain water may be a little easier for me to keep an eye on the condition of the welds.

I have a couple extra kegs that have not been touched. I will continue to keep my eyes open for a weldor locally, and I may having these re-done in he future. Heck, who knows... maybe I end up spending the $ and buy commercial pots to replace the kegs.

Bottom line... I'm not 100% happy, but next to the original keggle I've been using these look golden and nobody has died from drinking the beer made in it. I will use these and keep my eyes open for opportunities, but isn't that what we always do as Home Brewers?

Thanks to all that have followed this thread and offered input.

Ed

 

[Dog House Brew]

Glad to hear it Ed, about the thick skin. Actually I thought they looked better than I had expected. Not great, but usable. They look a lot better than the couplings I had put into my original 10 gallon Polarware pot I paid $250 for. I had a heart attack when I saw my job. They will make great beer, it just sucks that you had worked so hard to get the job done right. I second the thought of pots. I get my money together I will have 30 gallon kettles. Thanks for sharing and giving the education. Really a good thread. Now get brewing!!!!!!

 

[ardentfrost]

About 10 years ago I worked in a sheet metal shop and spent some time working with the welders doing fitting and cleaning (usually there was one or two guys assigned to doing that so the welders could spend more time welding and less time forming, holding, cleaning, and setting up the metal that needed welding).

I say that just to say this:

If there is rust in the weld, all is not lost. Stainless is a great metal to work with, but it does take special precaution when preparing and working with it. That includes cleaning it (pre and post weld) with a grinding wheel that has NEVER been used on iron or galvanized. When used on iron or galvanized, the grinding wheel gets bits of it lodged into the flaps which then come off into the stainless. It's those little bits that rust, not the stainless itself.

To fix, go buy a brand new grinding or flapper wheel and clean the weld again (a flapper wheel on a drill might be better considering how tight that area looks). Make sure you get all signs of rust thoroughly to remove all those bits of rustable metal, and don't be afraid of grinding the welds down to get space around them. Just be careful not to grind all the way through the metal.

That being said, it's hard from the pic to say if there is or isn't rust. It looks like it might just be char marks from the welder having the heat turned up too high for the material. Just keep an eye on it after a brew or two, but don't fret too much. It could have been WAY worse.

 

[BrewBeemer]

I noticed the labor rates at my friends stainless fab shop, he charges $85 an hour. I've see people come in with an idea and not any fully designed plans to work off hence more paid time to complete the design project. These people will drop from $500 to $5,000 without batting an eye. Same with custom stainless marine design and fab welding jobs he lands, they just want it done and pay up without any worry about the cost.