Welch's Grape Juice Wine

[g1230g]

I love how this thread just keeps on growing. I make this recipe on a regular basis. My family loves it as a sweetish table wine. Its good stuff.

I just wanted to keep this thread going.

Some additional flavors to the basic recipe that I have began to experiment with regarding the Welsh's recipe include...vanilla bean, toasted french oak and pure cherry extract. Given that the basic recipe is quite refreshing and one-dimensional - I wanted to see if I could build in some additional layers.

I also have found a concord concentrate supplier that sells bulk concentrate in 2.5 gallon
containers - the brix is higher than Welch's and much easier to work with. The result is a much richer deeper bodied concord wine.

I will never again use Welch's.

I just bottled 4 cases and am getting ready to get the next 4 case batch going. My problem is - I can't seem to stay out of it long enough to let it age!

 

[Br3wski]

I’ve been using Welch’s grape juice concentrate for some time now, but I use 18 cans / 5 gallon batch, with no added sugar, no tannin, no added acid. I’ve quit taking measurements for OG.
However, I add other things at the beginning, because I view wine as a food and nutrition is my objective along with the pleasure of making my own.
The additions can be hibiscus, ginger root, citrus peel, anise stars, cocoa powder, vanilla beans, or whatever turns you on from your stash of natural flavorings. OH. Try a few hot peppers 🌶.
I always shred and boil my additives before they go into the fermentor. ‘Don’t need any foreign thingys to corrupt it.
Pitch the yeast after you’ve added enough water (not chlorinated water), leaving 5-6” of headroom, and stick an airlock in the lid.
After 2 weeks, rack it off into a 5 gallon carboy and top it off with water.
This produces exactly 13 bottles (1.5 liter).
Cork ‘em and let ‘em rest on their sides,in a dark place in the basement for a month.

 

[Evilgrin]

Welch's white from Costco and 1-2 cups of honey isnt bad actually.

 

[Br3wski]

Welch's white from Costco and 1-2 cups of honey isnt bad actually.

Welch’s white, or any other fruit juice concentrate is considerable.
Honey? Honey can take a little longer to ferment, compared to refined white sugar, but it has its own flavor. Consider making mead. I use 11 lbs of honey to a 5 gallon batch.
Try also brown sugar as a taste option in your sugar.

 

[Evilgrin]

White grape and honey is pyment. A little FermaidK for nutes seems to help it ferment just fine.

 

[jmcdaniel0]

I just wanted to keep this thread going.

Some additional flavors to the basic recipe that I have began to experiment with regarding the Welsh's recipe include...vanilla bean, toasted french oak and pure cherry extract. Given that the basic recipe is quite refreshing and one-dimensional - I wanted to see if I could build in some additional layers.

I also have found a concord concentrate supplier that sells bulk concentrate in 2.5 gallon
containers - the brix is higher than Welch's and much easier to work with. The result is a much richer deeper bodied concord wine.

I will never again use Welch's.

I just bottled 4 cases and am getting ready to get the next 4 case batch going. My problem is - I can't seem to stay out of it long enough to let it age!

If you dont mind where do you get the concentrate?

 

[dchalladay]

I make this quite a bit, but have tweeked it a bit. I use 2 cans of juice per gallon, but for a dry wine, I use 1.75 lbs of sugar. For a medium wine, use 2 lbs sugar and a desert wine, 2.25 lbs. But this left a bit of a thin mouthfeel wine to me, so I started making it with the 1.75 lbs of sugar with D47 yeast. This just about maxes out the yeast to 14%. Then I sweeten it to taste with additional straight concentrate. If the yeast start in again, I wait a few days and sweeten again. Eventually, the yeast stop working. Or you could throw in a camden tablet, but I never use them unless I am in a hurry and have to have it.

If you really like a heavier wine, you could even do 3 cans per gallon. I have done that, but you have to cut back on the sugar and I don't remember what I did there. Anyway.. Cheers!!

I just started 2 batches recently and forgot to take the OG. I am curious what the OG roughly is. I did a 1.75lb sugar for a dryer one and a 2lb batch for the wife. Any help here?

Thanks!!!

 

[g1230g]

If you dont mind where do you get the concentrate?

Sure - no problem - I am not sure how the admins feel about posting links - so I will send you the link in a PM.

I searched for quite sometime before I was able to find this type of a small supplier for concord concentrate.

Just a little bit about them - they are one of several concord growers located in the concord belt in NY. My particular supplier is a family operation that gets the product from the big processors and packages it for consumers.

I have purchased from her several times and have no complaints. For 2.5 gallons of concord concentrate it costs $75.00 to ship east of the Mississippi and $100.00 to ship west of the Mississippi. Orders are sent by UPS with a tracking number.

As mentioned before - the concentrate is deeper and richer than Welch's. As far as cost comparison - it is at or a bit cheaper than Welch's.

Just a few tips - if you order - order on a Friday and it usually ships on Monday - thus being delivered during the week and avoiding sitting in the UPS warehouse over the weekend.

Once you get your product - keep it cool (refrigerator) if possible until you are ready to use it.

Good luck and cheers!

 

[wstbrewing]

Sure - no problem - I am not sure how the admins feel about posting links - so I will send you the link in a PM.



I searched for quite sometime before I was able to find this type of a small supplier for concord concentrate.



Just a little bit about them - they are one of several concord growers located in the concord belt in NY. My particular supplier is a family operation that gets the product from the big processors and packages it for consumers.



I have purchased from her several times and have no complaints. For 2.5 gallons of concord concentrate it costs $75.00 to ship east of the Mississippi and $100.00 to ship west of the Mississippi. Orders are sent by UPS with a tracking number.



As mentioned before - the concentrate is deeper and richer than Welch's. As far as cost comparison - it is at or a bit cheaper than Welch's.



Just a few tips - if you order - order on a Friday and it usually ships on Monday - thus being delivered during the week and avoiding sitting in the UPS warehouse over the weekend.



Once you get your product - keep it cool (refrigerator) if possible until you are ready to use it.



Good luck and cheers!

I’d appreciate that link as well if you don’t mind..

Thanks,

 

[g1230g]

I’d appreciate that link as well if you don’t mind..

Thanks,

Sure - no problem - will send the link via PM.

For me personally - it is much easier dealing with a 2 1/2 gallon container than all of those little Welch's cans.

Enjoy!

 

[dordelli]

Long time brewer and just whipped a batch of this, first foray into wine and the wife is excited. Made 2.5 gals in my 3 gal better bottle and squeezed into my standup freezer ferm chamber with a couple batches of beer being stored at 65, been bubbling away pretty slowly for the last 3x days but not vigorous by any means, is this temp too cold for the Red Star yeast I chose? Will it just take longer to finish or should I pull it out and store in a closet. Still in the 80's here in SoCal so not sure my best approach? I for sure can ramp up my ferm chamber to 68, but not any higher.

 

[g1230g]

Long time brewer and just whipped a batch of this, first foray into wine and the wife is excited. Made 2.5 gals in my 3 gal better bottle and squeezed into my standup freezer ferm chamber with a couple batches of beer being stored at 65, been bubbling away pretty slowly for the last 3x days but not vigorous by any means, is this temp too cold for the Red Star yeast I chose? Will it just take longer to finish or should I pull it out and store in a closet. Still in the 80's here in SoCal so not sure my best approach? I for sure can ramp up my ferm chamber to 68, but not any higher.

Hi there - while I am not an expert - I am happy to share what works for me.

For the yeast - I use "Red Star Premier Cuvee" and based on my research the Premier Cuvee can withstand the higher alcohol concentration during the fermentation process. I do five gallon batches at a time. A couple of important steps that I do to ensure robust fermentation is to properly hydrate the yeast with "Go Ferm Protect" prior to introducing it to the must.

While there are a few other steps to this process - the hydration temperature should be 90+ degrees during hydration. Another step that I use is to feed the must "Fermaid K"...once at first sign of fermentation - usually between 12 and 24 hours. The second feeding comes at 1/3 sugar depletion.

In the early stages I keep the must at 72 - 75 degrees. Once the fermentation stops and I rack it - I allow it to cool down in the garage or basement.

Typically - I will have at least 14 - 18 days of active bubbly fermentation. On my last batch it was active for about 22 days before the yeast finally threw in the towel and said "we are done". I usually have about 8 - 9 days of robust bubbly activity before it slightly slows.

Just my opinion - in beginning think warm - in the end think cool.

 

[Kalaloch]

Reading through this thread I didn’t see any mention of degassing. This is my first wine, but read another thread about wine degassing. Is this necessary, if so what are the steps?

 

[MaxSmart8699]

Reading through this thread I didn’t see any mention of degassing. This is my first wine, but read another thread about wine degassing. Is this necessary, if so what are the steps?

When you do degassing --- You do this a day to a week after when the yeast is done and you have re-racked and added whatever you chose to add as the stabilizer to keep the yeast inactive.

Then let it rest for a few days to resettle and re-rack then add, if not waiting for time, the clarifier.



Usually this is done with a type of stirring rod(like a winewhip) that attaches to a power drill. Run the drill in one direction for 20-30 seconds and then abruptly reverse the direction of the drill so that you’re agitating in the other direction. Switch directions every 20-30 seconds

Be careful not to agitate the surface of the wine too much. Doing this can expose your wine to too much oxygen.

Most kits recommend a total of about 2-6 minutes of degassing when using a power drill agitator. But it truly takes between 30min to an hour of agitating to completely degas a wine.

This is the most common way that I’ve seen.



You can also do the Vacuum method.



Or the time method the longer you let it set it will slowly degas this can take months or I’ve seen it take a month after the stabilizing.



Or there is the “splash” method not one I would recommend overall as it is the easiest to screw up and oxidize your batch.

 

[Kalaloch]

Thanks, that helps. I’ll try the time method. Did I miss where Yooper mentions this? Seems like an important note for first time wine makers.

 

[Kalaloch]

Sorry if this has been asked but does anyone know the original gravity on this using Yooper’s recipe (using Welches Frozen Grape juice concentrate and omitting the acidic blend).

 

[Kalaloch]

Couple of questions:

1.) @Yooper says to bottle when clear.
I’m unclear on what clear looks like for wine? I took this photo, does that look clear?

2.) i moved to secondary after 30 days but then it’s been sitting on that yeast cake (see photo) for an additional 2 months, is that ok?

3.) It’s been fermenting for a total of 3 months, do you think it ready to bottle?

4.) I just had a taste of it and it was HOT! I was shocked. It wasn’t as hot tasting as whisky or something like that but it was hot and not wine like. So do I need to water it down or will it mellow a lot in the bottle?

 

[Yooper]

1. No, that's not clear. You should be able to read a newspaper through it. If it's really really slow to clear (but it's not that long yet), you can use finings to help.

2. After 60 days, if there are lees, you can rack to a new jug/carboy. It shouldn't be aged on the lees.

3. It's done fermenting likely, but it's not clear. You could bottle it, but all of the crud that falls out will end up in the bottle and get resuspended in the wine so I wouldn't bottle it until it is clear, and no longer dropping lees.

4. It shouldn't be that hot- but yes, it will mellow a lot with some age.

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

^^ this but transfer to a clean carboy with campden/pot sorbate and a can of concentrate to sweeten/take the edge off.

 

[Maverickk]

I just wanted to keep this thread going.

Some additional flavors to the basic recipe that I have began to experiment with regarding the Welsh's recipe include...vanilla bean, toasted french oak and pure cherry extract. Given that the basic recipe is quite refreshing and one-dimensional - I wanted to see if I could build in some additional layers.

I also have found a concord concentrate supplier that sells bulk concentrate in 2.5 gallon
containers - the brix is higher than Welch's and much easier to work with. The result is a much richer deeper bodied concord wine.

I will never again use Welch's.

I just bottled 4 cases and am getting ready to get the next 4 case batch going. My problem is - I can't seem to stay out of it long enough to let it age!

I recently have come into about 2.5 gallons of 100% Concord Grape Juice Concentrate from - not Welch's. Looking at the bottle now it is a from a local place. Anyway, I see that you have some experience with concentrate that is not Welch's.

I was wondering a few things:
1. Did you change up the recipe at all for the type of concentrate?
2. Did you stick with the same ratios as the original recipe? (talking pectic enzymes/acid blend/yeast nutrient)
3. How big of a batch does the 2.5 gallons make? My guess is this depends on the concentrate? - if it does then I just follow what it says to make the juice, then add the sugar and such?

Just trying to make sure I dont waste a 5-6 gallon batch of this stuff. Granted it was free but still...

Thanks in advance!

 

[g1230g]

Yes, I have been using 2.5 gallon containers of concentrate instead of Welch's cans.

I have made maybe 3 or 4 batches over the past year or two - and out of the 4 batches - three turned out well using the standard Welch's recipe. The most recent batch did not turn out as I had wanted - for some reason I used a bit too much sugar and it turned out a bit sweet for my liking.

Any way to answer your questions:

- no I really did not change the recipe much but with a few exceptions
- yes, I stayed with about the same ratio's and amounts
- I did increase the pectic enzyme a small bit to compensate for the higher brix
- regarding the yeast nutrient and re-hydration (very important) - check out this link for yeast hydration and feeding instructions "https://www.morebeer.com/public/pdf/whydra.pdf"
- regarding the yeast I use Redstar Premier Cuvee due to its ability to withstand a longer fermentation - I also increased the amount of yeast to between 6.5 - 7.0 grams per 5 gallons (strength in numbers)
- 2.5 gallons makes roughly 48 bottles under normal conditions
- I would add acid blend to taste after second racking - be careful with this as it is easy to add too much acid as well as sugar

To sum up - don't add excessive sugar in the beginning, the hydration and feeding of the yeast are very important to encourage a long healthy fermentation...add acid blend in small amounts.

Certainly post any more questions - I am happy to share.

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

My wife is a big drinker of whites specifically sauvignon blanc. She is by no means a wine connoisseur and isn't very picky as her go to wine is the black box SB. If I use the white grape juice concentrate and use a white wine yeast say QA23 or HOZQ8-529 in the original recipe will that be comparable to a SB? Should I adjust the acid blend or any other ingredients?

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

While at the grocery I went ahead and bought 2 64oz white grape juice bottles. Unfortunately they did not have the frozen concentrate. Comparing the label for the juice vs frozen concentrate there are 12 servings at 38g sugar in 2 frozen cans and 16 servings in the bottled juice. So to make all things equal I need to use only 1.5 bottles of the juice to achieve the same sugar content of 2 frozen cans.

I'm assuming if I just go ahead and add both 64oz bottles I won't need as much sugar (for target OG 1.095?), but afraid it will end up tasting too much like grape juice in the end product? Thoughts?

 

[Yooper]

While at the grocery I went ahead and bought 2 64oz white grape juice bottles. Unfortunately they did not have the frozen concentrate. Comparing the label for the juice vs frozen concentrate there are 12 servings at 38g sugar in 2 frozen cans and 16 servings in the bottled juice. So to make all things equal I need to use only 1.5 bottles of the juice to achieve the same sugar content of 2 frozen cans.

I'm assuming if I just go ahead and add both 64oz bottles I won't need as much sugar (for target OG 1.095?), but afraid it will end up tasting too much like grape juice in the end product? Thoughts?

It should be ok, and not just grape-y I would think.

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

So how clear should I expected it to be before racking to secondary. The photo shows how much it has cleared since I pitched the yeast just over 2 weeks ago.

 

[Kalaloch]

I made this in January (6 months ago) and it still has not cleared up, it is cloudy and I cannot see through the wine. I transferred to secondary after 30 days and to Tertiary after 60 days. Do I just need to wait longer?

 

[Kalaloch]

Hi @Yooper any thoughts on how long this takes to clear up?

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

It's been 2 months since I started the batch in my previous posts. It was pretty clear after about 6 weeks.

 

[z-bob]

I bottled my last batch too early, so there's a good bit of sediment in the bottles. (at least most of them are punted bottles) But this is the first time I've added sulfites, and the wine is getting better with age instead of slowly getting worse. I'll drink it all within a year; there's a limit to how much aging is good for it, and this should peak pretty early. (it's half Concord juice and half Niagara with a little sugar)

 

[jimbostarr]

racking day today @ 31 days and the expected happened. The wine is quite clear and the SG is 1.010 and OG was 1.118 making an ABV of 14.148% The yeast choked out right @ Lalvin specs. ok I know my fault (too much sugar) I must learn how to follow instructions. But anyway, I tasted it and it is very sweet. Now is there anything I can do to fix this? or should I consider it a dessert wine?

I would fix it by adding EC1118 to it for another 30 days.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Couple of questions:

1.) @Yooper says to bottle when clear.
I’m unclear on what clear looks like for wine? I took this photo, does that look clear?

2.) i moved to secondary after 30 days but then it’s been sitting on that yeast cake (see photo) for an additional 2 months, is that ok?

3.) It’s been fermenting for a total of 3 months, do you think it ready to bottle?

4.) I just had a taste of it and it was HOT! I was shocked. It wasn’t as hot tasting as whisky or something like that but it was hot and not wine like. So do I need to water it down or will it mellow a lot in the bottle?

We're you able to get your wine bright?

 

[Kalaloch]

We're you able to get your wine bright?

Yep finally broke down and bought some clarifying agent (forgot the name) it is now very clear and ready to bottle, i snuck a taste and it is really delicious

 

[Whitney Enlow]

Hi all! New to the forum.

I have a question in regards to back sweetening. I plan to do this in a day or two (I have already added the campden and sorbate). My dilemma is this.. my primary is 1.4 gal and my secondary is 1 gal. I will need to rack the wine back into my primary in order to have the space to back sweeten. Is it going to be ok that I have some headspace for a day or two? Or would it be best if I just go ahead and bottle rather than waiting a day or two in order to ensure fermentation doesn't start back up? Thanks in advance for any feedback!

 

[z-bob]

Hi all! New to the forum.

I have a question in regards to back sweetening. I plan to do this in a day or two (I have already added the campden and sorbate). My dilemma is this.. my primary is 1.4 gal and my secondary is 1 gal. I will need to rack the wine back into my primary in order to have the space to back sweeten. Is it going to be ok that I have some headspace for a day or two? Or would it be best if I just go ahead and bottle rather than waiting a day or two in order to ensure fermentation doesn't start back up? Thanks in advance for any feedback!

How much wine do you have? Do you have any canning jars (for the overflow)? You can also just drink the excess.

 

[Kalaloch]

@wjenlow have you tasted it yet? I just did 1 Gallon and did NOT back sweeten. I have aged it for 3 months and it is really sweet for a wine, definitely not a dry wine. Maybe it was the yeast I used but you may like it unsweetened?

 

[Whitney Enlow]

@wjenlow have you tasted it yet? I just did 1 Gallon and did NOT back sweeten. I have aged it for 3 months and it is really sweet for a wine, definitely not a dry wine. Maybe it was the yeast I used but you may like it unsweetened?

It is definitely sweeter than I thought it was going to be.. I think I might end up leaving it as-is after all. Thanks for responding!

 

[mmb]

Hi all! New to the forum.

I have a question in regards to back sweetening. I plan to do this in a day or two (I have already added the campden and sorbate). My dilemma is this.. my primary is 1.4 gal and my secondary is 1 gal. I will need to rack the wine back into my primary in order to have the space to back sweeten. Is it going to be ok that I have some headspace for a day or two? Or would it be best if I just go ahead and bottle rather than waiting a day or two in order to ensure fermentation doesn't start back up? Thanks in advance for any feedback!

I backsweeten at bottling with a can of concentrate per 5G. Makes a nice table wine.

 

[Kalaloch]

Thanks Yooper just finished drinking my last bottle of this. Very happy for with the results for my first time making wine.

One question...
I’m not a wine connoisseur by any means but this wine did seem very *thin* or not a lot of *body*, not sure how to exactly explain it in wine speak, but is there a way to add more body to this next time?

 

[NeverDie]

@ Yooper: What a great thread this is!

I've started making my first wine fermentation using bread yeast and the OP instructions. From some googling I've read that the ideal fermentation temperature for bread yeast is 95F (but the same question applies--see below--about Premier Cuvee wine yeast). Being impatient, I want this fermentation to go as quickly as possible. Is there anything wrong with fermenting the wine at 95F? I'm able to control the "must" temperature to within 1F, and I can dial in any temperature that I want to. That's because I have the fermentation vessel sitting in a water bath, and I can control the water bath temperature to within 1 degree with a thermostat control and a temperature probe. I just wanted to be crystal clear that I'm *not* talking about ambient air temperature, but rather the temperature of the "must" itself.

Please advise, and thank you again for such a wonderful thread!

[Edit:
Here's the link about the optimal temperature for bread yeast (from its perspective) being 95F: (... sorry the forum software won't let me post the link because it thinks it may be spam). It also graphs how fermentation speed increases with temperature.

Of course, wine isn't bread, but wouldn't the yeast be happiest at the same 95F regardless of what the growth medium is? Well, I can only guess, which is why I'm asking.

When I've read forum posts about wine fermenting temperatures, the answers that typically get posted are of the form "Well, *I* like to ferment at X temperature, and so that's what I recommend for you." The trouble with that is that it's just some unknown guy's opinion, and for all I know he never tried a different temperature, or else maybe arrived at that conclusion from noisy data. So, what I'm looking for here is some science in the answer, not just a string of anecdotes.

The problem with looking at the spec sheet for a wine yeast (which I'll try in the next batch) is that it gives a fermentation *range*. It doesn't come out and say what the most optimal temperature is in that range. So, for example, the Premier Cuvee wine yeast (and I was going to post a link here to the specsheet, but again was prevented) has a temperature range of 45F-95F. But does that mean anything in that range is perfectly fine (in which case, why go slow when you can go fast), or is optimal near the midpoint, or....? ]

 

[Blacksmith1]

If you paste the links inline we can copy/paste them into the browser to get there.
Oh, and I cannot answer any of your questions