Warm Fermented Lager Thread

[Coastalbrew]

I use about 1/8 tsp, in keg then carefully rack the beer onto it. Close the keg up and purge the HS 3-5 times. it makes a significant difference with the hops for sure.

Do you think this would work similarly with bottling? Would it have any effects on the yeast and natural carbonation?

 

[Toxxyc]

Yes, it will slow down the yeast in the bottle. Ascorbic acid, of Vit C, is a strong antioxidant AND a preservative.

 

[cmac62]

Do you think this would work similarly with bottling? Would it have any effects on the yeast and natural carbonation?

With that small of an amount, it may have a minimal impact on the yeast. Maybe when bottling it would be better to use an equally small dose of kmeta instead. I haven't tried that, and I don't bottle unless it a really bid beer.

 

[Nubiwan]

Time does wonders to beer. That's it. If it's warm fermented lagers, cold fermenter lagers or even just plain Jane ales. Time does wonders to a beer, ANY beer (except the hop-forward ones to be enjoyed fresh). I've never made a beer where I said it tastes better fresh than 8 weeks down the line, after spending time in the bottle or keg.

So true, but I am always rather eager to see what my beer taste like, that it gets popped after a week bottle conditioning and carbonating. My pipeline is very rarely so big that I can let much beer sit around. Shoot, I am brewing today, so that I can open a bottle New Years Eve. My 4th batch in about 6 weeks. Maybe I have a drinking problem.

 

[Nubiwan]

Do you think this would work similarly with bottling? Would it have any effects on the yeast and natural carbonation?

I use a teaspoon of Ascorbic acid per 6 US gallons in an IPA I recently did. Sometimes throw it in my regular ales. Held the IPA aroma/taste well enough for 2-3 month's I had it in bottles. I observed no difference in my regular carbonation process, which is around 2/3 cup stirred into bottling bucket. Completely LODO (Lotsa Oxygen Damn Oxygen) process that I have.

 

[Nubiwan]

I use about 1/8 tsp, in keg then carefully rack the beer onto it. Close the keg up and purge the HS 3-5 times. it makes a significant difference with the hops for sure.

Hmm - I been using a teaspoon. I read 5grams somewhere for 5 gallons. Is 5 grams a teaspoon? Less? If such a small amount works, then I need to reconfigure my process.

 

[Toxxyc]

So true, but I am always rather eager to see what my beer taste like, that it gets popped after a week bottle conditioning and carbonating. My pipeline is very rarely so big that I can let much beer sit around. Shoot, I am brewing today, so that I can open a bottle New Years Eve. My 4th batch in about 6 weeks. Maybe I have a drinking problem.

Yeah I got more kegs than taps, and I still can't "get ahead", so to speak. I'm hoping to work in some brew days in early in the new year so I can have a few beers in kegs sitting and lagering in the lagering fridge at least for a few months so I don't have to tap them, but that's never been possible before either. The best way I can do it is to just not carbonate the beer. Keg it, purge O2 and slightly pressurize, but don't carbonate. Then it's flat and can't be poured

 

[Nubiwan]

Yeah I got more kegs than taps, and I still can't "get ahead", so to speak. I'm hoping to work in some brew days in early in the new year so I can have a few beers in kegs sitting and lagering in the lagering fridge at least for a few months so I don't have to tap them, but that's never been possible before either. The best way I can do it is to just not carbonate the beer. Keg it, purge O2 and slightly pressurize, but don't carbonate. Then it's flat and can't be poured

Self "Flat"ulation? Sounds painful.

 

[Toxxyc]

Self "Flat"ulation? Sounds painful.

I will never have all my taps dry, so there's that. I just enjoy lagering beers, and storing them flat seems to be the only way I get around to doing that.

 

[balrog]

I have however used S-189 warm several times, as well as some other lager yeasts. I pitch at ale rates, and I don't find I need to condition them for any extended period before the beer tastes very good

68F?
Pressurized or not? During whole ferment or not?
Curious.

 

[dmtaylor]

68F?
Pressurized or not? During whole ferment or not?
Curious.

No pressure. I feel the pressure thing is yet another placebo fad.

 

[balrog]

No pressure. I feel the pressure thing is yet another placebo fad.

Ok so just grab any Pilsner recipe, S189, ale pitch rate, and let it rip at 68F?

 

[dmtaylor]

Ok so just grab any Pilsner recipe, S189, ale pitch rate, and let it rip at 68F?

It will work. I just looked up the fermentation temperature. Mine ranged from 66-68 F, which was my basement temperature in the summer. It wasn't fruity, but could be, depending on your choice of HOPS.

 

[Sam_92]

Thanks @applescrap for starting this thread!!! I have always shied away from brewing lagers because I don't have a fermentation fridge. After reading through this thread I brewed my first lager, a single gallon batch and fermented it at ambient temp in my basement (about 64°F) with w34/75. I used that yeast slurry to brew 2.5 gallons of Lazy Lager I call it because I only boiled for fifteen minutesn and it turned out amazing! It's super clean and crisp but with a citrusy hop flavor that I love. I need to get another batch going for when lawn mowing season comes back around.

Then I took that yeast slurry and brewed a doppelbock at 7.6% and the primary fermentation on it was quick! I'm bottling it this weekend so I'll report back in a couple weeks.

I found it interesting that the first batch took an amazingly long time to drop clear (no finings) but the repitched batch dropped brilliantly clear in only a couple weeks. I think w34/75 likes being repitched and I'm planning on doing an Octoberfest with some of the slurry from the doppelbock.
Ip

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks @applescrap for starting this thread!!! I have always shied away from brewing lagers because I don't have a fermentation fridge. After reading through this thread I brewed my first lager, a single gallon batch and fermented it at ambient temp in my basement (about 64°F) with w34/75. I used that yeast slurry to brew 2.5 gallons of Lazy Lager I call it because I only boiled for fifteen minutesn and it turned out amazing! It's super clean and crisp but with a citrusy hop flavor that I love. I need to get another batch going for when lawn mowing season comes back around.

Then I took that yeast slurry and brewed a doppelbock at 7.6% and the primary fermentation on it was quick! I'm bottling it this weekend so I'll report back in a couple weeks.

I found it interesting that the first batch took an amazingly long time to drop clear (no finings) but the repitched batch dropped brilliantly clear in only a couple weeks. I think w34/75 likes being repitched and I'm planning on doing an Octoberfest with some if the slurry from the doppelbock.
Ip

You're not the first to mention this behaviour. A lot of dry yeasts are stressed from the drying process, so they do not perform best in the first generation. I read this about 3470 a few times now, makes me wonder if I should start collecting the sludge next time I brew with it.

 

[seatazzz]

You're not the first to mention this behaviour. A lot of dry yeasts are stressed from the drying process, so they do not perform best in the first generation. I read this about 3470 a few times now, makes me wonder if I should start collecting the sludge next time I brew with it.

I'm gonna beat a dead horse then. I use S23 for my WF lagers, and the ones done with fresh yeast are always a bit meh, even pitching two packets. 2nd, 3rd, and even unto 5th generations of the same yeast yield some spectacular beers. Dunno why. I think it's partly due to overpitching, since I'll use a whole jar of slurry for subsequent brews.

 

[Sam_92]

I bottled the doppelbock today and it tastes amazing! I saved two containers of w34/75 that I'm going to use for an Octoberfest and something to be determined, maybe a dunkel.

 

[Toxxyc]

I'm gonna beat a dead horse then. I use S23 for my WF lagers, and the ones done with fresh yeast are always a bit meh, even pitching two packets. 2nd, 3rd, and even unto 5th generations of the same yeast yield some spectacular beers. Dunno why. I think it's partly due to overpitching, since I'll use a whole jar of slurry for subsequent brews.

I found the same, yeah. Initial beers are fine, but always a bit "meh". I now, in my first beers, always clarify the wort before going into the fermenter, and then pitch the yeast onto pretty clear wort. The result is a very clean yeast cake, and I capture the whole lot of it. I'll typically split a slurry into about 3 parts, meaning I get 3 brews from a harvest. On the last pitch I'll also do a more neutral beer, again a clear wort, and capture the yeast cake again, repeating the process. It works well.

For interest sake, I once pitched an entire slurry of an unkown lager strain (it was just called "German Pilsner yeast") into a new batch and it fermented a full 23l of lager at 9°C to completion in 4 days

 

[enkamania]

I did a warm fermented pilsner with Krispy yeast from Escarpment. Should be ready in two more weeks.

 

[laurentobias]

Okay, sorry if this is off-topic, and I'm definitely showing my ignorance. I'd like to try a WF lager. My husband loves lagers, and I haven't tried one yet because I have no cold fermenting location.
1. I guess there are a lot of different types of lager, so I want to make sure I brew one we'll like. His favorite beer by far has been an authentic German beer we got at a beer garden in Munich. When you order either "light" or "dark." The marzens or helles I've bought have not been big hits. He's not a fan of Czech pilsners but will drink other pilsners. TBH I'm really still trying to learn how to navigate all the flavors in a beer - what flavor comes from the hops, from the yeast, from the grain bill, etc. Since this group clearly loves a lager, any help on what might be a good bet to brew is welcome.
2. Would love some guidance on a good extract recipe/kit for a WF lager.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Miraculix]

Okay, sorry if this is off-topic, and I'm definitely showing my ignorance. I'd like to try a WF lager. My husband loves lagers, and I haven't tried one yet because I have no cold fermenting location.
1. I guess there are a lot of different types of lager, so I want to make sure I brew one we'll like. His favorite beer by far has been an authentic German beer we got at a beer garden in Munich. When you order either "light" or "dark." The marzens or helles I've bought have not been big hits. He's not a fan of Czech pilsners but will drink other pilsners. TBH I'm really still trying to learn how to navigate all the flavors in a beer - what flavor comes from the hops, from the yeast, from the grain bill, etc. Since this group clearly loves a lager, any help on what might be a good bet to brew is welcome.
2. Would love some guidance on a good extract recipe/kit for a WF lager.

Thanks in advance!

That is quite an easy one actually. Use 100% pale or extra pale extract. Bittering hops @ 60 minutes and a small addition @ 15 minutes left your goal is 23-26 IBUs and an OG of about 1.045 to 1.05. Hops, anything noble, like Saaz, Hallertauer Mittelfrüh, Perle, or similar. Buy a pack of imperial harvest yeast, make shure it is fresh, no starter necessary. Chill the wort to below 20c, pitch the yeast and keep it as cold as possible, meaning into the basement with it, or something like that. You can place it into a waterbath to compensate for the heating that the yeast does during the first few days. This will be done in about ten days and ready to bottle.

 

[Beermeister32]

Okay, sorry if this is off-topic, and I'm definitely showing my ignorance. I'd like to try a WF lager. My husband loves lagers, and I haven't tried one yet because I have no cold fermenting location.
1. I guess there are a lot of different types of lager, so I want to make sure I brew one we'll like. His favorite beer by far has been an authentic German beer we got at a beer garden in Munich. When you order either "light" or "dark." The marzens or helles I've bought have not been big hits. He's not a fan of Czech pilsners but will drink other pilsners. TBH I'm really still trying to learn how to navigate all the flavors in a beer - what flavor comes from the hops, from the yeast, from the grain bill, etc. Since this group clearly loves a lager, any help on what might be a good bet to brew is welcome.
2. Would love some guidance on a good extract recipe/kit for a WF lager.

Thanks in advance!

Honestly, go find a used refrigerator on Craigs list. I pick these up for about $75 each. Warm fermented is “ok”, nothing beats a crisp cold lager that’s been fermented at 48-50F and lagered at 34F for 3 months! You will never go back!

 

[Miraculix]

Honestly, go find a used refrigerator on Craigs list. I pick these up for about $75 each. Warm fermented is “ok”, nothing beats a crisp cold lager that’s been fermented at 48-50F and lagered at 34F for 3 months! You will never go back!

I think quite some people on the thread here are disagreeing.

 

[balrog]

Honestly, go find a used refrigerator on Craigs list. I pick these up for about $75 each. Warm fermented is “ok”, nothing beats a crisp cold lager that’s been fermented at 48-50F and lagered at 34F for 3 months! You will never go back!

Honestly, I have the deepest respect and admiration for those with the fermentation space, lagering space, serving space, and inhuman patience to do this. I do not count myself in that group. But what I lack in patience I more than compensate for with irrepressible charm and indefatigable good looks.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I just fermented W-34/70 at room temperature for 5 days and its done, I've done this many times, now I will long carbonate this for 2 weeks cold so that helps also

 

[bwible]

I go against what many do. I do warm WF initially. Then transfer to a “secondary”. I really hate that word because its not a second fermentation. It’s a clearing or settling step. When a brewery does it, they call it a bright tank.

Anyhow I then move the secondary to cold storage right away in my kegerator for 2 weeks. At the end of 2 weeks I use gelatin because I want my lagers as brilliant clear as I can get them. I’m not a haze guy. I give the gelatin a couple days to work then transfer to the keg for serving. Again storing the keg cold after that and trying not to drink it right away. If it can sit for at least another 2 weeks that seems to be decent, but it seems to really improve after about a month.

My kegerator has space for 3 cornys and 2 taps so I use the extra space to keep an extra keg ready for when one kicks.

 

[bwible]

Honestly, I have the deepest respect and admiration for those with the fermentation space, lagering space, serving space, and inhuman patience to do this. I do not count myself in that group. But what I lack in patience I more than compensate for with irrepressible charm and indefatigable good looks.

Its not so much about time or patience for me - I have plenty of other beer I can drink while waiting for one more. Its the cost and equipment.

Besides our house fridge I have a basement fridge for bottles and a kegerator. So we’re basically running 3 fridges as it is. I can’t justify buying another fridge or freezer chest for lagering and if I did then my wife would want to put extra food in it.

Unitanks with glycol chillers are cool and all, but I haven’t hit the lottery yet to be able to buy that kind of setup. So I try to get by with what I have. I’m stealing space in my bottle fridge as it is for my hops and yeast, squirreling them in the back behind bottles.

The WF part solves the problem of not having the dedicated 50-55 space. I’ve been very happy with the results of WF 34/70 the couple times I’ve used it so far. I did a bunch of batches in 2020 trying to make psuedo lagers with different ale yeasts. None of the ale yeasts were even close to the WF 34/70 batches.

I’ve been thinking of trying to use the garage when its cold outside. It won’t be a constant temp all the time but it should work during the coldest months, say Jan and Feb. Thats what people did before they had refrigeration back when they were storing beer in caves. I didn’t do it this year but I’m thinking about it for next year.

 

[sweetcell]

currently fermenting:

• 89% canadian pils
• 9% munich I
• 2% acidulated
• all "African Aroma/Sublime Blend" hops, including 1 oz at 5 minutes and 1 oz flame-out/hop-stand per 5 gallons.
• 2 packs of rehydrated 34/70 per 5 gallons
• OG 1.059

pitched at 58 on saturday night, by tuesday morning the beers were hovering around 64. i don't expect them to rise any higher. for temp control i only have heating, no cooling, which works fine for ales in my 60*F basement. for these lagers i'm keeping the controller's target temp set one degree below the beer's actual/current temp, so the heating is a back-stop to ensure the temps don't drop much once the yeast stops producing its own heat. might dry-hop one keg with the african blend, tbd.

 

[Nubiwan]

I just finished my last few bottles of lager. It was generally based on a Czech pils recipe. Used S-23 yeast. Fermented at 58 degrees. My last dozen or so pints were marginally improved over those I had 3-4 weeks post packaging. More evidence of my lack of patience/pipeline to let the stuff age. I’d stand it up against any lager I buy in a restaurant or bar, which I guess is my “comparison bar”.

 

[Beermeister32]

I just finished my last few bottles of lager. It was generally based on a Czech pils recipe. Used S-23 yeast. Fermented at 58 degrees. My last dozen or so pints were marginally improved over those I had 3-4 weeks post packaging. More evidence of my lack of patience/pipeline to let the stuff age. I’d stand it up against any lager I buy in a restaurant or bar, which I guess is my “comparison bar”.

That's fantastic. Keep moving the ball downfield, next batch will be even better... Work on that pipeline. Great job!