Voss Kveik - OYL vs TYB

[RPh_Guy]

Is there a difference between these strains?

Does the TYB strain flocculate more?

(Omega vs the yeast bay)

Edit: I also found this from a posting:
"TYB Voss has an interesting almost spicy peppery aspect which is really magnified by Ekuanot hops, but not much fruitiness. Omega Voss actually has some of the orangey fruitiness I look for in kveik."

 

[WBB]

Not sure, but maybe get both and brew two identical recipes and pitch each one and see what happens. Might be a fun experiment. Actually it will be...you’re brewing beer!

 

[bigdawg86]

I've used TYB Voss Kviek in around 8 batches now. I find it has a pronounced citrus note. I ferment hot. Pitch 90, it free rises to 94, then crank to 96-100 once past peak krausen. I also find that every beer with kviek does not clear. It's hazy no matter how long it sits in the keg.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I’m getting ready to do a Saison split with 4 different yeasts in different fermenters. Does Voss really need temps in the 90’s?
I was planning on open fermenting them in the same heated chamber. My favorite is 565 that I usually start 65 and let it rise for 3 days and start turning it up to 75 on day 6. That said, isn’t Voss flexible enough to not go 90’s?

 

[RPh_Guy]

You can use Voss 65-75 and it'll be pretty clean, from my understanding. If you want the flavor, it needs to be higher, and a little underpitched.

However I'd like to know whether the different lab strains are the same
I'd like to use whichever gives getter orange flavor and flocculates better.
Split batches are good, but if someone already has the info it save me the trouble.
The omega is easier for me to get.

 

[NGD]

My Sig Voss is from TYB. That saison I brewed with it has significant orange notes. It was really underpitched as well

@RPh_Guy i’d probably go with Omega just based on your location

 

[NGD]

I’m getting ready to do a Saison split with 4 different yeasts in different fermenters. Does Voss really need temps in the 90’s?
I was planning on open fermenting them in the same heated chamber. My favorite is 565 that I usually start 65 and let it rise for 3 days and start turning it up to 75 on day 6. That said, isn’t Voss flexible enough to not go 90’s?

TYB’s site shows it from 70-100. You dont need to ramp it to 100, but you can! From my understanding it isnt as sensitive to temp fluctuations as many other types.

https://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/sigmunds-voss-kveik

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I’m getting ready to do a Saison split with 4 different yeasts in different fermenters. Does Voss really need temps in the 90’s?
I was planning on open fermenting them in the same heated chamber. My favorite is 565 that I usually start 65 and let it rise for 3 days and start turning it up to 75 on day 6. That said, isn’t Voss flexible enough to not go 90’s?

These are not the yeasts for a saison - all(???) kveiks are POF- so don't produce the phenolics that are typical of a saison. Voss will ferment at "normal" temperatures but as has been suggested above, don't expect it to give you much if you do. I've just bottled some Omega Voss fermented at 23C/74F and there was a pretty subtle marmalade note but nothing that obvious. Consensus seems to be that it needs to be much warmer than that to really get interesting.

As for differences between different commercial versions - this is not like Conan which seems to be highly mutable and which was kept at different breweries for decades before it emerged into the homebrew realm. All these companies have got it from essentially the same source within a few months of each other, so there's been little opportunity for the yeast to evolve apart. However, the original was a multistrain, so it's possible that different strains of the original multistrain have been selected. I also seem to remember something about ?Omega starting with more strains but then simplifying - don't quote me on that though. So what may have been true of experiments in the past may not be true today. Somewhere like Maniacal are more likely to do a multi-strain.

Oh, and the current Imperial seasonal, A43 Loki is probably one of the Voss strains if you believe the internet.

 

[RPh_Guy]

it's possible that different strains of the original multistrain have been selected.

Yeah IIRC the Voss culture had 4 similar yeast strains(?) in it. I'm wondering whether different labs picked different strains

I guess maybe they're all similarly good and I'm worried for nothing. MoreBeer now carries Omega, so I'll probably end up with that.

I really like fruity yeast in general and I'm looking forward to using it!

BTW, do strains at labs really drift very much? I heard that White Labs for example keeps their cultures on slants at minus 80°F deep freeze and will periodically reset any drift by pulling cells from the culture in stasis. Maybe other labs have a different process.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yeah IIRC the Voss culture had 4 similar yeast strains(?) in it. I'm wondering whether different labs picked different strains

It's quite possible - although they will all tend to be looking for similar characteristics, so it wouldn't be a randomised 1 in 4 chance thing.

do strains at labs really drift very much?

It certainly happens - people get sloppy, freezers have accidents etc - but the main differences happen in the different routes that yeast take to reach the homebrew labs. That certainly seems to have happened with Conan and Chico. But there is evidence of things changing under lab culture conditions, perhaps in the early days when things were less rigorous - neither WLP002 or 1968 quite have the oranginess of proper Fuller's yeast for instance.

 

[Dog House Brew]

These are not the yeasts for a saison - all(???) kveiks are POF- so don't produce the phenolics that are typical of a saison. Voss will ferment at "normal" temperatures but as has been suggested above, don't expect it to give you much if you do. I've just bottled some Omega Voss fermented at 23C/74F and there was a pretty subtle marmalade note but nothing that obvious. Consensus seems to be that it needs to be much warmer than that to really get interesting.

I thought I would run Voss with that same grain bill. I have never used any Kveik yeast.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

That's fine, I only queried the terminology so that you didn't expect a saison, they're very different.

 

[Dog House Brew]

That's fine, I only queried the terminology so that you didn't expect a saison, they're very different.

Appreciate that

 

[RPh_Guy]

I ended up using omega voss in a 50/40/10 pale/wheat/rye ale OG 1.052. Fermented 95-98°F & bottled at 5 days.

This is by far the cloudiest beer I've ever made but it tastes great. Not quite as fruity as I was hoping. I'll push it higher next time.
It's about as cloudy as an actively fermenting ale, even after cold conditioning. Weird.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Let us know if you ever go the Yeast Bay route, too. Shooting for that big orange/citrus flavor, too, myself.

 

[Miraculix]

I ended up using omega voss in a 50/40/10 pale/wheat/rye ale OG 1.052. Fermented 95-98°F & bottled at 5 days.

This is by far the cloudiest beer I've ever made but it tastes great. Not quite as fruity as I was hoping. I'll push it higher next time.
It's about as cloudy as an actively fermenting ale, even after cold conditioning. Weird.

My tyb voss kveik is clear but a bit too tart for my liking. It has citrus flavours.
I attribute it to the fact that I pitched at 100f (37c) and from there let it drop on its own without further control.
I also only pitched 1/3 of a vile without a starter.
It was heavily fermenting after 8h.
Next time, I will pitch at room temp and see if it gets less tart.

 

[NGD]

My tyb voss kveik is clear but a bit too tart for my liking. It has citrus flavours.
I attribute it to the fact that I pitched at 100f (37c) and from there let it drop on its own without further control.
I also only pitched 1/3 of a vile without a starter.
It was heavily fermenting after 8h.
Next time, I will pitch at room temp and see if it gets less tart.

My experience with TYB strain is almost opposite. Big orange flavor, cloudy (batch aging currently and haven’t crashed or added gelatin), and little to no tartness.

I did the opposite when it came time to pitch. Pitched at 75 and let free rise to mid 90’s. Currently looking at Omegas strain to test against. Would love to see a head to head between the two. Curious if anyone could tell the difference.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Just to clarify, in my one batch so far the Omega Voss absolutely tastes like oranges -- orange peel and marmalade.
No tartness.

I used a full packet with no starter. I wasn't monitoring s.g. but I think it finished on day 2.

I would definitely make this again, without the rye. And without my chiller failing and making it overly bitter from late hop additions. ...

 

[NGD]

For those that havent seen it. Props to Lars and his dedication to these yeasts http://www.garshol.priv.no/blog/393.html

No    Name    Kveik?    Aroma
#1    Sigmund    Yes    Spicy orange
#2    Rivenes    Yes    Spicy orange
#3    Stranda    Yes    Earthy banana and melon
#4    Muri    No    Sulphur, rubber, fruit
#5    Hornindal    Yes    Milky caramel, tropical fruit
#8    Saure    Yes    Funky
#9    Ebbegarden    Yes    Mango and pineapple
#16    Simonaitis    No    Phenolic, fruity

 

[Miraculix]

My experience with TYB strain is almost opposite. Big orange flavor, cloudy (batch aging currently and haven’t crashed or added gelatin), and little to no tartness.

I did the opposite when it came time to pitch. Pitched at 75 and let free rise to mid 90’s. Currently looking at Omegas strain to test against. Would love to see a head to head between the two. Curious if anyone could tell the difference.

Interesting.

I think temperature and pitch rate are key with those kveik yeasts. I am just not quite shure which factor changes which property of the final beer. My guess is that temperature fluctuation is making the yeast produce more acid, but it could also be lower pitch rates. We will see.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Note that Lars' list above refers to the original multistrains which often have bacteria that contribute all sorts of weird flavours like mushrooms and IIRC the caramel he gets with the original, non-commercial Hornindal.

 

[NGD]

Came across these tasting notes from The Mad Fermentationalist. Pretty interesting

 1. Voss, 40°C/100°F: Lager-like, doughy, citrus
2. Voss, 40C (underpitched): Clean, no sulfur, orange, fruity
3. Voss, 20°C/68°F: Sulfur+, smoother, less fruit
4. US-05, 20C: Darker color, stone fruit, cleanest
5. Muri, 20C: Light sulfur, brandy, peach, dry/bitter
6. Muri, 40C: Stone fruit, mild sulfur, bone dry

 

[couchsending]

These are not the yeasts for a saison - all(???) kveiks are POF- so don't produce the phenolics that are typical of a saison.

However it could be very interesting blended with a Saison yeast...

DuPont plus a little Voss fermented at 90 maybe? Have a similar effect as 3711 but probably way more interesting..

 

[Miraculix]

However it could be very interesting blended with a Saison yeast...

DuPont plus a little Voss fermented at 90 maybe? Have a similar effect as 3711 but probably way more interesting..

Emphasize should be on a LITTLE Voss. I pitched a third of a yeast bay veil into 17 l of 1.05 wort and it was going STRONG after only eight hours.

This yeast is a beast and will easily overtake everything I assume.

 

[couchsending]

Emphasize should be on a LITTLE Voss. I pitched a third of a yeast bay veil into 17 l of 1.05 wort and it was going STRONG after only eight hours.

This yeast is a beast and will easily overtake everything I assume.

It also doesn’t take much POF+ yeast to produce a significant amount of Phenols.. might have to pitch them at certain times? Or maybe even ferment separately and combine later?

 

[Miraculix]

It also doesn’t take much POF+ yeast to produce a significant amount of Phenols.. might have to pitch them at certain times? Or maybe even ferment separately and combine later?

I think that waiting with the kveik for one day after fermentation really started, and then underpitching like described would be a good idea. Wouldn't blend, as the kveik leaves more unfermentables than the saison .

 

[ccous]

I underpitched TYB Voss into 1.098 wort and let temps go rampant, temps got over 100. The beer is clean (no fusels or other off flavors) and the orange esters and flavor are definitely there.