vile vial instructions

[TheWeeb]

I know it is a nit, but in a rush to make a huge starter with White Labs Oktoberfest Lager WLP820 for a 15 gallon all-grain session this weekend I looked at the vial label for pitching instructions. It states ". . add vial to 5 gallons of aerated wort at 70 - 75 degrees . . .. the keys to good fermentation are aerated wort and keeping the temperature above 70 degrees."

For a LAGER yeast?

Now, I know a tiny bit better, as this is my third lager, so I stopped the process, cranked up the computer, went to the White Labs website, and of course for this particular strain "optimal fermentation temperature 52 - 58F" - my starter is now in the lagering fridge @ 55 degrees.

My point is that with a company the size of White Labs they should have the ability to print more specific labels on their vials rather than the generic "pitch" instructions found on this. After all, there are those new to brewing that may actually follow the vial and ruin a batch.

Off my rant now, thank you.

 

[sjbeerman]

According to Mr. Malty, he states to "keep starters between 65 F and 75. Lager yeast can be kept a few degrees cooler and ale yeast a few degrees warmer."

Based on this info, I would say that if you keep your ale yeast starters around 70 F then your lager will be ok around 65-67 F. It isn't necessary to have the lager yeast starter at the same temp that you will be fermenting. Although, there is certainly no harm in doing that, you will just get much slower growth and likely have healthier yeast. If you do maintain the lager starter at the same temp as the fermentation then I would certainly allow for the additional time.

 

[Pappers_]

+1 The Yeast book by Chris White and Jamil Z. offers the same advice for lager starters.

 

[TheWeeb]

very good points on the starter; however, that does not negate the fact that the vial instructions were for a 5-gallon batch

 

[remilard]

IMO, the advice yeast manufacturers give to home brewers is worthless attempts at appealing to the lowest common denominator. If you can, find the instructions they provide to commercial brewers for the same product. Often dramatically different.

 

[Kaz]

I would think that for a lager, you could make the starter, keep it at room temp for 12-24 hours. Then put it in the fridge to slow growth and get the yeast to drop out. Keep it in the fridge for 12-24 hours and then on brew day, bring it back out of the fridge and let it slowly warm up to pitching temp, decant off most of the starter beer, give a good swirl to re-suspend the yeast and pitch at whatever temp you desire? I would pitch cooler than ferm temp and let it rise to your desired ferm. temp and hold it there.

 

[Homercidal]

FWIW I made up a starter of this yeast on the stirplate at room temp, and then placed it in the fermentation chamber at the 54F the beer was going to be at. Then at pitching time I poured off the excess wort from the starter and pitched the cake. Seems to have worked fine after a fairly long lag (this yeast is known to start slow, plus my starter was not all THAT big, and I started low, as compared to some who get it started higher, then drop and add a D-rest later).

 

[wildwest450]

FWIW I made up a starter of this yeast on the stirplate at room temp, and then placed it in the fermentation chamber at the 54F the beer was going to be at. Then at pitching time I poured off the excess wort from the starter and pitched the cake. Seems to have worked fine after a fairly long lag (this yeast is known to start slow, plus my starter was not all THAT big, and I started low, as compared to some who get it started higher, then drop and add a D-rest later).

Sounds like you could lose a lot of yeast that way. I cold crash the crap outta my lager starters, they take a while to drop out.


_

 

[Homercidal]

I think it sat for about a week. The top portion was very clear by the time I use it.

 

[KyleWolf]

I will agree that starters need to be kept warmer, even lager starters. You are not worried about fermentation temp in your starter, you are worried about yeast propagation. And the best temp for yeast division is at least in the 70's

 

[theredben]

Those are just generic instructions. If you want to pay 1.00 extra for each vial because White Labs needs extra staff just to sort out labels, then send them an e-mail.

IMO, if you are only pitching 1 vial for a lager. Then you are probably better off pitching warm. At least the yeast has a chance that way.