Ok, so things got away from me brewing a barleywine today, and I ended up with an OG of 1.135. I just pitched a pack of US-05 (it's what I'd planned on, and I didn't have anything more suitable around), but I'm looking ahead to the point where it's 12% ABV and the yeast conk out with fermentation still to go. Should I just cross my fingers and hope the yeasts can handle it, or should I go find some backup yeast (and if so, what kind?) to pitch after they poison themselves? (For what it's worth, I will be bottling this when it's done.)
US-05 ... 1.135?
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1 pack at 1.135? What's your fermenter volume?
It's a 1-gallon batch in a 1.75-gallon fermenter (keg).
BrewnWKopperKat
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People talk about getting good results with US-05 outside the suggested limits. I'll tag @odie they talked recently about using US-05 for a 13% RIS (link).
For bottling, I'll suggest looking into a bottling yeast (like CBC-1). I've had good results with CBC-1 an occasional 10% Barleywine.
It might chew through it. But...take a few successive gravity readings before you even think about bottling it. You don't want bottle bombs.
Would it make sense to add the CBC to the fermenter a few days before bottling, to chew through anything the US-05 didn’t get to?
I’ve got a Tilt in the fermenter, so I’ll hopefully have a very good idea of when the gravity is steady.
I’ve got a Tilt in the fermenter, so I’ll hopefully have a very good idea of when the gravity is steady.
One pack of US-05 will do it on a 5 gal batch of that OG. It's been a solid performer for my RIS beers. But I leave it alone for 30 days before cold crash and kegging. Plus I'll add 1-2# of maple syrup to the keg and the yeast starts up again. Granted, it gets left alone for months to finish and mature in the keg.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
1 - pack for a 1.135 gravity 5 gallon batch? That doesn’t sound right to me. Isn’t the 1 pack only suggested up to a 1.075-1.080?
That has not been my experience. Your results might vary. What are your temps and how long did you let it ferment? Time is your friend on a high gravity beer.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
I use 2 packs on anything above 1.080. For my big Imperials around 1.120 I’ll rehydrate and do small 1/2L starter to get the yeast active before I pitch it. No matter what style I brew, I want to see a krausen forming by the 10 hr mark or earlier from pitch. I’ll ferment at 68-72*f and usually be within the last 10 gu points by day 5/6 but will certainly be at fg at 10 days and then I’ll age it another week or so.
Just because the beer is bigger, you don’t want it take off any slower or have it finish any later. That only opens you up to having yeast stress off flavors and potentials for infections
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No. CBC 1 cannot digest any longer sugars. It is basically like a wine yeast that can take high abvs but no longer sugars. It only can digest the carbonation sugar.
Nothing wrong with that either
It’s now down to 1.128 and dropping 1-2 points an hour, so I’m happy fermentation has kicked off well. I’ll plan on bottling with CBC-1. Can one overpitch bottling yeast? I’m using 1-L bottles so I could potentially put ~3 g in each bottle.
Usually the forum wisdom says a few grains per bottle so three grams seems too much.
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Cloud Surfer
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I bottle all my high ABV beer with CBC-1. For the 12%-13% RIS I do, I add 4g of CBC-1 to my 19L bottling keg. That is probably over pitching very slightly, but I call it insurance. I get beautiful carbonation within a week at that rate. 3g per bottle is way too much, but as far as I understand, it won't cause any problems except a lot of junk in the bottom of your bottles.
I just looked at the numbers. I'm doing the equivalent of 0.2g per 1-L bottle.
As these big beers are usually aged for a longer time, I would be afraid that autolysis kicks in with that big amount of yeast in the bottle, if really using three g per bottle.
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Cloud Surfer
Well-Known Member
Yes, autolysis was one consideration I was thinking about as I typed. Best not to over pitch and tempt fate.
And now I am wondering if my 12% copitched us05/Imperial Pub A 09 barley wine actually carbonated correctly... Hm.... Wasn't there any reason why not to have a 12%abv beer at ten in the morning? A yeah... Work.... I forgot.
Some brewers finish out high ABV barley wines with Champagne yeast. Not sure if it can ferment maltose though, anyone with experience doing this?
Usually no longer sugars for these wine guys....
So no worries about bottle bombs, it will only eat the sugar you add for carbination.
I read that there are actually some exceptions, that's why I would use something that I really know the properties of, like cbc-1 for example.So no worries about bottle bombs, it will only eat the sugar you add for carbination.
BrewnWKopperKat
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For CBC-1, Lallemand has a "best practices" guide:
There more "best practices" guides at Downloads – Lallemand Brewing
- CBC-1, LalBrew CBC-1™ – Cask & Bottle Conditioning Yeast | Lallemand Brewing
- then look for the technical data sheet section.
Here's an update. We're now at 1.044, which is just under 70% attenuation and ~12% ABV. Gravity is still dropping consistently a point per day. I worry the yeast are pretty unhappy at this point, but maybe that was to be expected. I've got the CBC ready to go when I do decide to bottle, and it's going into EZ-Caps, which supposedly have a rating in excess of 100 psi.
Incidentally, I'm fermenting a second barleywine with Nottingham, and it went from 1.128 to 1.027 in about a week.
Incidentally, I'm fermenting a second barleywine with Nottingham, and it went from 1.128 to 1.027 in about a week.
You only need a few grams of yeast for bottling. You could pitch about 3/4 of the packet of CBC-1 now and let it attenuate the beer some more. (Be sure to seal up the remainder of the yeast in the packet and refrigerate). Then use the remainder for bottling. IIRC, CBC-1 has an alc tolerance of 14%.
fwiw, I once started a barley wine with a huge US05 overpitch and while doing the CS feeding routine it eventually made it to 15% ABV.
I learned brewing 10 gallons of barley wine when no longer bottling wasn't my best idea and eventually got so tired of it I dumped the last half of the second keg...
Cheers!
I learned brewing 10 gallons of barley wine when no longer bottling wasn't my best idea and eventually got so tired of it I dumped the last half of the second keg...
Cheers!
Yeah, 3 gallons of BW seems to be my limit for batch size. A little goes a long way.
BrewnWKopperKat
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"CS feeding routine" is new to me. Can you add some additional informaiton so I can web-search it?
Ah - sorry, should have elucidated a bit. CS = "Corn Sugar", which is commonly added in portions for such high ABV recipes as fermentation progresses. One doesn't want to overwhelm the yeast, so it's usually something like a 1/2 pound added per day or every other day or something similar. In my case for a 10 gallon batch, but I've read folks doing 5 gallon batches with 1/2 lb additions as well.
Ideally you stop the additions such that the resulting ABV is right where the yeast finally give up - one does need to do gravity testing to make sure the yeast are still working and haven't killed themselves
Cheers!
Ideally you stop the additions such that the resulting ABV is right where the yeast finally give up - one does need to do gravity testing to make sure the yeast are still working and haven't killed themselves
Cheers!
let it ride. I don't even bother taking an RIS gravity reading at less than a month. I bet it will drop some more.
Down to 1.041, then level for a few days. I bottled it in EZ-Caps with a target of 1.8 volumes, so even if it has some more sugar in there, it's probably going to be fine. Now I just need to wait 6-12 months before tasting it...
Good luck with that. LOL
I hope it was finished. If you didn't need the fermenter immediately I would have sat on it a bit longer to be sure.
But can you stand to wait 6-12 months is the real question...LOL
I hope it was finished too! I stashed it in the corner of my garage, where it will be relatively small mess and danger if it explodes, and where I might be able to keep it tucked away for 6-12 months.
I made a trippel that I was supposed to wait six months on. For testing purposes I opened my first one at one month. I tested a few more later too.
I did the same with my barley wine... It gets better and better. Luckily small bottles, so the number of bottles left is still quite a lot.
VikeMan
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At 1.044, down from 1.135, there was likely nothing left for CBC-1 to use, as it can't metabolize maltotriose.
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