Upgrade fermenter help please

[bailey mountain brewer]

That looks like their original, same one I have just smaller version. Pretty decent fermenter, only thing I'll mention is batch size and cooling, meaning if your batch size is to small the coil may not reach enough of the wort/beer to effectively cool it. There is a chart somewhere that shows how much of the wort will be in contact with the coil based on fermenter size vs volume of liquid in said fermenter. I do not have that chart on hand at the moment though. This particular one appears to be well equipped with a decent amount of doodads... you may come across certain things that you may want to add but that would be ready to rock for you with what's included.

 

[Willy]

Here some more pix. Comes with CIP ball cleaner, sample port, therm port, pressure gauge and a CO2 post for pressure fermenting too. Looks like the coil goes down pretty deep.

 

[Deadalus]

Here some more pix. Comes with CIP ball cleaner, sample port, therm port, pressure gauge and a CO2 post for pressure fermenting too. Looks like the coil goes down pretty deep.

Are you trying to convince yourself that a smaller batch will also work in there? How big is the hot side of your system? I can brew 10 gallon batches but I don't very often since I would need to drink twice as much of the same beer.

That's not a spunding valve though I don't think. It's get a gas post on the back, a prv, and a pressure gauge. I don't think your prv has anything to set the pressure. The spike spunding valve is slightly different but not 100% certain it hasn't been modified over time.

I would look at a new one and compare the extra components as far as price. I think offhand you maybe have the base added and the coil but as I mentioned earlier, each company has base accessories and those vary from each.

 

[Willy]

Are you trying to convince yourself that a smaller batch will also work in there? How big is the hot side of your system? I can brew 10 gallon batches but I don't very often since I would need to drink twice as much of the same beer.

That's not a spunding valve though I don't think. It's get a gas post on the back, a prv, and a pressure gauge. I don't think your prv has anything to set the pressure. The spike spunding valve is slightly different but not 100% certain it hasn't been modified over time.

I would look at a new one and compare the extra components as far as price. I think offhand you maybe have the base added and the coil but as I mentioned earlier, each company has base accessories and those vary from each.

I cook on a Brewzilla Gen 4 which can brew 10+ gal with extensions (I don't have it, but it is available. I think I could do an 8 gallon batch with the BZ Gen 4, but never tried.

I was thinking of doing mostly 5-6 gal batches, with about 15% being bigger 10 gal batches (for pilsners and lager which have a 6 week conditioning time frame)

What current Spike model would I compare it to? A CF-15?

I really need to go see what he actually has. The request is out and I'll report back after I had a chance to see it and all the optional add-ons he has.

 

[Broken Crow]

Are you trying to convince yourself that a smaller batch will also work in there?

I was gonna ask the same thing only the other question I have is; Will this larger unit fit in the ferm cahmber you have?

 

[Willy]

I was gonna ask the same thing only the other question I have is; Will this larger unit fit in the ferm cahmber you have?

I think a smaller batch should do fine in that fermenter, but I don't know.

I doubt that Spike fermenter would fit in the chamber. Very small footprint in this freezer due to the shelf on the side above the compressor. About 27" high but the footprint base is just 16*13 - so it fits a bucket or a 6.5g corny, 5 g corny.

 

[Broken Crow]

Just a suggestion: Take a big step back for the moment and take a look at the dimensions of your candidate, wether with the dump-valve, or a brewbucket type and what type of attachments you may want or need on the top and wether or not you will be compelled to upgrade your ferm cahmber as well.
Take your time as this is for the long run because if you choose any of the Spike variants; the fermenter will outlive you, the ferm chamber likely won't.

 

[jdubdvdt]

After swapping to 1/4bbl kegs as a fermenter I am pretty happy. I am making 6.5 gallon batches now, lose about 1/2 gallon from trub and I keg the rest (5 gal corny and a 1 gal mini keg to give a friend)

I will probably modify the sanke opening for a larger tri clamp, but for now it works for pressure fermentation and pressure transfer. I paid $40 for the keg from a brewery that was closing permanently and $45 for the sanke ball lock adapter and $30 for a floating dip tube. Solid win for now. Will be welding a 4 or 6" diameter ferrule in the future.

I would love a spike system but I can't beat the investment here in my opinion.

 

[Willy]

Just a suggestion: Take a big step back for the moment and take a look at the dimensions of your candidate, wether with the dump-valve, or a brewbucket type and what type of attachments you may want or need on the top and wether or not you will be compelled to upgrade your ferm cahmber as well.
Take your time as this is for the long run because if you choose any of the Spike variants; the fermenter will outlive you, the ferm chamber likely won't.

Excellent comments. My ferm chamber is a $40 FB used small freezer with a top door. Dimensions for a bucket or corny - no way the SS conical I am looking for will fit. Good as dead. Ha.

My rationale for going SS CF - I think it will make better tasting beer. A bucket doesn't have the hop/finings dropping with ease, or no oxy pressure transfers. I don't know, but I think the SS will make beer cleaner tasting. I did notice an upgrade while corny keg fermenting (I used a float ball in the beer out) . Coincidence ? But fermenting in the corny kegs has been a positive improvement.

The added size is more a feature than a bug to me. Why not do 10 gal batches on my "gotta have" beers and save some time. Shouldn't take much longer to double the batch on a single brew day (it takes me 5 hours usually, so I would save some time)

 

[Broken Crow]

I suspect we have parallel logic (gen X by any chance?) ..except in this:

My rationale for going SS CF - I think it will make better tasting beer.

My first exposure to homebrew was in the late 80's early 90's and I often tasted the plastic in the beer, but since the 'great exposee" on poorly formulated PET water bottles in the later 90's I have noticed and begrudgingly went out of my way to experience beers made in modern PET fermenters....I'm specifying PET such as Fermonsters, Fermzillas, Vinage Shop carboys and so on, as I still occasionally taste HDPE, and yes, I expect flames for saying that but honestly without bragging; I have a very sensitive and analytical palate.
If you feel like trying out a stepping stone; buy a Fermonster or Fermzilla and give it a try; If you can taste the plastic: Get back to me and I will refund you $40 via paypal or Interac e-transfer (if you have that in the US)....and if you haven't guessed from my blatant posts; I live on a very restricted budget, but such is my faith in these things...they are indistinguishable from glass-carboy fermented beer.
I do though, also strongly support getting a larger one even if it is only used occasionally. For myself, I have a couple of sankes with my own Fermhead for closed transfers and if needed; pressure fermenting and I have a gen 1 14.something Gallon Fermzilla I bought because I felt drawn to a pressure capable conical with a dump valve but can't afford SS and now I'm still kicking myself for not getting an All-rounder...the physical use of the fiddly dump-valve is more work than reward for my disabled body....in fact, if you decide to spend a long time in choosing: If for any reason you feel like visiting Canada, I'm about 5 minutes from either the bridge or tunnel from Detroit: Bring me a used corny keg or sanke for trade and you can have thing.
I'm only unhappy with the dump valve, the taste is perfect and uncontaminated.

 

[mac_1103]

I'm specifying PET such as Fermonsters, Fermzillas, Vinage Shop carboys and so on, as I still occasionally taste HDPE, and yes, I expect flames for saying that but honestly without bragging; I have a very sensitive and analytical palate.

You taste HDPE in beer fermented in PET? That certainly is a very sensitive palate!

 

[Willy]

I suspect we have parallel logic (gen X by any chance?) ..except in this:

My first exposure to homebrew was in the late 80's early 90's and I often tasted the plastic in the beer, but since the 'great exposee" on poorly formulated PET water bottles in the later 90's I have noticed and begrudgingly went out of my way to experience beers made in modern PET fermenters....I'm specifying PET such as Fermonsters, Fermzillas, Vinage Shop carboys and so on, as I still occasionally taste HDPE, and yes, I expect flames for saying that but honestly without bragging; I have a very sensitive and analytical palate.
If you feel like trying out a stepping stone; buy a Fermonster or Fermzilla and give it a try; If you can taste the plastic: Get back to me and I will refund you $40 via paypal or Interac e-transfer (if you have that in the US)....and if you haven't guessed from my blatant posts; I live on a very restricted budget, but such is my faith in these things...they are indistinguishable from glass-carboy fermented beer.
I do though, also strongly support getting a larger one even if it is only used occasionally. For myself, I have a couple of sankes with my own Fermhead for closed transfers and if needed; pressure fermenting and I have a gen 1 14.something Gallon Fermzilla I bought because I felt drawn to a pressure capable conical with a dump valve but can't afford SS and now I'm still kicking myself for not getting an All-rounder...the physical use of the fiddly dump-valve is more work than reward for my disabled body....in fact, if you decide to spend a long time in choosing: If for any reason you feel like visiting Canada, I'm about 5 minutes from either the bridge or tunnel from Detroit: Bring me a used corny keg or sanke for trade and you can have thing.
I'm only unhappy with the dump valve, the taste is perfect and uncontaminated.

Considered the fermzilla half step months ago and worried it was gonna die in 2 years as the plastic was past its shelf life. That said, for many (most?) it is an excellent option.
Gen X? I am so old I don't know what that is, so I guess I am a boomer. Born in the 50s. Old. But spry enuf to brew weekly.
Thinking a 1/2 bbl sanke makes mucho sense and leaves change in your pocket.

 

[Broken Crow]

You taste HDPE in beer fermented in PET? That certainly is a very sensitive palate!

Naw..some other brewers' repurposed HDPE buckets that have begun to degrade. ..sorry I wasn't clear on that.

 

[Deadalus]

I cook on a Brewzilla Gen 4 which can brew 10+ gal with extensions (I don't have it, but it is available. I think I could do an 8 gallon batch with the BZ Gen 4, but never tried.

I was thinking of doing mostly 5-6 gal batches, with about 15% being bigger 10 gal batches (for pilsners and lager which have a 6 week conditioning time frame)

What current Spike model would I compare it to? A CF-15?

I really need to go see what he actually has. The request is out and I'll report back after I had a chance to see it and all the optional add-ons he has.

I counted once I do about 10% 10 gallon batches on my keggle system.

I wasn't too interested in Spike conicals when I was shopping. I was holding out for a jacketed conical. I could have gotten a SS Brewtech 10 gallon sized one but I got two of the Brewbuilts but non-jacketed, Spike I am pretty sure is using five gallon batch sizes as the number after CF so that 13 is probably the CF10. It couldn't be the CF15. I couldn't find a chart laying it out but on their compare tab they do say that there current lineup is half batch capable. Given that I won't play devil's advocate regarding batch size.I am not sure what generations Spike may have had.

The picture of a CF10 shows two butterfly valves, a thermometer, a blowoff elbow, and a sampling valve. Anything in the options section with a price you don't get. Not sure about a prv or a thermowell. Any blank ports I would assume they put a plug and clamp. The Spike butterfly valve seems to have a good reputation, and getting a second one is nice. Quality prv's are around $50. The one you are looking at has one, not sure it's standard but I didn't see it in the pulldown. The item I was calling the Spike spunding valve is called an all in one prv.

Not at all trying to steer you towards Brewbuilt, but if you look at this page the specs are better laid out. https://brewbuilt.com/products/brewbuilt-x1-uni-conical-fermenter.html
But my X2 came with a thermowell, blowoff elbow, it has a built in prv in the lid (mediocre), one 2" dump butterfly valve, a sampling valve, and a neoprene jacket. No elbow, no second butterfly valve. When you are looking at used conicals, it helps to know what accessories were standard and then if the person is selling it with add-ons. The Spike all-in-one prv is $150. Someone getting out of the hobby may be letting go a great bargain if they have discounted the unit used and throwing in that all-in one. I have seen several where the seller explicitly says they are keeping it! A CF10 by the way is currently $775 with no additional accessories. I like to personally know what the included accessories are/were without asking. The seller might realize if you ask that they paid extra at that point. Or they might not tell the truth. The neoprene jacket, leg extensions, shelf, and coil are all extras, more than like the pressure gauge and its attachments, and probably the thermowell.

 

[ITV]

Okay... Interesting. This just popped up on FB market place. Looks to be an older Spike 13 gallon? Comes with a bunch of stuff including some glycol (2 g) and a container/hoses for temp control. Is this a good Spike model? He wants $750 for the bundle. I want to at least look at it - please share your thoughts if you can. Thanks.

That is the older CF10 which is designed for 10 gallon batches, hence capable of holding 13 gallons. I have that model and spent around $700 without the gycol stuff, I use a dedicated upright freezer for temp control with a inkbird probe in the thermowell.
I like my Spike conical, no complaints and I regular do 10 gallon batches and do not have any issues with 5 gallon batches (keep in mind I do not have the chiller coil).

 

[Willy]

Just returned from checking out the used SB CF-10 shown above. It was as expected in great shape and came with lots of options including a blow off, a PRV, gas post, pressure gauge, an extra pump (nice one), CIP ball, a TC with barb, thermo wall, leg extensions and bottom plate, TC chiller coils, glycol w. pump and tubing, basically all I wanted with some extra misc.

Just looked and told him I needed to think about it, which means being able to "sell" it to the sweet woman of the house. Still mulling over myself but heck yeah... Nice.
Any comments or thoughts to consider is always appreciated.

 

[ITV]

Just returned from checking out the used SB CF-10 shown above. It was as expected in great shape and came with lots of options including a blow off, a PRV, gas post, pressure gauge, an extra pump (nice one), CIP ball, a TC with barb, thermo wall, leg extensions and bottom plate, TC chiller coils, glycol w. pump and tubing, basically all I wanted with some extra misc.

Just looked and told him I needed to think about it, which means being able to "sell" it to the sweet woman of the house. Still mulling over myself but heck yeah... Nice.
Any comments or thoughts to consider is always appreciated.

When I bought my CF-10, I opted to ask for forgivness later as opposed to ask my wife for permission beforehand.
I'm still glad I purchased it as it has proven to be a quality fermenter.

 

[Willy]

When I bought my CF-10, I opted to ask for forgivness later as opposed to ask my wife for permission beforehand.
I'm still glad I purchased it as it has proven to be a quality fermenter.

Thankfully, my sweet woman will be fine but did ask - where will you put it? She doesn't drink but does enjoy tasting each batch and provides excellent feedback. I suspect I will be able to have him throw in an extra corny keg or two and maybe a beer gun. He's done making beer and quit drinking, proving the new Spike ad motto - Your liver will give out before our equipment breaks down. Haha

 

[Broken Crow]

Thankfully, my sweet woman will be fine but did ask - where will you put it? She doesn't drink but does enjoy tasting each batch and provides excellent feedback. I suspect I will be able to have him throw in an extra corny keg or two and maybe a beer gun. He's done making beer and quit drinking, proving the new Spike ad motto - Your liver will give out before our equipment breaks down. Haha

Fait accompli? ...will we see any pics soon when you get it home and look forward to your next thread about the larger ferm-chamber?

 

[ITV]

Thankfully, my sweet woman will be fine but did ask - where will you put it? She doesn't drink but does enjoy tasting each batch and provides excellent feedback. I suspect I will be able to have him throw in an extra corny keg or two and maybe a beer gun. He's done making beer and quit drinking, proving the new Spike ad motto - Your liver will give out before our equipment breaks down. Haha

I forgot to mention one important detail, I have been married for over 35 years so asking for forgivness afterwards is much safer than someone married for a shorter amount of time.
Room for setup and storage is an important consideration, since you are looking at a gycol system consideration for family pets is important as a gycol leak could be deadly.
For my situation, I store my CF10 inside my upright freezer (fermentation chamber) which also doubles as an extra fridg or freezer when hosting gatherings and additional freezer/fridge space is needed.

 

[Willy]

Fait accompli? ...will we see any pics soon when you get it home and look forward to your next thread about the larger ferm-chamber?

Not a fair accompli yet. Gonna just think on it a few days over beers. It was sweet and would be useful, esp for double sized batches (oooooo, 10g vs 5g. Haha). It'll be in the garage for temp controlled batches or inside for ales if I need room temps . Speaking of dogs, my husky loves fresh wort and always wants a cooled down sample.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I love my cf10, I have had it for several years now. The only upgrades I made were buying a blowing tube, stainless steel and the new style lid. When I bought the fermenter it only had the four inch top TC and one 1.5 inch. Having two extra 1.5" ports is better.

You won't go wrong with the Spike.

 

[GoeHaarden]

Anyone out there have any experience with the jacketed Brewtool Mini Uni + fermenter?

Built a glycol chiller with anticipation of getting a jacketed conical, but like OP I can't make a decision on this.

Having zero conical experience and reading that the majority of people, or at least it seems, don't actually trub dump or even use the bottom port has got me questioning a conical now. If spike made a jacketed Flex I'd be all over it. The Mini Uni + looks like a decent in-between, but there isn't a lot of user related info out there.

 

[Willy]

Anyone out there have any experience with the jacketed Brewtool Mini Uni + fermenter?

Built a glycol chiller with anticipation of getting a jacketed conical, but like OP I can't make a decision on this.

Having zero conical experience and reading that the majority of people, or at least it seems, don't actually trub dump or even use the bottom port has got me questioning a conical now. If spike made a jacketed Flex I'd be all over it. The Mini Uni + looks like a decent in-between, but there isn't a lot of user related info out there.

The flex + jacket is part of the temp control package - so yeah, Spike has a jacket for the flex.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Anyone out there have any experience with the jacketed Brewtool Mini Uni + fermenter?

Built a glycol chiller with anticipation of getting a jacketed conical, but like OP I can't make a decision on this.

Having zero conical experience and reading that the majority of people, or at least it seems, don't actually trub dump or even use the bottom port has got me questioning a conical now. If spike made a jacketed Flex I'd be all over it. The Mini Uni + looks like a decent in-between, but there isn't a lot of user related info out there.

The BrewTool looks very interesting and certainly affordable for anyone considering buying a stainless conical. It's got some great features. Since it's fairly new I'm not certain anyone has experience with it but most folks that own a conical could comment on it's features. I like it but I'm sticking with my cf10.

I do drop trub with mine, not to save it. A few days before I plan to keg I clear some of the trub out from the cone. That way I get more clear beer out. Sometimes there's a lot of junk in there. When I take a sample from the side port I can tell if I need to dump.

That bottom port is used for cleaning too.

 

[GoeHaarden]

The flex + jacket is part of the temp control package - so yeah, Spike has a jacket for the flex.

I was more referring to a glycol jacket for active chilling. The neoprene jacket is a must though for condensation.

 

[GoeHaarden]

The BrewTool looks very interesting and certainly affordable for anyone considering buying a stainless conical.

Looking into the Mini Uni more one thing that gets me is that it is completely bare bones. Whereas, most of the conicals these days come with almost all accessories to start using it out of the box.

So by time I add all the fittings, valves, apr, neoprene sleeve I'm getting close to $8-900 anyways. Maybe not as budget friendly as I initially thought. Still curious about them though...

Am I missing something or do you have to spend a lot of money on more fittings and whatnot for conical too? Looks like they all come with just about everything...

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Looking into the Mini Uni more one thing that gets me is that it is completely bare bones. Whereas, most of the conicals these days come with almost all accessories to start using it out of the box.

So by time I add all the fittings, valves, apr, neoprene sleeve I'm getting close to $8-900 anyways. Maybe not as budget friendly as I initially thought. Still curious about them though...

Am I missing something or do you have to spend a lot of money on more fittings and whatnot for conical too? Looks like they all come with just about everything...

Just buying the conical is one thing but you still need to connect it to other pieces of equipment. The conical will most likely have TC, tri-clover sanitary fittings on it so you're going to need the other half, a gasket and clamp. Some of that may come with the conical, check to be sure. Buy extra gaskets too.

If you're adapting to NPT fittings you'll need pieces there too.

My Spike has TC fittings but I adapted the other ends to threaded Camlock QD's as that's what I have on my chiller, pumps and hoses, as well as brew kettle, mash tun and filtering grant.

All those extra fittings add up the initial cost but they are necessary items.

Check out Brew Hardware"s site, Equipment/Fittings for a great overview of what you can invest in.

 

[Willy]

Well.... I pulled the trigger yesterday and brought the beautiful Spike CF-10 home. So many add-ons - I think I hit the jackpot and saved myself a bunch of pain by not needing add-on accessories. In addition to the fermenter - I got a 1 1/2" tri-clamp 1) sample valve, CIP, carb stone, sight-glass, butterfly valve for hop drops, PRV gas post, ... Temperature control system and a full jug of glycol new and 2 gallon of glycol/water mix, silicone hoses (so many bonus hoses, tubing!) submersible pump for cooling, a few really nice pumps for transfers, jacket... Extra clamps and gaskets... I added it all up and it was well over 2k of spike gear, and about 1k of misc stuff (glycol, ~120' of misc. silicone tubing - brand new still in original bag.

My only upgrades were - the newer 3 port ( w/ 3 1 1/2" ports) and a few inexpensive items for connectors. Total outlay? $700.

Today and tomorrow will be spent in deep cleaning. (It has sat idle for a year) ... Pictures coming soon - be patient. Got get get my girl Coney the Conical looking spiffy.
Then I will need to finish up the cooling set-up using my keezer (set at 40° F) as cooling source, just need to drill a few holes in the collar and run power to sub. pump and tubing.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice. I suspect that a new Spike Brewing maniac has been created out of the trub ooze. And Spike is from Milwaukee. Bonus.

Comment from the better half... Who said it was okay but when I brought it home... OMG that thing is huge! What is this? A science lab? Oh ... They are from Milwaukee ... Cool.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Well.... I pulled the trigger yesterday and brought the beautiful Spike CF-10 home. So many add-ons - I think I hit the jackpot and saved myself a bunch of pain by not needing add-on accessories. In addition to the fermenter - I got a 1 1/2" tri-clamp 1) sample valve, CIP, carb stone, sight-glass, butterfly valve for hop drops, PRV gas post, ... Temperature control system and a full jug of glycol new and 2 gallon of glycol/water mix, silicone hoses (so many bonus hoses, tubing!) submersible pump for cooling, a few really nice pumps for transfers, jacket... Extra clamps and gaskets... I added it all up and it was well over 2k of spike gear, and about 1k of misc stuff (glycol, ~120' of misc. silicone tubing - brand new still in original bag.

My only upgrades were - the newer 3 port ( w/ 3 1 1/2" ports) and a few inexpensive items for connectors. Total outlay? $700.

Today and tomorrow will be spent in deep cleaning. (It has sat idle for a year) ... Pictures coming soon - be patient. Got get get my girl Coney the Conical looking spiffy.
Then I will need to finish up the cooling set-up using my keezer (set at 40° F) as cooling source, just need to drill a few holes in the collar and run power to sub. pump and tubing.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice. I suspect that a new Spike Brewing maniac has been created out of the trub ooze. And Spike is from Milwaukee. Bonus.

Comment from the better half... Who said it was okay but when I brought it home... OMG that thing is huge! What is this? A science lab? Oh ... They are from Milwaukee ... Cool.

Congratulations!

Sounds like a great haul, and better yet an understanding wife! All huge bonuses while we pursue our hobbies!