Tubing length keg question

[mikeljcarr]

So, I had severe foaming problems and learned from posts here that my tubing (3/16") was too short, about 3' long. I thought, from what I read hear, that I needed to increase the length to around 6'. I've done this and the foaming is better, but still too much (half the glass is head). So, before I swag at the proper length again again, can anyone offer some thoughts on how to achieve the best set up.

2- 5 gal soda kegs
Kept around 45"
12-14 psig

 

[D-Train]

10 foot lines at 14 psi here, and I still wish I had an extra 5 feet on the lines to slow the pour. Then again I think I like my beer a little more effervescent than most.

 

[Rockn_M]

I went about 10 feet for each tap.

You also might want to look into a fan to blow the cold fridge air up into the tap tower. This will keep the beer in the tower cooler and less likely to have the co2 escape in the form of foaming.

 

[jmcquesten]

This will give you the exact length you need. It might tell you a crazy number like 16 feet, but trust it, it's correct.
http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

 

[tmendick]

I went about 10 feet for each tap.

You also might want to look into a fan to blow the cold fridge air up into the tap tower. This will keep the beer in the tower cooler and less likely to have the co2 escape in the form of foaming.

The consensus seems to be about a foot of 3/16 per PSI. Even with that, the temperature stratification of a kegerator with a tower, especially, plays a huge role on foam. Some people have found the tower to being up to 55 degrees, a computer fan will help recirculate the cold air and reduce the temp swing.
Will all that being said, on the first pour after sitting for awhile, I still usually pour about 2-3 oz and dump that or get another glass and drink the foam glass after it settles.

 

[Gavin C]

My setup from keg connection came with 5' of beer line already setup with Oetiker clamps. I have no problems with foaming issues once I installed a tower cooling fan. I serve at 8-12 psi depending on style

Prior to buying I called and asked for advice. They are great and advised me the 5' would be fine. They were correct.

 

[Doed]

Another important point is the length of the shank. A longer shank inside the keezer/kegerator will help cool the tap and keep the beer from foaming when it hits the shank and tap. This is only a minor part though as the tubing length is most important.

 

[Rev2010]

I went with 12' lines right off that bat since I researched and read up on this first. My pours have been excellent and I don't even chill my tower. As mentioned, outside of line length the other thing to reduce foaming would be to cool your tower. You can do that by making or buying a tower cooling fan/blower (looks basically like this

or you can go the copper pipe method (looks like this without the tower on

Another option would be to go with Perlick 650SS flow control faucets.


Rev.

 

[bobeer]

I use 5 ft of line and serve my beer at around 5 psi. I get a nice pour every time.

 

[UpstateMike]

I've heard that a good starting point is 1 foot of 3/16 line per serving pressure PSI. So probably 12 feet is a good starting point. You can always cut back if necessary.

 

[day_trippr]

I use 5 ft of line and serve my beer at around 5 psi. I get a nice pour every time.

At what temperature?

Cheers!

 

[ruger988]

Keezer at 45* with 4' lines, serve at 12psi and never had an issue.

 

[chickypad]

Some people get away with short lines - maybe it's the rise to their tap, better cooling/airflow, who knows. Many of us just need longer lines. A too long line doesn't hurt anything except giving a slow pour, I'd give it a try.

 

[Bobby_M]

I use 5 ft of line and serve my beer at around 5 psi. I get a nice pour every time.

I suppose you're OK with losing carbonation over time or you boost the pressure back up between pour sessions? Why mess around with pressures all the time. Use longer lines and leave the pressure up to maintain your carb level. I'm always amazed when people do all these keg gymnastics to carb fast and control pours.

 

[copper2hopper]

Right there with us Gavin. I just installed this today and can't wait to fill it and run it. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1419540735.252805.jpg
I'm pretty much an IPA/APA brewer and will be serving at a constant 2.4 vol of C02. My fridge here is set at 34 degrees F. So would I be correct to assume that 8-9 psi at that temp with this set up with 5' hose is good? Or go lower psi?

 

[k1ngl1ves]

I've heard that a good starting point is 1 foot of 3/16 line per serving pressure PSI. So probably 12 feet is a good starting point. You can always cut back if necessary.

Exactly what I do, and I've built/rebuilt close to 20 kegerators/keezers. Never a foaming issue once I figured it out...

 

[day_trippr]

I suppose you're OK with losing carbonation over time or you boost the pressure back up between pour sessions?[...]

5 psi...I suppose if he kept his beer at 30°F the carbonation level would stabilize around 2.2 volumes.
Low for most styles but maybe he likes flattish beer to go with the brain freeze...

Cheers!

 

[Yooper]

Right there with us Gavin. I just installed this today and can't wait to fill it and run it. View attachment 244316
I'm pretty much an IPA/APA brewer and will be serving at a constant 2.4 vol of C02. My fridge here is set at 34 degrees F. So would I be correct to assume that 8-9 psi at that temp with this set up with 5' hose is good? Or go lower psi?

You'll go crazy with a 5' length. I'd go with a minimum of 10', but the worst that can happen if you go with 12' is that it may take 2 seconds longer to pour a pint.

 

[bobeer]

I suppose you're OK with losing carbonation over time or you boost the pressure back up between pour sessions? Why mess around with pressures all the time. Use longer lines and leave the pressure up to maintain your carb level. I'm always amazed when people do all these keg gymnastics to carb fast and control pours.

I've never have had to play around with the psi and the carb is always fine. I'm in no rush to carb my beer. I just do what works for me.

 

[fivepointslow]

Hmmm all this talk about 10' line.. I have about 3' and not one single issue. Thing is I use the co2 line for my beer so it's a little smaller diameter than regular beer line.

 

[llgriffin]

I go by this, seems to work quite well. http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/07/14/keg-line-length-balancing-the-science-of-draft-beer/

 

[trapae]

Another 10 foot at 12 psi here.

 

[Zepth]

Just finished building my keezer. Stays at 9C (48F or so), most taps at 16 psi. 10' is perfect IMO. Front shanks stay cold and just a tiny bit of extra head on the first pour. 10' is also keeping my 20psi wheat beer under control for the most part. Needs a little attention while pouring but certainly manageable.

Until this point had 6' picnic taps inside. 6' was nowhere close to enough, even low at 12psi.

 

[day_trippr]

I go by this, seems to work quite well. http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/07/14/keg-line-length-balancing-the-science-of-draft-beer/

Brad followed the herd.

And if the herd was correct, a bazillion "Help My Foamy Pours!" threads would have never been started.

The only line length calculator worth using comes with an education. Bonus!

Cheers!

 

[jmcquesten]

Brad followed the herd.

And if the herd was correct, a bazillion "Help My Foamy Pours!" threads would have never been started.

The only line length calculator worth using comes with an education. Bonus!

Cheers!

It seems that people like to just use the "x number of feet worked for me, but I just turn off the gas to pour, then crank it back up" method. Instead of actually using a calculator with equations and proven laws to back it up. The Mike Soltys calculator is the most accurate line length calculator available. Everything is factored in. If you use this calculator, instead of the 5 ft so-and-so sent, or the 10 ft that seems to work for some people, you WILL end up with a properly balanced system that pours right.

Mike Soltys line length calculator will put an end to your kegging issues, use it.

 

[UpstateMike]

Brad followed the herd.

And if the herd was correct, a bazillion "Help My Foamy Pours!" threads would have never been started.

The only line length calculator worth using comes with an education. Bonus!

Cheers!

Interesting that the Final Gravity is figured in, but serving temperature is not.

 

[jmcquesten]

Interesting that the Final Gravity is figured in, but serving temperature is not.

The temperature DOES get figured in, it's on the temperature/pressure chart that he links. Go to the chart to figure out desired carbonation level at your preferred temperature. That will give you required pressure. Then use that pressure in the line length calculator.

 

[Gavin C]

Right there with us Gavin. I just installed this today and can't wait to fill it and run it. View attachment 244316
I'm pretty much an IPA/APA brewer and will be serving at a constant 2.4 vol of C02. My fridge here is set at 34 degrees F. So would I be correct to assume that 8-9 psi at that temp with this set up with 5' hose is good? Or go lower psi?

Looks good. Sounds good. I generally start at 10 psi following my 36-40 hours at 30psi. Tweak it up or down as needed

 

[Gavin C]

You'll go crazy with a 5' length. I'd go with a minimum of 10', but the worst that can happen if you go with 12' is that it may take 2 seconds longer to pour a pint.

Hmmm all this talk about 10' line.. I have about 3' and not one single issue. Thing is I use the co2 line for my beer so it's a little smaller diameter than regular beer line.

I went straight to kegging after 1 batch and read a lot of threads here and elsewhere to figure out what hardware to buy. I'm not a proponent of "it works for me so it must be ok" approach and think any scientific approach to line length, serving pressures, serving temperature is the correct way. I was all set to change my order with Kegconnection and request longer lines. After speaking with one of their customer care reps He advised me that 5' would be sufficient.

I took him at his word as I assumed he was well versed in this area and he had a vested interested in up-selling me longer lines. Going against my usual approach, I sidelined all the info I found online and went with his advice. It has worked out very well for me. I can carbonate to style guidelines and get problem free pours once I installed my tower fan.

I have no other experience with kegging other than my small setup and I have only been kegging for 8 months or so. A novice to say the least and certainly any pointers I would have should be taken with a generous pinch of salt. Just wanted to add my experiences to the thread.

My small kegerator and a representative pour are below. Edwort's Haus Ale.
5' lines, 36F (measured at bottom of kegerator) 10psi

 

[copper2hopper]

Thanks Gavin. How do you store your filled kegs to yet be connected to your C02. Your "back ups" ready to go when your current kegs kick. Do you have them pre-primed with sugar when you rack them to keg or are they just slightly pressurized (with no priming sugar) enough to seal and then you cold crash while carbonating for that 36-40 hour time at 30psi?

 

[day_trippr]

Looks rather still, doesn't it...

Cheers!

 

[Gavin C]

Thanks Gavin. How do you store your filled kegs to yet be connected to your C02. Your "back ups" ready to go when your current kegs kick. Do you have them pre-primed with sugar when you rack them to keg or are they just slightly pressurized (with no priming sugar) enough to seal and then you cold crash while carbonating for that 36-40 hour time at 30psi?

Assuming I'm up to speed on my pipeline I will have a carboy crashed and ready to go for carbonation when a keg kicks. Not always so well organized depending on rate of consumption etc. I can switch out kegs as desired but I try not to as it inevitably will disturb gelatinized sediment. it settles out but you need to give it a little time. I like to have a Hefeweizen going for these switches not least because I really like the style. Periodic disruption of sediment is desirable here. (gelatin is not used in Hefe)

Chest freezer with STC1000 for crashing, fermentation and storage of kegs is shown as is Lil Sparky's nut brown. another representative pour. Sipping one as I type.

 

[Gavin C]

Looks rather still, doesn't it...

Cheers!

I find creating truly representative images of beer color, clarity and carbonation to be extremely difficult. Thank you for the critique on my photographic technique. If you have any pointers as to how you capture representative images I would love to know.

Aperture, f-stop, exposure time are all variables I'm sure. I'm a bit of a dullard when it comes to photography I'm afraid

 

[day_trippr]

I find creating truly representative images of beer color, clarity and carbonation to be extremely difficult. Thank you for the critique on my photographic technique. If you have any pointers as to how you capture representative images I would love to know.

Aperture, f-stop, exposure time are all variables I'm sure. I'm a bit of a dullard when it comes to photography I'm afraid

Whoa. Way more there than was intended - and I'm hardly qualified to judge photographs in any case. It just looked rather flat for a fresh pour - which in the context of the thread could be significant.

Probably lack of backlight - there must've been more going on in that glass than the picture captured, else it really was a flat beer with a cap of foam, and that can't be right Although looking again, I'm not sure that's it either. Oh well...

But a little backlighting can bring life to a glass of beer...

Cheers!

 

[Gavin C]

Whoa. Way more there than was intended - and I'm hardly qualified to judge photographs in any case. It just looked rather flat for a fresh pour - which in the context of the thread could be significant.

Probably lack of backlight - there must've been more going on in that glass than the picture captured, else it really was a flat beer with a cap of foam, and that can't be right

A little backlighting can bring life to a glass of beer...

Cheers!

That is a truly beautiful beer picture. Certainly makes mine look very sad and flat. Great tip on the backlighting. Thanks for the pointer. Much appreciated.

 

[day_trippr]

You're too kind, but thanks

Taken with an old Oly digital, it belies roughly 70 pounds of Nikon F-bodies and associated glass that hasn't been touched in over a decade, along with pretty near everything I ever learned about apertures, shutter speeds and ISO/ASA/DIN, oh so many years ago...

Cheers!

 

[k1ngl1ves]

I like those wind up disposables. My wife says I embarrass her when I pull out one of those babies to snap a shot.



Zip zip zip. Click.



It's my payback for her taking up half my garage with useless junk...