Trying to do an all grain next

[jnetzel]

So I want to do an all grain IPA next. Firstly how much grain should I use to get a 9+% alcohol assuming I have 5.5 gallons at the start? Secondly If I use 1lb of hops instead of say 8 oz? Would that mess things up? Anyways thanks advice is appreciated

 

[JohnSand]

Welcome aboard!
I suggest proven recipes before creating your own, whether new to brewing or trying new methods and styles. We have a recipe section here on HBT, Brewer's Friend has recipes and calculators. If choosing an online recipe, I like ones with plenty of feedback. There are also excellent books of recipes, I started with Brewing Classic Styles.
Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[jnetzel]

I'm going to use the mosaic madness ipa recipe that I have from howdy brewer. I can post a Pic later. But it calls for LME which I want to substitute for grains. And do hops in the same quantity but adjusted for shooting for a higher OG

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

If the vendor/supplier has an all-grain kit for LME kit, use that recipe. Otherwise.:

• Lazy Chart For Converting – DME – LME -GRAIN (Jays Brewing)
• Extract to Base Grain Conversion Calculator (Brewers Friend)

The easiest way to make a good 9% IIPA, start with a proven recipe.. The proven path to failure for making a good 9% IIPA is to start with an IPA recipe then "play with the sliders" in recipe software to get to
1) a 9% and
2) a BU:GU ratio
that change the indicators from "red" to "green".

 

[RM-MN]

So I want to do an all grain IPA next. Firstly how much grain should I use to get a 9+% alcohol assuming I have 5.5 gallons at the start? Secondly If I use 1lb of hops instead of say 8 oz? Would that mess things up? Anyways thanks advice is appreciated

Firstly, nobody knows how much grain you should use because when doing all grain the mash efficiency is not guaranteed. After you have done half a dozen batches you will have an idea of what efficiency to expect.

Use a calculator to see how much of which hop to use. If you use 1 oz of a hop with 18% alpha acid, your beer will be very bitter. If you use 8 oz of a hop with 4% alpha acid, it will be cloying from the unbalanced sugar.

 

[WouldBeBrewmaster]

For your first all grain batch. I’d suggest something lower in ABV. With a high gravity batch your efficiency will almost certainly be lower.

Dial in your process and learn your mash efficiency first. Then you’ll have an idea of what you are up against brewing a high gravity batch. And when you are ready, have plenty of DME and/or sugar on hand if you do miss your numbers.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I'm going to use the mosaic madness ipa recipe that I have from howdy brewer. I can post a Pic later. But it calls for LME which I want to substitute for grains. And do hops in the same quantity but adjusted for shooting for a higher OG

Brewer's friend software tells me that I'd need 9.75 lbs of LME to make 5.5 gallons of 1.062 wort. For a 9% abv beer, you're going to want to push that starting gravity up to about 1.092 -- using just LME, that'd be 14.5 lbs of LME. For all-grain, assuming a reasonable 75% brewhouse efficiency, you would need to mash 18 lbs of 2-row base malt (dunno, does "ultralight" imply pilsner malt?) to hit that same gravity. Adjusting the amount of bittering hops so that you still have the same ibu's is easy enough with recipe software, but keep in mind that ethanol itself has a sweetness contribution of it's own, so 33 ibu's in a 9% beer will taste quite a bit sweeter than 33 ibu's in a 6% beer. Does that recipe have instructions that list the actual hopping schedule? I'm sure almost all of them are going in at flame-out/whirlpool/dry-hop...

Also, if this will be your first all-grain beer, I would agree with everyone else here, first just try to clone the beer as-is (aim for the 1.062, you'd need about 12 lbs of base malt) and see how that goes before you try hitting high gravity worts.

 

[Willy]

For your first all grain batch. I’d suggest something lower in ABV. With a high gravity batch your efficiency will almost certainly be lower.

Dial in your process and learn your mash efficiency first. Then you’ll have an idea of what you are up against brewing a high gravity batch. And when you are ready, have plenty of DME and/or sugar on hand if you do miss your numbers.

Going to suggest the same. Lower ABV unless you want to struggle thru a potential boil over, lifting an insanely heavy bag, and a host of other pitfalls.

To begin all grain, i would suggest a simple recipe at about 5% ... That will be enough to see how the process works before pushing the limits.

 

[firerat]

All of the above is excellent advice.

Learning your set up and dialing in your efficiency is Paramount in being consistent with hitting numbers. I'm in process of dialing in my system after taking a 2 year break and using a different system now. In my last 3 batches I'm consistently getting about 75% efficiency, which is better efficiency than my old setup, but also means I need to compensate and adjust my recipes to get the same results. Otherwise if I don't adjust, my ratios will be off. One of the biggest in my opinion, rookie mistakes in this hobby is focusing on getting higher efficiency instead of consistent efficiency. (Sorry for drifting off topic)

I agree with the posts above. Brew a few tried and true recipes, take really good notes, and work on being consistent. Then you can start adjusting to make the beer yours.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

(dunno, does "ultralight" [LME] imply pilsner malt?)

Ultralight LME: Brewmaster is the wholesaler of this kit. The kit contains CellarScience™ CALI yeast. The package of Ultralight Malt Extract that I ordered from MoreBeer (a while back) was packaged by Brewmaster. The MoreBeer product page states "it is made from 100% 2-row base malt" plus technique(s) to minimize the impact of converting the wort to LME.

Using a pilsner malt, rather than a 2 row brewers malt, would likely reduce the beer's SRM by a point or two.

 

[Willy]

.... Take good notes, And work on being consistent.

If you make the greatest beer the world has ever known, it is a good idea to be able to make it again, and it tastes just like the #1 beer of all time. haha

 

[Tony B]

I agree with everyone. It takes a few straightforward batches to get some semblance of a routine, learn your equipment, create your process, learn to use brewing software/ calculator etc. After a few batches you’ll see a trend in actual brewhouse efficiency and be able to dial in your equipment and recipes to get what you want. Also figuring strike temp, mash temp loss is huge.
I haven’t brewed a high gravity beer, but also understand that it usually means lower efficiency and a higher yeast pitch.

 

[worlddivides]

I also agree with everyone for the most part.

I don't think there's a problem with creating a recipe from scratch for your first all grain brew, but that's only if you've already created tons of recipes from scratch for your extract recipes and have a pretty good grasp on how the process works, even if you haven't done all grain before. If you've mainly been using kits or other people's recipes so far, then I definitely wouldn't start creating your own recipes with your first all grain.

I also agree with others that I probably wouldn't do a super high-gravity beer as my first all grain. With extract, you can just pour in as much LME and DME that you need, but with all grain, there's issues with brewhouse efficiency, and you won't know what your normal brewhouse efficiency is, plus higher gravity beers tend to have lower brewhouse efficiency, so it might be better to start with something in the 4% to 6% ABV range (just as a general idea) and try the double or triple IPA a bit further down the road.

 

[BongoYodeler]

@jnetzel sounds like you're a relatively new brewer. Excellent!! It's a great hobby, and one you can have a lot if fun with for many years to come. What I would tell you is that you'd do very well to heed all the advice above. These replies are trying to steer you in the absolute best path forward for someone with not a ton of experience. Everyone here, and I do mean everyone has been where you are today. This is a great site and all here will go out of our way to help you. Please take the advice!! As tempting as it is to want to jump right into the deep end it's very important to take your time and learn your equipment, learn the process. Then repeat the process, aim for consistency. To use an analogy, all too often we see new brewers trying to run at full speed, before they learn to walk. And all too often this leads to frustration when the resulting beer doesn't turn out as they'd hoped, and they end up quitting the hobby before they really get started.
Good luck, and please accept the help that's being offered.

 

[hungupdown]

With new equipment, I'd be wanting to try a few regular ABV beers first.
Then for higher ABVs I'd go for a partial mash, rather than attempting AG (with lower efficiencies).

For 16% ABV imperual stout, I'll add 3kg of LME, towards end of the boil.
In Brewfather, you can easily see what amount of grains can be dropped when adding 1/2/3kg LME (or whatever pack size is used). Replace only the recipes base malt with LME, to preserve the character of any speciality malts.

 

[Bobby_M]

There is a tendency for newer brewers to go from zero to 100 in the shortest time possible. I think it's a rationale that if I can control anything about the beer, why wouldn't I want to see what the alcohol cranked to 10% would be like. If a good IPA is 5x hoppy, it would be so much better 10x hoppy.

Stern talkin-to aside, if you want to just go for it and do whatever you want, just be ready for failure and accept it if it happens. All of us want new brewers to have a good time and be happy with the beer they make.

Taking a known, good recipe (which we can only assume is the case with the kit), and ONLY cranking the alcohol will pull the beer out of balance. What I mean is, an IPA isn't just a higher ABV pale ale and a double IPA isn't just a higher ABV IPA.

If you really want to try a double IPA, use a known double IPA recipe and follow it.