Trying someone else's Homebrew - etiquette??

[Nowuries]

Ok, so an old friend of my Dad's calls me up the other day cause' he has heard that I brew beer now, so he invites me over to try some of his. Awesome! I'm all about it........
But what is the proper etiquette when trying someone's homebrew that sucks? I didn't feel right in saying a word (other than praise), so I choked down a full 12oz of flat "beer" that tasted like alcoholic fruit juice..... that was supposed to be an APA?
As soon as he poped the top and I didn't here the hiss I knew I was in for it! So I ask, "Hey, uh when did you bottle these?" to which he says 3 months ago. So then I kinda (not trying to be obvious) started asking about his bottling process.... Oh, well.
Same thing happened about a month ago with another older friend, but at least I didn't have to try it in front of him, dumped it straight down the drain after one sip..... come to find out latter, he boils one can of lme, pitches yeast, then ferments it out in his garage... which right now is around 100 degeres!!! No Hops at all!!

See, I read on here constantly :rockin: and watch several podcasts and videocasts and read Zymurgy and BYO and all that good stuff, I try to put some thought into my brews and I have counted every one a success.
But I don't feel accomplished enough to criticize... any good tips?

 

[scottmd06]

LMAO! Sorry to hear that bud lol I have a feiend who has me try this Mr. Beer brews and for some reason his sediment is always goopy and swirls through the beer no matter what. Maybe I should have him brew with me some time to view better brewing practices...

 

[Baldy_Beer_Brewery]

How would you respond if you were invited somewhere for dinner and the gravy was lumpier than you prefer or the meat a little overcooked?

If your friend asked about the carbonation or some other aspect that you could offer constructive criticism to that's fine. But other than that you should just be a good guest IMHO.

 

[bigolbigbelly]

Give him one of your homebrews and he will taste the difference. They will start asking questions on their own.

 

[JDennis]

Guess I've been lucky. The only two other people's homebrew I've had are the friend I brew with ( and we are both more prone to criticize our own if they aren't good ) and a friends dad who has been brewing for years and makes some truly excellent beer.

I can see the dilemma though.

 

[Priemus]

Only ever tried 3 peoples homebrew, 1 was from an experienced team and it was as good as anything ive ever tasted, and I expressed this. 1 is my own, which 3 years ago was undrinkable, and is now a little hit and miss between Mwah-fantastic.

....the other one someone brought round to my house for me to try, reminded me of what I made 3 years ago, and I let him know it was bad. People need to be able to take critisism about thier ugly babys or it wont get any better.

Maybe not so much "this tastes like #"%&!" But break out the BJCP guidelines and run through it with them be constuctive but speak up.

 

[hal2814]

I'd find the nice things to say about it. If the beer was that bad, I'd ask about their brew process until I could find something to complement. And if you still can't find anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Even if you were an accomplished brewer, providing unsolicited criticism (or even solicited harsh criticism) is not a way to make friends and influence people. Maybe you could try a swap instead of just trying theirs. That way if they take note of something you're doing that they like, you can share your methods and techniques.

 

[DrawTap88]

+1 to constructive criticism. Me and my brew buddy do this with just about every beer we brew. We go through what we thought the beer would taste like, then run through the process and ingredients to see where it went wrong.

Gotta tell'em when their ugly baby is ugly. Otherwise that baby will never get pretty.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I'd say take some of your own as well as a good offer for trade and so in case theirs sucks, he can taste that yours doesn't and maybe he'll initiate the questions about why his sucks in comparison. He may think his is as good as it gets with homebrew. If he's a good friend, tell him, dude, this is way fruity, you ferment this at high temps? Then just say it's "good" but you're not a fan of fruity beers and usually ferment cooler to prevent the excessive fruity esters. This will likely all come as jibberish to him, and then you can educate

 

[Yooper]

You know what? If he didn't say, "Hey, try this- what do you think?", then don't say anything except "Thank you.". If he asked for criticism you could offer a bit, but if he was sharing with you as a fellow brewer, you just gotta shut up and drink yer poison. He was sharing with you as a fellow homebrewer who could enjoy his creation- not to get a critique of his brewing techniques.

I've called it the "ugly baby" syndrome before. Most people love their homebrew, and are proud of it. They make it and enjoy making it and drinking it. Just like those parents with an ugly baby- they think he's beautiful and just don't see how homely that baby is. Just like with homebrew- there are some NASTY homebrews out there. But the "parent" thinks it's terrific.

I judged a beer comp last week. Some of those beers were so phenolic and downright nasty that I couldn't even get past the aroma and felt almost sick at tasting them. Now, I'm sure the brewers knew they weren't perfect beers, and wanted criticism, but I'm also certain that no one would enter those beers if they actually could taste those flaws. Lots and lots of "ugly babies" in that competition.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Somewhat related: When I drink/taste my homebrew at home it seems to taste different than when I drink/taste it elsewhere. The flaws seem to stand out more when away from home. Don't know why that is.

I agree that unless he asked for feedback, just say 'thanks'. But I like IP's idea to let him try some of yours right next to his. Hopefully, he'll see how much better it is and start asking questions.

There are some people in my homebrew club who are good beer judges and when I have them taste my beer I want them to mention every little flaw. But I specifically ask for that. If they don't mention a flaw I think I detect, then and only then do I mention it and ask if they can taste it, is it too much, is it out-of-style, etc.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Anyone can take tips on etiquette from Hugh Jass. When i was still new to AG I gave him a beer that was too young, and even when it aged would not have been up to much. I felt strangely compelled to make him taste a beer even though it was a stupid thing to do. He managed to drink it without a disparaging word even though his insides must have been running around looking for the emergency exit.
Earlier this year, I met his brother. When he told me that Hugh is very fussy about his beer I felt stupid all over again.

I didn't need criticism in this instance because I knew it was a mistake. Hugh realized that and let me off the hook. Phew!

 

[jpoder]

funny story this thread reminded me of.

I had a neighbor/friend when I was in college (12+ years ago) who kept telling me, "I have a friend who homebrews...he would LOVE to try yours". Finally a day came when his other "friend" was over. I was very excited as this was really the first other homebrewer (other than the guy who owned the LHBS) to try my beer. I went over to my neighbors with a few cold ones, and met his (very sketchy looking) friend. we opened/poured two bottles and I asked him what he thought. he gave me very minimal comments, and led me to believe that he really didn't know much. I asked him about his homebrewing, to which he replied, "When I was in prison we would put orange juice in a pan on the radiator with a piece of bread floating in it, and it would turn into booze...tasty stuff!" I wanted to rip my beer out of his hand and go home. I managed to stick around long enough to down the beer I was drinking and make an excuse to get the hell out of there. I was pissed at the time, but laugh now. truth be told, back then my beer probably wasn't that much better than his radiator OJ hooch.

 

[AnOldUR]

This holds true of commercials too. I have a neighbor who’s a BMC drinker. I try to avoid sharing my beer with him because I know that anything with more than a Bud Lite hop kick will be too much for him. The other day he brought over a six of Trader Jose, a Corona knock off. Probably not a bad beer to some peoples taste buds, but unless I was really desperate to get drunk or already really drunk, I’d dump it. (Kind of like I don’t eat beets or liver.) So, do you drink this beer with a smile and say how good it is (in which case he may bring more )?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I always ask if people want an honest review or just me sit back and enjoy their handcrafted beer. If you get a wishy-washy 'yeah, give me your review', just make up something lame and nice. But a lot of times brewers will be all about it, then give them an honest review of the beer. Just review the flavor you taste etc. It is OK to note, astringency or other off flavors, things you like, dislike. Just be honest. Don't tell them what they need to do or should be doing. For all you know they could be an awesome brewer and this is just a bad batch etc.

If they start asking you questions then gently tell them what you do without making it seem like the only way to do things.

It definitely is a dangerous game. A lot of brewers are easily offended and need to be handled with kid gloves. Just use your judgment.

 

[floyd242]

Honestly, I would tell him what I thought and help him figure out why his beer was flat. I may loose a friend, but I hate tippy toeing around people so he probably wouldn't be a friend for long anyway if he got upset about it.

Edit: Hmm if it was my Dad's friend I guess that would be different. I'd probably just drink it (I've drank enough of my bad batches that it wouldn't be a problem) and let him try one of my better ones and see what happens like everyone else said.

 

[Tinga]

Hugh Jass

lolz guy must have been made fun of in his lifetime.

anyway. as im still starting out i have trouble with people telling me flaws. i give them something and tell them its going to be terrible. they drink it and like it. ugh half me wants to believe that this nasty thing i have created is as good as what they usually drink but im positive it's got chlorophenols out the roof and fermented too warm and cooked orange flavor. yuck. so now i just need to make some friends that are real beer snobs to get a good critique.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Here is my thoughts on it - If you just give praise, how would he know what he needs to improve?

Sure, don't be too harsh on a first attempt or the like, but let him know what techniques he could do to help improve the beer. Hell,the best may be to have him over when you brew a beer (extract probably for simplicity) so he sees how you do it.

If I am giving a home brew to another brewer, I really want their opinion so I can improve my beer, as I might be overconfident about my craft.

I have had a home brew recently from another brewer that wasn't so good. Several of us agreed it wasn't that good, but we kept it to ourselves. The reason was because the brewer was so damned cocky that if I had told him his beer was rather one-note and light/green, he wouldn't believe me. So adjust for the person, I figure.

So, on the flip side, if someone doesn't like your beer, remember that there are 1) many different tastes out there, and 2) the chance that your beer isn't actually all that good. It is a sad truth, but sometimes we brewers can get blinded by getting reviews from people who think they only should say good things.

 

[Ludovico]

I've found myself in this situation a couple of times, and I think the key is be constructive. A friend invited me over to try a kit 'stout' he had brewed. Before tasting, he told me how he had decided to add a couple cups of table sugar to his fermenter because he wanted it to be sweeter...

Well this stuff had an odd, musty, acidic twang to it with each sip - almost tasted like a flat flemish sour. I drank a whole large swingtop, and by the end it tasted a bit better... but my original response was "I've never really tasted a stout with this kind of acidity - it almost tastes like red wine." Later I offered to come help him brew his next batch.

 

[IrregularPulse]

This holds true of commercials too. I have a neighbor who’s a BMC drinker. I try to avoid sharing my beer with him because I know that anything with more than a Bud Lite hop kick will be too much for him. The other day he brought over a six of Trader Jose, a Corona knock off. Probably not a bad beer to some peoples taste buds, but unless I was really desperate to get drunk or already really drunk, I’d dump it. (Kind of like I don’t eat beets or liver.) So, do you drink this beer with a smile and say how good it is (in which case he may bring more )?

Commercial beer is a different story. They didn't make it. Just tell them you don't like that style of beer. If they call you a beer snob, ask why it doesn't make them a beer snob for not liking the styles you like?

 

[tenchu_11]

I think alot of starting out home brewers have this problem and i've caught myself doing it too. People come over and hear I home brew so i let them try my recently bottled batch which usually has only been sitting for 1 week or under in a bottle. Obviously its not refirgerated since its carbonating and its not conditioned. But I think its the greatest because I know its how is suppose to taste for a room temp beer that happens to be underconditioned. While i'm tasting it all i can think about how great it will be in 3 more weeks. Its sorta like some cooks they might make the thoughest piece of meat but to them they still think its like the pull pork the made the week before guess its just pride. Whenever I let some one have an under conditioned beer or room temp (because they say they don't mind they just want to try) I apologize ahead of time and tell them how it should taste instead of what they are tasting. I've had people taste is bottled after one week and give me mixed reviews and come back 3 weeks later and want to drink three bottles in one sitting. Which really pisses me off having to be nice sure have more of my beer I didn't touch for....3 weeks you have no idea how hard it was to wait.

 

[hal2814]

Here is my thoughts on it - If you just give praise, how would he know what he needs to improve?

Simple. This is a hobby. He doesn't need to improve anything. If he wants to, then I think it's appropriate to use constructive criticism. But until then, if the brewer is happy with the product, that's all that matters.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Simple. This is a hobby. He doesn't need to improve anything. If he wants to, then I think it's appropriate to use constructive criticism. But until then, if the brewer is happy with the product, that's all that matters.

^^^^+1. Using my overused golf analogy, some people are perfectly content to play bad golf their entire lives. They enjoy it, that's what it's all about to them. Nothing wrong with that imo.

 

[Whippy]

This is a nice thread and should stand to teach everyone here some valuable lessons!!

When you want feedback on your own beer, give one to a fellow brewer and ask them to try it in their own time so they don't need to be polite in front of you.

Ask them to please let you know the next time you see them what you might do to improve your brew in the future. This tactic would probably foster more honest feedback in my opinion.

 

[AnOldUR]

^^^^+1. Using my overused golf analogy, some people are perfectly content to play bad golf their entire lives. They enjoy it, that's what it's all about to them. Nothing wrong with that imo.

Bad analogy. You don't have to taste their (golf) balls.

 

[NorCalAngler]

If he didn't ask for feedback then don't give it to him. I like the other post that compared it to a prepared meal. You wouldn't tell them their fish was overcooked and the mashed potatoes are too salty.

When I let somebody try my beer I tell them there are a couple things you have to do differently when drinking homebrew and then I email them the following:

Home brewed beer is a little bit different than grabbing one off the grocery store shelf. The brewing process has four ingredients, that's it. Barley, hops, water and yeast. During the bottling process the way you get carbonation in the bottle is by adding a small amount of sugar, which the yeast eats up and produces CO2. When the yeast are done eating the sugar they fall to the bottom of the bottle. If you look closely you will see a fine layer of yeast on the bottom of the bottle. This is called bottle conditioning and a few brewers still do this such as Sierra Nevada's pale ale.

What this means is you need to pour my beer into a glass, leaving about 1/4in of beer behind in the bottle so you leave the yeast in the bottle. You should chill the bottle for at least 3 hours prior to opening and don't try to flash chill it in the freezer. If you flash chill it then the bottle may foam over when you open it.

*I give a general description of the style of beer I shared here* The only thing I ask in return for the beer is honest feedback!

 

[zman]

I'd find the nice things to say about it. If the beer was that bad, I'd ask about their brew process until I could find something to complement. And if you still can't find anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Even if you were an accomplished brewer, providing unsolicited criticism (or even solicited harsh criticism) is not a way to make friends and influence people. Maybe you could try a swap instead of just trying theirs. That way if they take note of something you're doing that they like, you can share your methods and techniques.

Reading the Dale Carnegie book are we? I say that be cause I am reading it not and recognize some of the verbiage

 

[tenchu_11]

Heres what you do take a sip and throw the bottle againts the wall yelling "gross!!" and run into the bathroom and start puking. Say thank you and leave, he will thank you in the end

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Simple. This is a hobby. He doesn't need to improve anything. If he wants to, then I think it's appropriate to use constructive criticism. But until then, if the brewer is happy with the product, that's all that matters.

I would tend to disagree with this, just in the fact that he is coming to another brewer. Someone mentioned it is like being asked over for a meal. Now, if I were a chef, and you said "Oh, you're a chef? I made a steak, you should try it!" would you like me to just say "Hmm, tasty, thanks", or "Not bad, but I would suggest you cook this on a lower heat and let it sit in the marinade to soak up more flavors"?

Again, it is a hobby, but for it as my hobby, I want to make great beer. You can tell someone an honest review of their beer without coming off as a jerk or destroying egos and feelings.

Besides, if I was brewing mediocre beer, I would want to be told so I could make it better, so when I share it people aren't just choking it down to be polite.

 

[curlyfat]

I think the bottom line is that unsolicited criticism just makes you a know-it-all jackass. On the other hand, I hate people that drink my beer, say it's "great", but don't want a second round. Especially since I tell them, "I want to make really good beer, please let me know what's good and what's bad. Please don't tell me it's good if you don't like it." But, as other people pointed out, this was just a dude sharing his mutual hobby with you. It is not our place to teach those that don't want to be taught. We can only lead by example.

I feel your pain, though. My dad had some homebrew from a friend of his that "has been brewing his whole life". It was awful. It tasted like the first batch I made fermented at 80f and bottled after 4 days. Uck. But I told my dad to let him know I enjoyed it...because he did not ask for notes!

 

[Shooter]

Heres what you do take a sip and throw the bottle againts the wall yelling "gross!!" and run into the bathroom and start puking. Say thank you and leave, he will thank you in the end

Nailed it right here! :rockin:

 

[Whippy]

I don't think you should be too polite and not say anything. I have been telling people lately that I am going to start homebrewing. Do you know what the numer one thing I'm hearing from folks??

"I had some homebrew one time and it tasted like ARMPIT! I'll never drink that stuff again" ...or some variation. I have heard this sort of thing from three people in the past week and a half.

Homebrew will never get away from these stereotypes untill homebrewers become more educated and stop brewing Armpit Ale. If the beer is bad, tell the person (POLITELY!) what you don't like about it

 

[Tinga]

i think you can also critique their beer tot he style they tried. so its not directly their beer.

Say they have too many esters. tell them the esters are normally part of such and such styles and don't necessarily belong in this style and this is how you prevent that. things of that nature.

 

[tenchu_11]

I agree, I mean you can apologize like. "I'm sorry Bob (random name) but I have to tell you this beer is....spoiled...infected....est" Tell him ways to make it better, if he gets angry than its his misplaced pride.

 

[NorCalAngler]

I agree, I mean you can apologize like. "I'm sorry Bob (random name) but I have to tell you this beer is....spoiled...infected....est" Tell him ways to make it better, if he gets angry than its his misplaced pride.

Is it worth simultaneously irritating and embarrassing the person? Bottom line, if they don't ask for direct feedback then don't give it to them. They didn't submit it to a BJCP event, they just wanted to share it.

If you really feel like you want to help the person at the very least ask them if they're open to hearing some constructive criticism before laying into their beer. That puts their guard down and opens them up to receiving the feedback.

 

[tenchu_11]

Is it worth simultaneously irritating and embarrassing the person? Bottom line, if they don't ask for direct feedback then don't give it to them. They didn't submit it to a BJCP event, they just wanted to share it.

If you really feel like you want to help the person at the very least ask them if they're open to hearing some constructive criticism before laying into their beer. That puts their guard down and opens them up to receiving the feedback.

Well like the OG post said it was sour and tasted like rubbing alcohol or something along those lines..not very good. So theres only two real things. Either comment politely or don't say anything, plain and simple. If i was a hobbie ..lets say baking and some one got into baking and invited me over to try some of their cakes. If they where burnted I'd let them know politely "a little over cooked for my taste" and tell them how to make it work better for them. Personaly I find it less polite in the long run not to say anything. You can always bring your own brew for them to compare, why would you not say anything and just let them keep making the same crap over and over. I think it would be a disservice to them. Its not like your grandma is baking you a cake where if you complain or critique it, you would come off as an ass. Its two home brewers having a beer conversation. If you feel uncormfotable don't say anything or lie. At the same time its kinda bad to let someone just keep making bad beer because your afraid you'd hurt their feelings... you don't know they might actualy thank you in the end.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

...
"I had some homebrew one time and it tasted like ARMPIT! I'll never drink that stuff again" ...or some variation. I have heard this sort of thing from three people in the past week and a half...

This is also an issue. I don't want people to have a bad impression on home brew. Far be it from me to tell someone to stop brewing or completely change, but I think helping folks who make poor quality beer, even if they can't tell because no one has told them, is a good thing to do.

And yes, of course ask if you can give some constructive criticism.

 

[tenchu_11]

although wait until your beer is almost done. Hate to have the akward wait of asking "can i give you some criticism" the person just says no and you'd just have to sitt there quietly drinking a bad beer face to face for a few minutes. Atleast if you ask when its almost done you can excuse yourself and leave.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I agree with not dumping out unsolicited criticism. If there was a reason to offer some criticism and it wasn't solicited, I'd say something positive, and then follow it up with another comment pointing out a negative like it was something positive. Like, too estery? "It has a subtle fruity taste." That gives the person an opportunity to talk about their process or beer, and if they say they don't like the estery flavor then I could talk about how they are produced and the remedy. However, if he or she likes the estery flavor, then they get to take the extra compliment. I could still talk about what causes esters and then that will give them some idea of what to do if they don't want the esters in a future beer.

 

[soundsandsuds]

When I read the original post I immediately thought that it could just be one bad bottle. It's possible that it didn't seal properly when capped, and/or his priming sugar wasn't mixed into the batch properly.

Then again, it's entirely possible that he didn't know that he needed to prime it.

I would suggest that, rather than giving him a critique, you give him some knowledge. If you want to help him out then buy him a copy of the Complete Joy of Home Brewing or How to Brew. Tell him you just wanted to thank him for the beer and tell him how much great information and how many great recipes are in those books. You can get used copies on Amazon for pretty cheap. Then he can read it or not. If he doesn't care about making it better he won't bother, but it gives him a bunch of food-for-thought should he want to improve his beer chops.

That way you help to prevent armpit beer while seeming like a giving person rather than a know-it-all.