Tripel Recipe Feedback

[michael333]

I've constructed this recipe having never actually brewed before; some good friends of mine are experienced (one the brewmaster at the craft brewery where I work) and are going help me learn how to brew all grain from the start. They said that instead of buying a kit to find some recipes at different homebrew sites to share with them, and they'll help me build a recipe based on what I've found.

Well, based on what I've been looking at and the knowledge I have already, I decided to work on my own recipe to take them instead of just grabbing a bunch of stuff already out there. I thought I'd look for some feedback from uninvolved parties before taking it to my friends.

The idea is a play on a Belgian tripel, though I realize Cascade hops are not traditional for such a brew-- I wanted to go something a little more hop forward, but still hoping for that dry tripel finish with a nice balance. I calculated the recipe with BrewTarget.

Obviously I don't have a full recipe here, just the ingredients and hop addition times. Any feed back on mashing, adjustments, why anything would or wouldn't work. . . anything at all is very much appreciated.

Batch size is for 5.5 gallons. 60 minute boil.

Estimates from BrewTarget
OG: 1.084
FG: 1.018
ABV: 9.4%
IBU: 41.5
Color: 15.9
IBU/GU: 0.49

FERMENTABLES
15 lbs. Briess Pilsen Malt
2 lbs. Amber Candi Sugar
1 lbs. Rye Malt

HOPS
2 oz. Cascade (60 mins left in boil)
1 oz. Crystal (30 mins left in boil)
1 ox. Crystal (5 mins left in boil)

YEAST
Wyeast 3864 Candian/Belgian Ale

Secondary fermentation will include a hop bag with 3 tbsp of pink peppercorns.

Is there something here, or is this just a big old mess by someone who doesn't know what they're doing yet?

 

[signpost]

This will certainly make beer.

The hops aren't traditional for a trippel, but are probably fine. If you want to keep close to style, you might want to use a light or clear candi sugar. The amber might darken it too much. And the rye might be fine, but certainly could be left out.

One process thing is that I'd add the candi sugar to the fermenter a couple days into fermentation. Also I'd try to mash pretty low, around 150° F. Both of those things will help with attenuation.

 

[KyleWolf]

I have a belgian tripel recipe that is basically my house beer. It is really nice. Looking at yours, I agree with signpost. You need to use a lighter candi and I would even say you may want to decrease the amount of simple sugars added. That much simple sugar could thin out the body more than you would like and cause the beer to be boozy. If you want that nice light amber look to the beer, I would decrease the sugar to 0.5lb amber and 0.5lb clear candi sugar. Again, I agree with signpost, it would be in your best interest to add the simple sugars during day 2-3 of fermentation. This allows the yeast to chew up a majority of the more complex malt sugars before attacking the simple sugars. And mashing at 150F would also be a good starting point.

I have nothing to say about the Rye malt, I love rye, but have never used it in a Tripel (used it in a saison with good results). At 1lb though I don't think you will really get much character.

What is the purpose of the peppercorns? Not knocking it, I am just curious, sounds interesting!

Also, you will want to increase your boil time to at least 90min, pils needs a lower boil to get rid of DMS, which can cause a "cream corn" flavor/aroma.

 

[michael333]

Does anyone have experience with that particular strain of yeast? Everything I've looked at online points to that strain as the one used by Unibroue, who make some really good Belgian beers.

 

[michael333]

Also, thanks for the suggestions on the sugar! I want something that isn't quite as clear as you might expect a tripel to be, but I think the amber sugar WILL be too dark. I still want to make something that should come out to around 9% alcohol.

Maybe lower sugar to 1# and up the rye malt a little? The Pilsen should help the rye come through a bit if I up it more, I think?

 

[rmr9]

One thing to consider is your yeast strain, I'm pretty sure that the Wyeast 3864 Canadian/Belgian Ale is part of their private collection line and I don't think it's currently available. Maybe they'll release it again this year with their spring PC selection, I hope so at least. Maybe try 3787 Trappist High Gravity, I've read good things about that. I used the 3522 Ardennes strain in a dubbel a while back and I liked the results. It can be used in a tripel according to Wyeast's site.

 

[KyleWolf]

I culture Ommegang yeast from bottles and use the trub for my house belgian yeast. If I for some reason don't have any available, I tend to use the Belgian Strong Ale or Abbey from Wyeast.

And I think you will be good if you down the sugar and up the rye.

 

[signpost]

Since you are using pepper in this beer, the Belgian Ardennes 3522 would be a good match. I've used it a bunch and really like it. Plus, it attenuates really well.

 

[michael333]

. . . well damn, I didn't realize it wasn't a readily available strain. Hence why I brought my inexperience here for advice.

Any experience with the Wyeast 1214 strain, or is that a similar deal? I might be trying to overcomplicate things with the yeast, but that's where you're supposed to play around in a tripel, right? 1214 is used for Chimay, reportedly, and that's another favorite of mine.

You've said, and most other places as well, that 3787 is probably the way to go so I probably will in the end.

 

[IslandLizard]

+1 to all the above.

If using clear or light candi sugar you may as well add regular sugar instead. The yeast doesn't care, it will be all fermented out. The flavor contribution for those light candi sugars is minimal. I make amber (D-45) and dark (D-90) myself. Now the D-180 is a different story.

 

[michael333]

I will definitely look into Belgian Ardennes 3522 since it's been mentioned twice, and once specifically because of the peppercorns.

Since someone asked earlier, pink peppercorns aren't actually pepper but a small fruit that resembles a peppercorn and actually does have a peppery, fruity taste. I have only seen one or two recipes that used them for a tripel in my internet surfing, but I've used them in cooking before and I think the flavor will translate really well for a tripel! Most of the recipes I saw added ground pink peppercorn in the last few minutes before flameout, but I think since a tripel requires secondary fermentation anyway that I would use a hop bag full of them during that instead.

 

[michael333]

What about, instead of going for the candi sugar or using normal sugar, using Sugar in the Raw (or turbinado) sugar? Would it ferment well in a brew like this, and not come out too dark?

 

[m00ps]

Does anyone have experience with that particular strain of yeast? Everything I've looked at online points to that strain as the one used by Unibroue, who make some really good Belgian beers.

Yes, it is my favorite non-saison belgian yeast. My recommendations about the sugar would be kinda opposite what others have said. I think you could use more candi sugar easily. 1.018 is too high of an FG for a good tripel. You want to get it dry as possible. Ive had way too many sickly sweet tripels, commercial adn home brewed. Any combo of candi sugar, cane sugar, or even honey will work well. Also, mash very low 150 at max

I dont think having the rye in there is doing anything at all. I'd either increase it to 10% or more or just take it out. Rye and wheat will both help with body too

My tripel / Belgian Golden ale uses a bit of a saison strain to get the FG as low as possible. I add honey to the fermenter a few days in to help the yeast out and preserve as much of the honey character as I can
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=573839

 

[michael333]

So, updated recipe idea. . .

Batch size is for 5.5 gallons.
Mash at 150° F. 90 minute boil.

FERMENTABLES
14 lbs. Briess Pilsen Malt
2 lbs. Rye Malt
2 lbs. Candi Sugar or Sugar in the Raw (added 2-3 days into primary fermentation)

HOPS
2 oz. Cascade (90 mins left in boil)
1 oz. Crystal (60 left in boil)
1 oz. Crystal (30 mins left in boil)
1 ox. Crystal (5 mins left in boil)

YEAST
Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes

EXTRAS
3 oz. pink peppercorns (dry hop during secondary fermentation)

 

[signpost]

That's looking pretty good. But I have a couple more thoughts.

Why do you have the hops spread out through the boil so much? The 90 and 60 min. hops will pretty much be all bitterness. So, you could probably just do a 90 minute addition for the amount of IBUs you want. I don't typically go for all late hop additions, but adding hops at 90, 60 and 30 is not the best use of the hops, I think.

I might go for something like:

90 minutes - for bulk of IBUs and it could be the Cascade & Crystal together
20 or 15 minute addition for flavor
5 minutes for more flavor and some aroma

Also, the amounts you have listed for the hops seem pretty high to me, unless they have relatively low alpha acid content. I'd just double check the AA and calculations to make sure you don't go too high with the IBUs. It needs a good amount of bitterness to balance the high gravity, but there's a fine line for how bitter you want to get.

The one other thought I had was about the mash temp. I was one that said earlier that 150 F was good, but I was really thinking of that as a starting point for the mash. Depending on what equipment you use, you are likely to lose some heat over the duration of the mash. If that is the case don't worry about keeping it up to 150 F the whole time. Get it as close to 150 as you can at the start and just let it go. If it drops a few degrees over an hour mash, that will just give you better attenuation. Along with the sugar added to the fermenter, that will ensure you get it dried out and don't end up with a beer that is too sweet.

It will be digestible, as the Belgians say.

 

[michael333]

I posted the hop additions wrong actually. Still playing with that part, had several ideas listed on my document and just copied a chunk of them apparently. I want to go Cascade at the start of the boil for something a little more hop forward than a usual tripel and Crystal to finish for a more traditional hop in the style.

 

[rmr9]

I know this thread is a little bit old, but I just noticed on the wyeast site that they will be releasing the canadian/belgian ale strain in their spring PC offerings!