Trying to understand this, what is SV and FB?
American IPA Trilium Melcher Street Clone
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I think Serving Vessel and Fermentation Barrel... The acronyms probably aren't right, but I think I get the idea at least
I'll wait for confirmation though, as I am not certain myself.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
SV is serving vessel and [sic] FB is fermentation vessel (FV) hook up a quick disconnect with tubing on it from the gas out post of your receiving keg and then hook the other end up to the gas in post on your fermenting keg or just put the tubing into your caboy if you rack from a carboy, etc. in effect you will be transferring the pressurized CO2 from the serving vessel back into the fermentation vessel so there is not a pressure differential between them. it is a great way to transfer from one keg to another completely closed.
Doesn't make sense to me. You need to have greater pressure on top of the beer in the Carboy (fermentor) to push the beer out through the racking cane, the keg receiving the beer needs to have a means to release the pressure building up as beer fills the keg or nothing will move. Usually this pressure would vent to atmosphere through the open top or opened relief valve. If this pressure were piped back into the carboy the entire system would be equalized and nothing would move.
He forgot to mention the fv needs to be above the sv so it relies on gravity. There’s a whole other thread on this, check out page 1 but it’s worth reading the whole thing
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ny-keg-fermenting.600563/page-10#post-8312878
I can see it working if you are relying on a siphon to transfer but that is not what the initial discussion was about. I keep my vessels fairly even to avoid a strong siphon action as I find it picks up material from the bottom that doesn't happen when pressure differential is what moves the beer.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
gravity is the prime mover
Need some suggestions. So, I was supposed to acquire a small commercial fridge a day or two ago but the day I was going to pick it up, the guy found an issue with the thermostat he thinks, as it wasn’t getting as cold as it should. So he’s going to fix it but didn’t give me a time frame. Which blows, because now I’m stuck with a keg of beer and no way to cool it. It’s been in the keg for about 3.5 days just sitting at room temp (70*). My plan was to keep it at room temp 2-3 days, then get it into a fridge to crash for 24 hours, pump 30psi into it for 24 hours, then switch to serving psi and leave it for a few days until ready.
Well my schedule is jacked up and I have no way to cool it now... should I carb it up at room temp? Any ideas you guys can shoot at me would be great. Im kinda pissed about this whole last week as it seems kegging this beer just isn’t going my way haha.. and I don’t want it wasting away in the keg while doing nothing. Appreciate any advice on how to proceed!
Well my schedule is jacked up and I have no way to cool it now... should I carb it up at room temp? Any ideas you guys can shoot at me would be great. Im kinda pissed about this whole last week as it seems kegging this beer just isn’t going my way haha.. and I don’t want it wasting away in the keg while doing nothing. Appreciate any advice on how to proceed!
You could carb it naturally with 2 oz of corn sugar, have to open it up to put it in but kegs are kept at room temp to carb up so there wouldn't be any rush for a week or so. Just purge w/ Co2 if you open it. Other option is wet towels with a fan blowing on it (evaporative cooling) or chill it with ice in a 5 gal bucket.
Thanks. Read it and learned something.
So this is what’s happening...
The things we come up with for homebrewing haha. I have the keg sitting in a bucket, surrounded by ice. Then, the bucket inside the bottom cooler, surrounded by ice. Packed with blankets. I just dropped a temp probe in there.. currently 38*. I’m a bit amazed myself that it’s working haha. So I’ll keep restocking the ice and keeping an eye on the temp, but it appears this is the route I will go.. and hope I can get my fridge this week to move it into. But if the temp stays at 38, I’m gonna continue with my original plan, just a couple days late.
I don’t know if letting it sit in the keg for a few extra days at room temp will cause any ill effects to the beer or not, but we will find out.
This is easily the most makeshift thing I’ve had to do in the name of homebrewing... holding out hope the beer still turns out okay.
The things we come up with for homebrewing haha. I have the keg sitting in a bucket, surrounded by ice. Then, the bucket inside the bottom cooler, surrounded by ice. Packed with blankets. I just dropped a temp probe in there.. currently 38*. I’m a bit amazed myself that it’s working haha. So I’ll keep restocking the ice and keeping an eye on the temp, but it appears this is the route I will go.. and hope I can get my fridge this week to move it into. But if the temp stays at 38, I’m gonna continue with my original plan, just a couple days late.
I don’t know if letting it sit in the keg for a few extra days at room temp will cause any ill effects to the beer or not, but we will find out.
This is easily the most makeshift thing I’ve had to do in the name of homebrewing... holding out hope the beer still turns out okay.
Sorry autocorrect changed FV (fermenting vessel) to FB. SV is serving vessel as others noted. And yes you must use gravity but as long as it's not too high above it shouldn't suck in any more than pressurized transfer.
Dialed back the 30psi to about 5 as somehow my hobo refrigerator is maintaining 33*. Couldn’t help myself, had to take a pull.
Aroma is amazing, and it’s a got a bite, but also very crushable. Despite all the issues I ran into and all my worries.. If this is what a beer full of errors tastes like, I’ll be surprised if this keg lasts me 3 weeks. Pleasantly happy with this beer right now.. and excited to keep trying it over the next couple weeks.
Thanks again to everyone who helped and offered advice, I greatly appreciate it.
Aroma is amazing, and it’s a got a bite, but also very crushable. Despite all the issues I ran into and all my worries.. If this is what a beer full of errors tastes like, I’ll be surprised if this keg lasts me 3 weeks. Pleasantly happy with this beer right now.. and excited to keep trying it over the next couple weeks.
Thanks again to everyone who helped and offered advice, I greatly appreciate it.
samandbekah
Well-Known Member
Has anyone tried the OP's recipe and dry hopping process (2 days into active fermentation) but with the Vermont Ale yeast by the Yeast Bay?
I am assuming its very similar to Conan (if not derived from it) and I have been following their process for dry hopping on their website however I am so intrigued with the results everyone has had here with throwing all the dry hops in for bio-transformation...
https://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/vermont-ale
I have gotten great results following the Yeast Bay directions for this yeast but I still haven't gotten that "right out of the hop bag" aroma I am looking for - and what some of you here have successfully described...
I am assuming its very similar to Conan (if not derived from it) and I have been following their process for dry hopping on their website however I am so intrigued with the results everyone has had here with throwing all the dry hops in for bio-transformation...
https://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/vermont-ale
I have gotten great results following the Yeast Bay directions for this yeast but I still haven't gotten that "right out of the hop bag" aroma I am looking for - and what some of you here have successfully described...
I used that yeast last year in a couple other recipes and compared to LA3, I probably won’t use it again. The flavor is noticeably different with LA3, and I’m getting tons of in-your-face hop flavor and aroma this time around. Granted, I kegged this one vs bottled last year, but even the premature samples I could tell tasted better.
Both yeasts seem to work at about the same speed, but I guess it just comes down to your flavor preference. I feel like the Vermont strain was more yeasty and didn’t allow the hops to come through as much as LA3 has. Just my take on the two. But I have not tried with this recipe, I used it in the Julius clone recipe thread here.
Both yeasts seem to work at about the same speed, but I guess it just comes down to your flavor preference. I feel like the Vermont strain was more yeasty and didn’t allow the hops to come through as much as LA3 has. Just my take on the two. But I have not tried with this recipe, I used it in the Julius clone recipe thread here.
samandbekah
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What is LA3? - are you referring to the 1318 being adored on this thread? Or is that something else?
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
london ale III - wy1318
samandbekah
Well-Known Member
Thanks... Curious to hear everyone's feedback as well who had tried the Vermont strain in comparison
Just an update.. the color of this beer is fantastic! Brought a growler of it to a homebrew meeting and everyone loved it. Made sure to bring it now before the oxidation sets in [emoji23]... but so far so good!
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Seemed pretty muted when compared with 1318. I did a pretty standard temp profile with it — started 66ish and stepped up to 71ish by day 7.
I have had conan beers that were great, if done right it really throws off an awesome peach ester. I’m thinking maybe ferment a tad warmer for that. Some early Aslin beers come to mind. Might try to fiddle with fermenting in the low 70s some batch soon.
Mothman
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I feel like I'll have to try this recipe again... mine turned out as a fairly standard west-coast type IPA... fairly bitter, quite clear, not a ton of fruity flavour... totally not what most seem to be getting out of it. lol
It's still good... I just poured a 4-month-old bottle tonight and enjoyed it ... it just never was very NE-IPA-ish.
It's still good... I just poured a 4-month-old bottle tonight and enjoyed it ... it just never was very NE-IPA-ish.
samandbekah
Well-Known Member
I've been reading on other forums (I'll have to dig through my browser history to quote that) that if you want to really make Conan (assuming that's what this strain is) pop you need to ferment at the lower range around 64... And that temp brings out the peach....Thoughts?
That being said... I've been brewing with Citra and Amarillo hops for years and have always been chasing that "out of the bag" aroma... I can have my cheap moments but if I'm wasting my time with this Vermont strain I'll gladly flip to 1318 given the success everyone describes on this thread.
Lastly... I'm also curious if it's the strain itself or the process... I'm still learning about fermentation under pressure but if that is what really produces the aromas... I'd be tempted to stick with my Vermont ale harvest and try the pressure ferment route out
samandbekah
Well-Known Member
Hence the chase of homebrewing... I'm curious to see the results of a similar recipe but fermented at 64 throughout until the last couple days to assist it finishing out attenuation...
My experience with it has been starting at 64 and then moving up gradually a degree or two per day until day 5/6 where I'm at 70 to 72 range then hold for another day or two. Thinking I'll try 64 throughout then bump up to 70/71 day 5/6 and report the results.
I have a few kegs handy to sacrifice if needed for fermenting under pressure and bunging but I'm really curious to find out if that's the success factor for aroma lock or is it temperature...
couchsending
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To get max peach Conan needs to be underpitched rather drastically and fermented warm, 68 then up to 72 after a few days.
People think that because you get peach from US05 fermented cold, the same works for Conan.. it doesn’t.
You want out of the bag aroma you need to dry hop with as little yeast present as possible and dry hop in the low 60s. You either need a Conical so you can cool and dump yeast prior to DH or cool and transfer to another vessel without significant O2 pickup, which is no easy.
People think that because you get peach from US05 fermented cold, the same works for Conan.. it doesn’t.
You want out of the bag aroma you need to dry hop with as little yeast present as possible and dry hop in the low 60s. You either need a Conical so you can cool and dump yeast prior to DH or cool and transfer to another vessel without significant O2 pickup, which is no easy.
stickyfinger
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what kind of underpitch are we talking? do i have a ballpark of cell #s?
couchsending
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2-4 mil/ml depending on how fresh the yeasties are.
Thanks for the feedback, might have to give that a try.
stickyfinger
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yeah, me too. unfortunately i built up a mr malty pitch level with my Imperial Dryhop (trying it for the first time) That's a big pack of yeast to start with!
samandbekah
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Do you mind providing where you learned/know this from? Not saying I don't believe you or even disagree, rather I am in the process of experimenting with the Vermont Ale strain by the Yeast Bay (which I believe rumors are that it is derived from Conan) and I am trying to gather as much information as possible.
In my own research I've read that you really want to stay in low 60s (below 64 I believe) to get the "max" out of Conan and then ramp up the last couple days to finish attenuating.
I'd be very interested in reading the counter argument to that - now I have to go find where I read fermenting in the low 60s and read that again.
couchsending
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Why do you think the esters would come from low temp? You want max fruit from anything except for US05 you generally ferment it warm. My info came from Nick at the Yeast Bay. It’s also basically what Kimmich recommends in Mitch Steele’s IPA book.
Keg "finally" kicked last Thursday night. Lasted a little over 2 weeks once fully carbed.. Just in time, since I brewed up a different NE IPA this past weekend.
My final notes on it: tasted great til the last drop. I tried to keep the temp inside that cooler maintained between 34-36 which worked well (I still have not gotten my fridge yet, btw..). I left the 2.5oz of hops inside the keg through the duration of it, which was roughly 3.5 weeks and I did not get any grassy, earthy, etc. flavors. The beer was on the bitter side (I'm not sure if melcher street is like that, or if it's because I added more hops than the original recipe had), but I don't mind that as I prefer bitter beers. As much as I worried about how this beer would turn out, it was more for nothing... It was fantastic, even with the minimal issues I ran into.
I definitely plan on brewing this again in the future... Great recipe. Everyone who tried it loved it. Thanks again to everyone who helped with the simple and difficult questions.
My final notes on it: tasted great til the last drop. I tried to keep the temp inside that cooler maintained between 34-36 which worked well (I still have not gotten my fridge yet, btw..). I left the 2.5oz of hops inside the keg through the duration of it, which was roughly 3.5 weeks and I did not get any grassy, earthy, etc. flavors. The beer was on the bitter side (I'm not sure if melcher street is like that, or if it's because I added more hops than the original recipe had), but I don't mind that as I prefer bitter beers. As much as I worried about how this beer would turn out, it was more for nothing... It was fantastic, even with the minimal issues I ran into.
I definitely plan on brewing this again in the future... Great recipe. Everyone who tried it loved it. Thanks again to everyone who helped with the simple and difficult questions.
samandbekah
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Has anyone fermented this in a conical fermenter? Brewed a similar recipe but used the same dry hop schedule the OP discusses here.
I did not cold crash before trying to complete a closed transfer (failed miserably due to hop particles blocking the keg poppet).
If you have with a conical - I'm assuming cold crashing is an absolute must and then drop the yeast/hops out? Otherwise I don't see how you can complete the closed transfer to a keg without plugging something up...
Just brewed another variation of this recipe and my plan this time is to let it cold crash for 24-48 hours prior to kegging.
I did not cold crash before trying to complete a closed transfer (failed miserably due to hop particles blocking the keg poppet).
If you have with a conical - I'm assuming cold crashing is an absolute must and then drop the yeast/hops out? Otherwise I don't see how you can complete the closed transfer to a keg without plugging something up...
Just brewed another variation of this recipe and my plan this time is to let it cold crash for 24-48 hours prior to kegging.
couchsending
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What Conical are you using? Unless you’re gonna bag em you will need to crash. I put my Co2 transfer valve on when I add DH and try to maintain head pressure as I crash.
samandbekah
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I use the SS Brewtech Half-barrel Chronical with FTSS for chilling/temp control. It's not designed to handle pressure so not sure I'd be able to do that unless I keep it at say 1-2 PSI (rate at which it says it can handle for pressurized transfers).
How long did you crash for? My recipe calls for 1lb of hops in this dry hop addition so I'll definitely need to drop those out and dump through the cone.
popquizkid
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When I started doing large dry hops in the fermenter I ran into similar clogging issues.
Use an in-line strainer in between the fermenter and keg. You can dry hop in fermenter and transfer without worrying about clogs. It really works great and is a rather inexpensive solution if you make a lot of IPAs.
http://www.vacmotion.com/Products/Main_Inlinestrainers.aspx
samandbekah
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Have you had success even with pellet hops? If so - up to how much? How do you have these connected - or what tubing/hardware are you using? Has it acted as any sort of filter that has knocked out some flavor/aroma/body?
