Treehouse Brewing Julius Clone

[kchomebrew]

Aroma and flavor are significantly more pronounced when keg/Brite tank hopping. Just drop the hops into your filter device (any of the stainless mesh tubes sold work) and purge the keg and then add in the beer from the fermenter and let it sit between 40-50degrees for a few hours and then carbonate per whatever your process is.

 

[bg1414]

1318, golden promise, oats, honey malt, white wheat and c60. Hopped with columbus, citra and amarillo

View attachment 1456969207441.jpg

 

[olotti]

1318, golden promise, oats, honey malt, white wheat and c60. Hopped with columbus, citra and amarillo

Looks good. I'm about to brew my first batch with 1318 using very close to that same grain bill, hops will be ctz,Galaxy and mosaic. What was your fg on that beer.

 

[bg1414]

1.013

 

[jammin]

1318, golden promise, oats, honey malt, white wheat and c60. Hopped with columbus, citra and amarillo

Beautiful pint. The c60 is against my religion though.

Mind if I ask what % of the grist you used it as? Also wait your thoughts of how it tastes in the beer in case comparison to the "drier" beers you've tried?

 

[rawlus]

In simple terms, proteins, tannins, and yeast come in contact with polyphenols, humulinones, raw AA%, ect.. during dry hopping. These compounds bind with suspended yeast and form a haze, similar to chill haze. It has little to do with hop oils. If you were to remove protein and yeast before dry hopping, you'd end up with a clearer beer because these compounds (mostly polyphenols) wouldn't have as much to bind to. The reason small breweries are making hazy IPAs is simple… they are adding lots of hops to yeasty/protein rich beer and not centrifuging or filtering, allowing the yeast to stay in suspension.

If your goal is achieve a hazy/turbid IPA, brew with high protein malts (wheat/rye/oats) and dry hop when there is still some yeast activity. Don’t fine or filter. Yeast choice does play a role here - both with haze and hop character - although much of the said benefits of hazy IPA yeasts (conan/1318) is conjecture.

So why brew a hazy IPA? The super hazy IPA trend goes against a lot of what we have learned about achieving traditional hop aroma/flavor. Hazy IPAs are not necessarily more hoppy (oil concentration wise) than non-hazy or clear IPAs. The opposite is often true. However, what is different is that hazy IPA’s contain more haze forming compounds (namely yeast, non-isomerized alpha, polyphenol, tannins, chlorophyl, humuininones, ect) than clearer beer. These compounds are quite flavorful and people have become accustomed to their character, so much that we now have the “NE style IPA” as a mark of difference. Of course, mouthfeel and bitterness also play a role here.

What is important is that these other compounds do not readily contribute to what could be considered “true to type” or “definable” hop character. You can use soup as an analogy… throw in the whole spice rack and you’ll be hard pressed to pick out singular flavors. Yeast and hops sort of work the same way, you lose certain aroma/flavors in favor of others. That’s not to say one type of IPA is worse or better, just different. I enjoy them both. Although I don’t expect a turbid NE style IPA to be winning at GABF anytime soon.

I guess it depends if you are brewing to win awards or brewing to win customers...

I don't think the hazy east coast IPA movement is lessening and the lines for this type of beer are getting longer, longer than ANY "true to style" IPA has ever had to my recollection, so my sense is the judging will adjust to accommodate consumer preference, if it doesn't, then it's an empty award anyway.

 

[KVANTAN]

These beers are popping up all over the country in very small batches.

 

[tagz]

Weird. I don't get the super cloudy thing. I'll take a bright clear beer with a fluffy white head to a murky/muddy pour any day. Really blows my mind that people are trying to make opaque beer.

 

[kyleetrotter]

Weird. I don't get the super cloudy thing. I'll take a bright clear beer with a fluffy white head to a murky/muddy pour any day. Really blows my mind that people are trying to make opaque beer.

What does it matter? Just because you're used to clear beers doesn't mean the cloudy ones aren't any good. Have you tried a New England style IPA yet? The haze from the higher than usual amt of hops, oats, and 1318/conan yeast definitely give it a unique taste unlike any other IPAs (that a lot of people love).

 

[TxBigHops]

Weird. I don't get the super cloudy thing. I'll take a bright clear beer with a fluffy white head to a murky/muddy pour any day. Really blows my mind that people are trying to make opaque beer.

I think the point is that the method of brewing this amazingly flavorful beer happens to result in a beer that is cloudy. Not the other way around.

 

[tjmac5071]

Weird. I don't get the super cloudy thing. I'll take a bright clear beer with a fluffy white head to a murky/muddy pour any day. Really blows my mind that people are trying to make opaque beer.

Some people may be trying to make opaque beer for the sake of making opaque beer but I would guess the majority are seeking the qualities that are a result of certain techniques that result in murky beer. I think many would be fine if the beer were crystal clear and still possessed the silky mouthfeel they are after. I find it odd that a homebrewer or craft beer fan would care more about appearance than taste/mouthfeel.

With that said I personally enjoy both murky new england ipas and crystal clear West coast-just depends on the mood I am in.

 

[tagz]

No offense intended. Just surprising to me. I've had heady and the like but I've had crystal clear beers with amazing hop flavor and great mouthfeel. I don't put appearance above taste, because it's possible to have both. Plus, appearance is all part of the experience of drinking a beer. It's like food. A great chef is going to make the plate look amazing because it adds to the enjoyment.

Edit: Sorry. I didn't mean to derail the thread.

 

[Snubnoze707]

No offense intended. Just surprising to me. I've had heady and the like but I've had crystal clear beers with amazing hop flavor and great mouthfeel. I don't put appearance above taste, because it's possible to have both. Plus, appearance is all part of the experience of drinking a beer. It's like food. A great chef is going to make the plate look amazing because it adds to the enjoyment.

Edit: Sorry. I didn't mean to derail the thread.

You're right, appearance does matter. Hence the draw towards turbid hop concentrated pales that resemble a glass of juice.

Sante Adairus - Simpleton

 

[Ruckusz28]

Well, my experiment with using the TH yeast was a fail. The whole batch is a drain pour.

Sunday, when I bottled there were no off flavors. All was well for my first attempt. I yielded about 18 bottles. Yesterday I cracked one and it was gnarly. The color turned to a murky mud / sand brown. The aroma was all butterscotch. The taste was plastic and rubber. It had nice hop flavor behind that though. I don't believe it to be an infection since there was no tartness and all equipment was thoroughly sanitized for 48 hours.

Here's where I think I went wrong. In the past I've had good experience heating the bottled beer to speed up bottle carbonation. I have an insulated box that has a heat pad underneath. Rather than waiting to apply the heat, I applied the heat to the bottles immediately. Apparently my temperature regulator went on the fritz because it got kind of hot in there over 3 days. I feel the heat caused some sort of mutation in the yeast.

Lesson learned. I'll use 1318 next time and bottle condition the old fashioned way.

Can I interest any of you in a hoppy dessert gravy? lol.

 

[mbbransc]

You're right, appearance does matter. Hence the draw towards turbid hop concentrated pales that resemble a glass of juice.

Sante Adairus - Simpleton

The irony of that murky beer sitting on a Heretic coaster is not lost on me!

 

[bg1414]

Beautiful pint. The c60 is against my religion though.

Mind if I ask what % of the grist you used it as? Also wait your thoughts of how it tastes in the beer in case comparison to the "drier" beers you've tried?

2.5% C60. It's definitely not as dry as other beers I've had. I would like it a touch more "juicy", but overall it tastes great, nice body, is smooth and not overly bitter

 

[orangehero]

Well, my experiment with using the TH yeast was a fail. The whole batch is a drain pour.

Sunday, when I bottled there were no off flavors. All was well for my first attempt. I yielded about 18 bottles. Yesterday I cracked one and it was gnarly. The color turned to a murky mud / sand brown. The aroma was all butterscotch. The taste was plastic and rubber. It had nice hop flavor behind that though. I don't believe it to be an infection since there was no tartness and all equipment was thoroughly sanitized for 48 hours.

Here's where I think I went wrong. In the past I've had good experience heating the bottled beer to speed up bottle carbonation. I have an insulated box that has a heat pad underneath. Rather than waiting to apply the heat, I applied the heat to the bottles immediately. Apparently my temperature regulator went on the fritz because it got kind of hot in there over 3 days. I feel the heat caused some sort of mutation in the yeast.

Lesson learned. I'll use 1318 next time and bottle condition the old fashioned way.

Can I interest any of you in a hoppy dessert gravy? lol.

It sounds like you need to look at your sanitation, cleaning, and racking practices. All contaminations don't necessarily come with "tartness".

I don't know what thoroughly sanitized for 48 hours means. All you need is to sanitize for less than minute with a spray bottle of star San. If you are using star San you aren't supposed to let it dry.

 

[jasonfitzg]

This is a recipe that I brewed recently...Tastes very similar to Haze (I had fresh Haze on hand to compare. The KEY is Conan...The head retention wasn't very good because temps dropped to -20°F overnight during the force carbing (froze the keg solid) and messed things up, but it tastes amazing...expensive, but amazing. Mash @ 148°F, ferment @64°F (I also added 2oz. mosaic in the keg for good measure)& I start the whirlpool @ 170°F, running the wort chiller until I hit 150° for a 30 min. stand. Was a little lazy on the mash...should have done a better sparge, so my efficiency suffered, resulting in a lower abv, but this is a great starting point, rolling into my brew season.

 

[ultravista]

My experience with haze ... I brewed a Pliny Clone with Conan. Post-fermentation, the beer was clear. With the second dose of dry hops (3 ounce), the beer is now very hazy. They keg has been @ ambient temperature in the garage, about 65 F. The two dry hop rounds, 6 ounce total, changed the appearance dramatically.

 

[Ruckusz28]

It sounds like you need to look at your sanitation, cleaning, and racking practices. All contaminations don't necessarily come with "tartness".

I don't know what thoroughly sanitized for 48 hours means. All you need is to sanitize for less than minute with a spray bottle of star San. If you are using star San you aren't supposed to let it dry.

It means that it sat for 24 hours in an oxygen based cleaner and then another 24 hours in starsan prior to use. That's pretty thorough! Almost unnecessarily thorough. Regardless, i'll replace that portion of the equipment.

The diacetyl either came from an infection or temperature in the bottles.

I'll crack a few more tonight.. I doubt it, but perhaps it was isolated to only one bottle.

 

[Rhaegar92]

It means that it sat for 24 hours in an oxygen based cleaner and then another 24 hours in starsan prior to use. That's pretty thorough! Almost unnecessarily thorough. Regardless, i'll replace that portion of the equipment.

The diacetyl either came from an infection or temperature in the bottles.

I'll crack a few more tonight.. I doubt it, but perhaps it was isolated to only one bottle.

It's not sanitation that's the issue, it's the heat. In general heat can influence microbes, and especially in yeast, where their secondary metabolites are what we enjoy tasting, variations in temperature can produce dramatically different flavors. I did a mental facepalm when I read that you used a heating plate to bottle carb I'd bet quite a few Lbs of hops that if you redid everything minus the heating, you'd have a mighty fine beer

 

[Ruckusz28]

It's not sanitation that's the issue, it's the heat. In general heat can influence microbes, and especially in yeast, where their secondary metabolites are what we enjoy tasting, variations in temperature can produce dramatically different flavors. I did a mental facepalm when I read that you used a heating plate to bottle carb I'd bet quite a few Lbs of hops that if you redid everything minus the heating, you'd have a mighty fine beer

That's what I was leaning toward, but I needed some confirmation and to understand the science behind why. Thanks for the feedback. That's one way to learn! I did give a few bottles to my neighbor that I don't like

I'll re-brew and let it carbonate the old fashioned way. Or until my tax return comes back and I buy a cheapo kegging setup.

 

[orangehero]

I don't know what kind of heat pad you have but I'm skeptical 3 days of kinda hot would ruin a beer. Now if it was contaminated and/or oxygenated, then that would certainly speed up the process. I routinely place freshly bottled beer in my fermentation chamber and hold it at 75°F, even 80°F, for a week or more to accelerate the carbonation.

 

[lilbova3]

We're off topic, but I've had some bottles get murky brown and believe it to be oxidation. Had a brewer taste one and he said it tasted and smelled like cheese which is isovaleric acid from oxidized hops or hops oils. All hops smelled fine before using and are stored in a freezer so I'm pinpointing it as oxidation. All my stuff has tasted good pre-bottle so I'm thinking it's the bottling process.

Here's my latest batch I bottled yesterday. Hope it turns out!
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1457042200.794861.jpg

 

[olotti]

This was bottled a week ago still needs another few days to fully carb but it's turbid, literally no light gets through it. This is my second beer using Conan and I split the dry hops in this one and did the first edition at the tail end of active fermentation and the second two days before bottling so that'd be days 5 and 10 then bottled. I'm starting to believe in this dry hopping during the tail end of fermentation to retain hop oils in suspension. Grain bill was MO, flaked wheat, C10, flaked oats and carapils. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1457140259.385775.jpg

 

[mosaicbrewer]

would it totally boggle everyone's mind if this beer was fermented with a very common dry yeast that flocs pretty well?

 

[m00se]

would it totally boggle everyone's mind if this beer was fermented with a very common dry yeast that flocs pretty well?

Not one bit

 

[olotti]

would it totally boggle everyone's mind if this beer was fermented with a very common dry yeast that flocs pretty well?

I wouldn't be surprised but I've seen a lot of YouTube reviews mention the juicy fruit, peachy thing and that would lead me to think their yeast is either Conan or 1318 as I've never got those favors from 04 or 05 or even nitty or Windsor. But if ithat was the case then I guess we could boil the haziness down to massive amounts of dry hopping or grain bill like more flaked wheat or oats or more likely it'd be a combination of the both. Also Not sure if this has ever been represented by treehouse but what are Ibus for their beers? If they were building off of Alchamist than maybe TH dipas are in the over 100 Ibu range and like heady just massive amounts of whirlpool and dry hops to create a haze.

 

[Ruckusz28]

This was bottled a week ago still needs another few days to fully carb but it's turbid, literally no light gets through it. This is my second beer using Conan and I split the dry hops in this one and did the first edition at the tail end of active fermentation and the second two days before bottling so that'd be days 5 and 10 then bottled. I'm starting to believe in this dry hopping during the tail end of fermentation to retain hop oils in suspension. Grain bill was MO, flaked wheat, C10, flaked oats and carapils. View attachment 341786

That's how my gross batch looked.

 

[Ruckusz28]

would it totally boggle everyone's mind if this beer was fermented with a very common dry yeast that flocs pretty well?

You may be right.
That's half the fun of home brewing.

than maybe TH dipas are in the over 100 Ibu range and like heady just massive amounts of whirlpool and dry hops to create a haze.

Ring that bell, I think you're on the right track.

 

[Oldsock]

High levels of chloride also hinder yeast flocculation, could be part of the reason these usually easy clearing strains end up making cloudy beers.

 

[kaz4121]

Update: Spotted Rahr 2-row and Weyerman CaraFoam at the brewery today, could be a potential ingredients in Julius. The former isn't a big deal but the latter may be.

 

[noslenwerd]

This is a recipe that I brewed recently...Tastes very similar to Haze (I had fresh Haze on hand to compare. The KEY is Conan...The head retention wasn't very good because temps dropped to -20°F overnight during the force carbing (froze the keg solid) and messed things up, but it tastes amazing...expensive, but amazing. Mash @ 148°F, ferment @64°F (I also added 2oz. mosaic in the keg for good measure)& I start the whirlpool @ 170°F, running the wort chiller until I hit 150° for a 30 min. stand. Was a little lazy on the mash...should have done a better sparge, so my efficiency suffered, resulting in a lower abv, but this is a great starting point, rolling into my brew season.

Thanks for sharing.

So if I am reading this right, you didn't add any hops until 7 minutes in? (other than mash hoping) No bittering hops?

 

[noslenwerd]

Update: Spotted Rahr 2-row and Weyerman CaraFoam at the brewery today, could be a potential ingredients in Julius. The former isn't a big deal but the latter may be.

Interestinggg...

Now the question is, how much to add to my grain bill.

 

[ryancrook]

and how many White Rags should I use?

 

[noslenwerd]

Sidenote: this is a great article about Mouthfeel and "Softness"

http://scottjanish.com/chasing-mouthfeel-softness/

 

[TheHairyHop]

I have a lot to catch up on this thread, but I'd like to add my experience with hazy IPAs.

I brewed an IPA with some wheat and wlp644. It was clear in the keg, but after traveling in a car to the party, it looked like a smoothie. The fruit flavors were out of this world. People were calling it mulberry mush. I bottled some, but it cleared up and lost a lot of that intense flavor. I wished that I could get it like that every time :/

 

[noslenwerd]

This might be a stupid question, but people who have tried a clone recipe... Do you filter out your hops before adding to the fermenter? Or do you leave them in?

*puts on flame suit*

 

[Snubnoze707]

This might be a stupid question, but people who have tried a clone recipe... Do you filter out your hops before adding to the fermenter? Or do you leave them in?

*puts on flame suit*

You mean the hops from the kettle? I always leave that behind regardless of style. I use a big paint strainer bag in a spider in my kettle when doing a lot of hop additions.

 

[noslenwerd]

You mean the hops from the kettle? I always leave that behind regardless of style. I use a big paint strainer bag in a spider in my kettle when doing a lot of hop additions.

Correct in the kettle

Good deal I will just dump it all into the carboy unfiltered.