Treehouse Brewing Julius Clone
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Well, there really are no BAD strains.. just some I prefer over others. In my experience, the bottom of the barrel is the Omega DIPA yeast.
Yes. LA3 has more of an apple fruit flavor. Its very subdued when compared to Conan. Conan is all peach. The esters are more prevalent. Then again, you can alter your pitch rate / temps / etc to extract more or less esters.
I've crossed the line as well when making my "green" clone. It'll settle down in time. I just bottled mine and forgot about it for a month. Afterward, it was right on
fatnhappy
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I've crossed the line as well when making my "green" clone. It'll settle down in time. I just bottled mine and forgot about it for a month. Afterward, it was right on
It tastes really good, but was closer to Julius before the keg hop. Don't know if it will last a month to see if it settles down though (which is a good thing). The color also went from spot on to kind of greenish and a bit muddy
stickyfinger
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the green, larger hop particles should drop out within a week or less in my experience.
stickyfinger
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To me, the LA3 has a very strong peach/apricot character. I haven't compared it with conan though. and, i've only used Omega Conan, which I guess isn't people's favorite, so i can't compare conan and LA3. The one IPA I used the LA3 on though had a very strong fruity character. I can't wait to get some imperial Conan yeast or other fruity Conan and try it out.
JoeMamasIPA
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Check out my post in this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=582960
Also, I used the Omega DIPA yeast that seems to be less desired but I could smell the peach off the starter and then the fermenter from 3 feet away. Used a larger starter for this as well, 1.5L in a 2 gallon batch.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=582960
Also, I used the Omega DIPA yeast that seems to be less desired but I could smell the peach off the starter and then the fermenter from 3 feet away. Used a larger starter for this as well, 1.5L in a 2 gallon batch.
Little_Lebowski
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Brewing the BYO recipe tomorrow to the "T". Haven't followed any recipes in quite a while so I hope it's not a let down. Will post some notes as I go along brew day and fermentation. Cheers
Little_Lebowski
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That's all I'm hoping for. We had rain so brew day was postponed till tomorrow
brianbrinley
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Does anyone have the BYO clone recipe? I can't find my october issue with the recipe and im awaiting the digital access to byo.com
I always use irish moss and it does not impact the haze. My early batches did not turn out well and I partially attribute that to the lack of irish moss or whirlfloc. YMMV.
Oldskewl
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Check out Post #623 of this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7746218&postcount=623
I brewed my second clone attempt last Sunday. I used @fatnhappy grain bill... thanks @fatnhappy for posting it.
Hops:
1 oz Centennial @ 60 min.
1 oz Citra @ 5 min.
1 oz Amarillo @ 5 min.
1.5 oz Citra @ flameout
0.75 oz Amarillo @ flameout
0.75 oz Simcoe @ flameout
2 oz Citra 30 min whirlpool at 180*
1 oz Amarillo 30 min whirlpool at 180*
1 oz Simcoe 30 min whirlpool at 180*
2 oz Citra dry hop on 4th day of fermentation
2 oz Amarillo dry hop on 4th day of fermentation
2 oz Simcoe dry hop on 4th day of fermentation
Used 1318
I didn't pitch the yeast until Monday morning. Tuesday morning I had a ton of activity. I have a question about when to throw in the dry hops. I have seen a lot of recipes and suggestions to dry hop during the tail end of fermentation. Or on the 4th or 5th day of fermentation. When do you guys start counting the days of fermentation? The day you pitch or the day you see activity?
Hops:
1 oz Centennial @ 60 min.
1 oz Citra @ 5 min.
1 oz Amarillo @ 5 min.
1.5 oz Citra @ flameout
0.75 oz Amarillo @ flameout
0.75 oz Simcoe @ flameout
2 oz Citra 30 min whirlpool at 180*
1 oz Amarillo 30 min whirlpool at 180*
1 oz Simcoe 30 min whirlpool at 180*
2 oz Citra dry hop on 4th day of fermentation
2 oz Amarillo dry hop on 4th day of fermentation
2 oz Simcoe dry hop on 4th day of fermentation
Used 1318
I didn't pitch the yeast until Monday morning. Tuesday morning I had a ton of activity. I have a question about when to throw in the dry hops. I have seen a lot of recipes and suggestions to dry hop during the tail end of fermentation. Or on the 4th or 5th day of fermentation. When do you guys start counting the days of fermentation? The day you pitch or the day you see activity?
stickyfinger
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I've had good luck throwing in all of my dry hops after the yeast has reached its peak fermentation (large krausen.) So, I wait for peak krausen, it starts subsiding some by maybe day 4 or 5 and then dump in all of my dry hops and swirl twice per day until you keg it. Works well.
I just scaled the BYO recipe up to 7 gallons then rounded the hop schedule a bit.
1oz warrior at FWH
2oz each or Citra and Mosaic + 1oz Simcoe in whirlpool at 180 deg for 30 minutes
Just brewed it day before yesterday so will add two editions of dry hops.
2oz Citra 1.5oz Mosaic 1oz Simcoe.
Once fermentation slows I usually rack this beer under gas to a secondary for the other edition, otherwise it's just too much hops when it's time to keg. Never had a Julius being on the west coast but I'm looking forward to trying this one.
1oz warrior at FWH
2oz each or Citra and Mosaic + 1oz Simcoe in whirlpool at 180 deg for 30 minutes
Just brewed it day before yesterday so will add two editions of dry hops.
2oz Citra 1.5oz Mosaic 1oz Simcoe.
Once fermentation slows I usually rack this beer under gas to a secondary for the other edition, otherwise it's just too much hops when it's time to keg. Never had a Julius being on the west coast but I'm looking forward to trying this one.
Gustatorian
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Is there any benefit in waiting to pitch the yeast?
Not sure if there are any benefits. I didn't pitch because I was waiting for the wort to get down to pitching temp and I had to crash out for my graveyard shift.
So people saying that the BYO recipe is wrong.. do we have a best approximation somewhere in this thread? I've gone back pretty far but can't really seem to see much of a methodical approach..
I would help, but I'm never going to get this beer in Scotland
I would help, but I'm never going to get this beer in Scotland
So any consensus on the hops used here. I'm gonna do an IPA coming up and thinking of using Citra, Amarillo and simcoe with Conan yeast I've been using so it's on the 4th gen. Then prob a grain bill of marris otter, with about 8oz ea. Of c10, oats and carapils. What have u guys been bittering with I typically use Columbus but may go a more neutral hop like warrior or magnum for this.
brianbrinley
Active Member
So people saying that the BYO recipe is wrong.. do we have a best approximation somewhere in this thread? I've gone back pretty far but can't really seem to see much of a methodical approach..
I would help, but I'm never going to get this beer in Scotland
not sure but just judging by the ingredients, theres no way its not going to end up as a beautiful and hazy IPA.
JoeMamasIPA
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So people saying that the BYO recipe is wrong.. do we have a best approximation somewhere in this thread? I've gone back pretty far but can't really seem to see much of a methodical approach..
I would help, but I'm never going to get this beer in Scotland
Post 648 is as close as it gets. Tastes exactly like Julius. Keg hopping is definitely key in addition to making sure not one molecule of oxygen touches the beer. Let me know if you have more specific questions.
Confused by this. Post 648 links to a recipe from Nate coined as "hoppy thing" which was created specifically for the magazine it appeared in. It is nothing like Julius nor is it a Julius clone provided by Nate. Am I missing something?
JoeMamasIPA
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648 links to a post by me in the BIAB subforum that then further links to one of Nate's recipes. Use the BIAB recipe, Conan yeast, and keep the Centennial out of the dryhop. It tastes exactly like Julius.
So people saying that the BYO recipe is wrong.. do we have a best approximation somewhere in this thread? I've gone back pretty far but can't really seem to see much of a methodical approach..
I would help, but I'm never going to get this beer in Scotland
We did the BYO recipe. Kegged last week. It's not close. I live 50 miles from Treehouse and a buddy brought a bottle over yesterday. We tasted them side by side. I'm actually going back & forth with him now building a new recipe from scratch. Here's what we're thinking so far:
80% Golden Promise or Marris Otter
15% Flaked Oats
5% Carapils
Hops: TBD
Yeast: Wyeast 1318
If anyone feels they nailed the hops for this beer, please chime in.
Some things that lead us to our conclusions:
- Julius has a clean flavor. Probably not too many ingredients and definitely not the kitchen sink.
- bitterness is pretty balanced and surprisingly milder than you'd think on the front end which is probably what lets the fruitiness & grain bill come through under the hop aroma.
- We believe the base malt is high-quality and flavorful on its own. Possibly Marris Otter or Golden Promise. Furthermore, SRM is in the 3-5 range for Julius which is close to MO or GP without much help from specialty malt.
- Oats is used for NE style cloudiness for sure. The beer is also thick and silky.
- Someone else saw a bag of Carapils at the brewery so we're guessing that might be involved.
- Hop aroma is strong but also clean and complimentary. Citrus, fruity with some mild pine.
How much was the BYO % of oats in comparison to your recipe plan of 15%? (at work and my BYO is at home).
I've read that anything <18% is below detection levels. Additionally, I've read conflicting reports on oats impact to cloudiness, proven that without oats it sill is cloudy (due to early dry hop possibly).
I will use 20%+ oat grist to test, my last was near 18%.
Unfortunately I used a calculator to adjust my aged Nugget (a different NEIPA) for a 30 min addition and while the aroma/flavor was great (also adjusted for other 5 min aged hop additions) the Nugget increase created too much bite on the back end. Otherwise it was a great beer, I like this style!
Thinking also about replacing my 30 min addition next time with FWH.
I'm at work too
and the numbers are not in front of me. I also want to check my copy of Designing Great Beers. I thought they had a % threshold recommendation of grist to avoid protein haze. Might be helpful reference to create haze.Separately, I also belong to an online group Treehouse Home Brewers Club. I see a lot of guys there are attempting clones using oats 12% - 20% of grist which seems to be the accepted range.
JoeMamasIPA
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4 ml HopShot hops extract (or sub for a suitable high AA hop) @ 60 mins
28 g (1 oz) Amarillo @ 20 mins
28 g (1 oz) Centennial @ 20 mins
35 g (1.5 oz) Simcoe @ Flame-out
28 g (1 oz) Amarillo @ Flame-out
28 g (1 oz) Centennial @ Flame-out
Dry Hop
28g (1 oz) Amarillo, dry hop 4 6 days
28g (1 oz) Centennial, dry hop 4 6 days
28g (1 oz) Simcoe, dry hop 4 6 days
Just don't use Centennial in the final dry hop if you DDH or consider eliminating it from the DH altogether.
Well, for one thing, Julius is not sold in bottles so I'm a little bit skeptical already.
The BYO recipe uses U.K. pale ale malt (which is basically the equivalent of MO or GP), about 10% oats and a few miscellaneous additions (honey malt, Carapils). I agree, the grainbill is probably fairly simple, and around 4-6 SRM it doesn't leave you much room for specialty malts. But they definitely have something to improve head retention/lacing, as it lasts for ages. And I would venture to guess that the hop bill is at least 50% Citra, and probably a mix of Simcoe/Centennial/CTZ to balance it out. Not sure I agree with the use of Mosaic -- it's got a very noticeable pineberry pop that I don't get from Julius. If I had a guess:83% Maris Otter
12% Flaked oats
3% Dextrose
2% Carapils
Mash @ 154
CTZ to 60 IBU
4:2.5:1.5 Citra, Simcoe, and CTZ split half at whirlpool and half as a 4 day dry hop
How do you get your beer home? Your hat? They pour it in a bottle/growler smart guy.
Didn't you know that you have to be 100% accurate at all times for your opinion to count?
I've been fortunate enough to try a growler from TH vs. a can. Growler wins hands down. I don't know what it is... Magic rain water from saturn.
On a more constructive note, I don't think this is far off. Marris Otter has good flavor on its own. Flaked oats and Carapils both contribute to mouthfeel and head retention. Oats will produce lacing if used in quantities above 10%. You see that on some Wit beers that use it. I think they are bittering extremely lightly if at all in the beginning of the boil. Otherwise it'd smother the grain bill and fruitiness IMO.
Gustatorian
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I think this looks pretty good too (esp the grist bill). When do you add the 4 day dry hop regimen, after primary fermentation? What temp are you whirlpooling at and do you have a lid on the whirlpool?
I have found there to be a good amount of bitterness added just from WP additions. Most NE style brews I make are clocking in around 4.7-5% rather than 6%+. But maybe give the all WP addition a try and skip bittering or cut the bittering in half or even do a FWH for a little more smoothness.
I went to a LHBS and got some grain for my next brew. I ask them to mill it because I don't have a mill. I ended up getting all my grains milled together in one sack. I wasn't expecting this and was a little upset at first. Then thought it might make an interesting experiment. With the amount of Carapils milled in with the grains it'll push me close to 10%. I usually use 30% for flaked grain and would still like more mouthfeel! I wish it was even softer, rounder. I'm wondering if the 10% will help get me there. One great thing about Carapils is it only adds to mouthfeel. We know we won't get additional color or flavor. We'll see how it goes. Grain bill will look like this.
63% French Pale Ale (that's all he had at LHBS)
15% Flaked Oats
10% White Wheat
10% Carapils
2% Honey Malt
I went to a LHBS and got some grain for my next brew. I ask them to mill it because I don't have a mill. I ended up getting all my grains milled together in one sack. I wasn't expecting this and was a little upset at first. Then thought it might make an interesting experiment. With the amount of Carapils milled in with the grains it'll push me close to 10%. I usually use 30% for flaked grain and would still like more mouthfeel! I wish it was even softer, rounder. I'm wondering if the 10% will help get me there. One great thing about Carapils is it only adds to mouthfeel. We know we won't get additional color or flavor. We'll see how it goes. Grain bill will look like this.
63% French Pale Ale (that's all he had at LHBS)
15% Flaked Oats
10% White Wheat
10% Carapils
2% Honey Malt
Julius is actually quite aggressively bittered, especially in comparison to their other offerings. I would say it's 50-55 IBU from an early bittering hop charge and 0-5 IBU from flameout and whirlpool hops. Whirlpool at ~175F for 30 minutes and dry hop as soon as the krausen dissipates in a purged keg with a spunding valve for blowoff. That is the only way you can achieve the delicate hop aroma in a homebrew setting without exposing the beer to undue oxidation.
They sell Julius in Grolwers, so that is technically a bottle.
When I tried Julius it was not that bitter for an IPA. I think the bitterness is all coming from late hoping only? When I give this a go I'm going to use Cascade, Amarilo, and Citra. I was going to also use Galaxy, but they mentioned it all American hops.
When I tried Julius it was not that bitter for an IPA. I think the bitterness is all coming from late hoping only? When I give this a go I'm going to use Cascade, Amarilo, and Citra. I was going to also use Galaxy, but they mentioned it all American hops.
I think this is a good plan. Personally I'm interested in low/balanced bittering hops with a grain bill like this. Let the sweetness of the grain and fruitiness of a high ester yeast come through and be the hero on the front end then blast out the back end with the citric hop aroma.
Julius definitely does something along these lines. The orange Julius part of the beer is in the front. If they jacked up the bittering in the front, you'd never taste that part.
Just my $0.02
