Toppling Goliath pseudoSue - Can you clone it?

[Hannabrew]

Sorry for the delay...yes I did brew it and it turned out excellent.

I had a couple of issues on brew day, the worst of which was one of the hose clamps on the IC was loose and I sprayed hose water all over my (up until then) perfectly cared for wort but luckily it didn't affect the taste to the point where I noticed any major off-flavors.

I will definitely brew this one again.

Huge thanks to @Braufessor for the assistance!

 

[YeastFeast]

Sorry for the delay...yes I did brew it and it turned out excellent.

I had a couple of issues on brew day, the worst of which was one of the hose clamps on the IC was loose and I sprayed hose water all over my (up until then) perfectly cared for wort but luckily it didn't affect the taste to the point where I noticed any major off-flavors.

I will definitely brew this one again.

Huge thanks to @Braufessor for the assistance!

Thanks for the update. Curious if you taste tested it against Pseudo Sue? Or are you saying in general it turned out excellent? Thanks for your feedback.
Cheers!

 

[Hannabrew]

Thanks for the update. Curious if you taste tested it against Pseudo Sue? Or are you saying in general it turned out excellent? Thanks for your feedback.
Cheers!

I'm no expert taster so I can't compare them apples to apples but I will say that while it didn't look/taste identical, it was in the ballpark and won 9/10 blind tests against PS cans.

 

[YeastFeast]

I'm not expert taster so I can't compare them apples to apples but I will say that while it didn't look/taste identical, it was in the ballpark and won 9/10 blind tests against PS cans.

Excellent. Glad it turned out well!

 

[C89Pilot]

Just got done reading this whopper of a thread. Lots of great information in here.

I'm going to take a stab at this on Saturday. Using suggestions from quite a few people most notably Adaman05, Braufessor, and WiscoBrewer. Let me know if you see anything off-base in my recipe (I'm a rookie with BS)

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 8.24 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
End of Boil Vol: 6.56 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 5.38 gal
Fermentation: ** Sean's Fermentation Profile


Date: 23 Jan 2017
Brewer: Sean Hanna
Equipment: **Sean's Equipment (5 Gal Batch) - All Grain**
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.6 %
Taste Rating: 30.0


6 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 48.1 %
6 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 44.4 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 3 3.7 %
8.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.7 %
0.50 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 25.8 IBUs
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 6 -
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins) Fining 7 -
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 35.0 min Hop 8 46.6 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49 ml] Yeast 10 ( I will make a 2L starter with this)
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs (in keg)


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.060 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.9 %
Bitterness: 72.4 IBUs
Est Color: 5.7 SRM


Mash In Add 18.08 qt of water at 170.0 F 154.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 5.64gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).



Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Keg
Pressure/Weight: 12.54 PSI
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 45.0 F
Fermentation: ** Sean's Fermentation Profile (which is basically primary for 5-7 days, then dry hop for 5 in primary and rack to dry hopped keg for a few more)


Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Carbonation Used: Keg with 12.54 PSI


Cheers!

Hannabrew I want to try to make this but have a couple of questions.

Did you bump down the honey malt to 4 oz and bump up the MO by 4 oz?

For the hop schedule, is it 3oz at flame out for 35 min hop stand and then another 3 after cooling? Or did you add the second 3 oz and then cool?

Thanks

 

[Hannabrew]

Hannabrew I want to try to make this but have a couple of questions.

Did you bump down the honey malt to 4 oz and bump up the MO by 4 oz?

For the hop schedule, is it 3oz at flame out for 35 min hop stand and then another 3 after cooling? Or did you add the second 3 oz and then cool?

Thanks

The hop schedule calls for 3oz at flame out and then another 3oz in a whirlpool. IIRC I turned off the flame, added the hops, turned on the chiller, brought it down to 140ish, then shut it off, started recirculating and then added 3 more oz.

Not sure what you mean by your first question. Bump down/up from what?

 

[YeastFeast]

Not sure what you mean by your first question. Bump down/up from what?

A few pages back in the thread, Brewfessor recommended knocking the honey malt in the recipe down from 8oz to 4oz.

 

[Hannabrew]

Ah yes. I had to double check my recipe but I ended up doing 6# 12 oz MO, 6# pale, and 4 oz honey malt. The rest is the same

 

[enkamania]

Giving this a shot in a few weeks

 

[couchsending]

The hop schedule calls for 3oz at flame out and then another 3oz in a whirlpool. IIRC I turned off the flame, added the hops, turned on the chiller, brought it down to 140ish, then shut it off, started recirculating and then added 3 more oz.

Not sure what you mean by your first question. Bump down/up from what?

Whirlpooling at 140 is pretty much impossible at the commercial scale so I doubt TG is doing that.

 

[Braufessor]

Whirlpooling at 140 is pretty much impossible at the commercial scale so I doubt TG is doing that.

I don't disagree with this..... However, keep in mind - basically nothing translates from a commercial scale to 5 gallons. The goal is not to brew a beer with the same steps, ingredients, and process - the goal is to brew a beer that tastes like the desired goal.
Low temp whirlpool with some of the hops will help get what you are looking for in this beer.... regardless of how TG is getting it.

 

[b-mc-g]

Can I successfully execute this recipe on a 3 gallon batch by just cutting all the ingredients in half?

 

[Kyle]

Going to brew this Friday is there a reason for the 90 min boil or will a 60 min boil be okay?

 

[Braufessor]

Going to brew this Friday is there a reason for the 90 min boil or will a 60 min boil be okay?

60 minute boil is fine. I can't think of any reason to do 90..... I never would.

 

[Kyle]

Brewed this according to hannabrews recipe and while it's not an exact pseudo sue clone I am enjoying this one more. I used all golden promise and didn't tone down the honey malt, but I've gone through probably half a keg of the homebrew and only 3 out of the 4 commercial cans I bought. Great recipe will be making it again!

 

[Hannabrew]

Brewed this according to hannabrews recipe and while it's not an exact pseudo sue clone I am enjoying this one more. I used all golden promise and didn't tone down the honey malt, but I've gone through probably half a keg of the homebrew and only 3 out of the 4 commercial cans I bought. Great recipe will be making it again!

Glad to hear. I take absolutely no credit for the recipe though, that's all Braufessor! So far, none of his recipe's have disappointed.

 

[paarman]

Just glazing over this thread and have a question for those who were comparing the recipe to the cans.. I am presuming, based on the date, that this recipe is being compared to the Florida-brewed version of PsuedoSue which was in cans up until Decorah started brewing it in cans towards the end of 2018?

The bottled and tap version of PsuedoSue is night and day different than the canned Florida version, and IMO not even the same beer. I was looking for a recipe to try brewing the bottled/tap version.. Just curious for those of you that have had that instance (much better) version of the beer, how close this turned out?

For reference (Iowa left, Florida right):

Roughly 2-3 years ago... (Bottled IA left, canned FL right)

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

I believe the original recipe was when you could only find sue in the 22 oz bomber. Before the Florida swill That was pumped out for a while. They're back to in house. I just picked up a 4 pack brewed on 4/3/18

 

[paarman]

I believe the original recipe was when you could only find sue in the 22 oz bomber. Before the Florida swill That was pumped out for a while. They're back to in house. I just picked up a 4 pack brewed on 4/3/18

Awesome. I've been drinking it like crazy since it came back to Decorah as well. I'm not far from there.

May try to give this one a shot then.. I'll have to read through the thread as it seems like there are quite a few varying recipes. Thanks!

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

Start and the end and work backwards. They've been constantly tweaking it

 

[Braufessor]

Where we were ending up was close to the Sue that is on tap in Decorah.... decorah bombers, new decorah cans.... the good stuff. Definitely not shooting for Florida Sue. The information on page 10/11 is probably in the ballpark

Personally, I would probably do something like below:
Water:
100% RO water.
Get into the 125-150 range on chloride
Get into the 60-100 range on Sulfate
Mash pH around 5.3-5.35
(I can give you simple version of this if you have not dealt with water additions before)

Shoot for 1.055-1.06 gravity.

I would make your base malt 90%.... I often use 50/50 blend of 2 Row and Golden Promise, but you could use all 2 Row just as easy.

I would use 8% Flaked malt.... whatever - flaked oats, flaked barley, flaked wheat - whatever you have.

I would use 2% Honey Malt.

Bitter to 30 IBU's with Warrior or some other neutral bittering hop.... maybe a half to 3/4 ounce or so

5-6 ounces of Citra in flame out/whirlpool type additions

5-6 ounces of Citra in Dry hop additions.... I prefer very early - Day 2 of fermentation.

Yeast.... TG does not use 1318 - but, it would be a good yeast for this. 1272 or 007 would work well. Conan would work well. Any of these yeasts would get you in the ballpark.

 

[paarman]

Where we were ending up was close to the Sue that is on tap in Decorah.... decorah bombers, new decorah cans.... the good stuff. Definitely not shooting for Florida Sue. The information on page 10/11 is probably in the ballpark

Personally, I would probably do something like below:
Water:
100% RO water.
Get into the 125-150 range on chloride
Get into the 60-100 range on Sulfate
Mash pH around 5.3-5.35
(I can give you simple version of this if you have not dealt with water additions before)

Shoot for 1.055-1.06 gravity.

I would make your base malt 90%.... I often use 50/50 blend of 2 Row and Golden Promise, but you could use all 2 Row just as easy.

I would use 8% Flaked malt.... whatever - flaked oats, flaked barley, flaked wheat - whatever you have.

I would use 2% Honey Malt.

Bitter to 30 IBU's with Warrior or some other neutral bittering hop.... maybe a half to 3/4 ounce or so

5-6 ounces of Citra in flame out/whirlpool type additions

5-6 ounces of Citra in Dry hop additions.... I prefer very early - Day 2 of fermentation.

Yeast.... TG does not use 1318 - but, it would be a good yeast for this. 1272 or 007 would work well. Conan would work well. Any of these yeasts would get you in the ballpark.

Really appreciate the in-depth response, and pinpointing the pertinent info. I will take a look at those pages and go from there.. will probably try brewing this in the next couple months and I'll make sure to report back. Glad to hear the recipe mimicked the REAL PsuedoSue. Been a favorite of mine long before they even bottled or canned. Thanks again!

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

Never played the the water chem braufessor. What should I be looking at adding? Dumbed down version. College chem was along time ago. Lol

 

[Braufessor]

Never played the the water chem braufessor. What should I be looking at adding? Dumbed down version. College chem was along time ago. Lol

The simplest way to get your water in the ballpark for a beer similar to this (any NE IPA basically) is to do the following:

100% RO water for both mash and sparge.
Per 5 gallons of mash water: 1 tsp of CaCl + 1/2 tsp Gypsum
Per 5 gallons of sparge water: 1 tsp of CaCl + 1/2 tsp Gypsum

This should bring you in around 140 Chloride and 80 Sulfate.

 

[Calaeb]

Can confirm the steps above will produce a awesome beer! Now if only I didn't lose 3.5 gallons right after brewing it lol.

 

[jspain3]

Just brewed the following recipe based on the info in this thread. It's been 2 years since I brewed and I'm giving BIAB a try so I'm sure I'll be a little rusty, but we'll see how it turns out. My consultant buddy just got assigned to Des Moines, IA, so I told him to bring some back. He's totally hooked on the real stuff and getting to taste it the other night was awesome.

6 Gallon Batch

6 lbs oz Pale Malt
6 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter
1lb 4.0 oz Barley, Flaked
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L
4.0 oz Honey Malt
0.75 oz Warrior - First Wort 60.0 min 34.7 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra - Steep/Whirlpool 41.9 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra - Boil 0.0 min 0 IBUs
2.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007)

3.00 oz Citra - Dry Hop 5.0 Days
3.00 oz Citra - Dry Hop 3.0 Days

OG - 1.061

It was down to 1.025 after 3 days and tasted a little thin and watery. Hopefully the extra hop additions and carbonation will take care of that as well as continued attenuation.

 

[cyclonebeer]

I live in Decorah and Sue has always been my "go to" TG beer. Just got back home after being down south for a while to escape the winter and had a Sue on tap at a local restaurant. My first thought was that the keg had kicked and I got a pint of yeast and dregs. From what I hear, Sue has a new look and is more like a NE IPA than the hoppy pale ale of old. Maybe this has something to do with brewing in the new brewery, or maybe TG just wanted to change things up a bit, but it is definately not the same beer that it used to be. I'm not saying that hazy Sue is good, bad, or otherwise. It's just different than old Sue. After that pint, I switched to Golden Nugget.

Braufessor, have you noticed this? Have any insight?

 

[Braufessor]

Braufessor, have you noticed this? Have any insight?

Unfortunately....... I have been slacking off on my recon. I honestly haven't even had any in a month or two..... last I had was in cans and it was pretty darn good. Been waiting for king sue in cans. I will have to make a point of getting some sampling done in the very near future

 

[paarman]

So a couple of days ago I picked up a 4pk of the canned batch from 3/14 and.. WOW. It's honestly the best PsuedoSue I have had in years, probably since they first started bottling it a few years ago. I also noticed the ABV has jumped from 5.8% to 6.8%-which I am seeing is because of the new system, which they still might be dialing in. I've bought a few 4pks since it returned to being brewed in IA over the past few months, but I noticed the beer had visually and notably dropped out after a month or two (this was the 1/18 batch IIRC), so I had held off on getting more. After reading through this thread a couple of weeks ago, it inspired me to get a feel for the taste again.

Either way, if you can get your hands on that canned batch with the 3/14 date, do so. It could have been a combination of the (finally) Springtime weather and outdoor enjoyment, but I was very very impressed. I will be going back for another 4pk today. At $10, it's the best "pale ale" you can buy for $2.50 a pint around here.

Side note: if either of you get a chance to try Brewing Projekt - Dare Mighty Things (any of the versions), they're putting out some great beers as of late. They're out of Eau Claire, WI. Quickly becoming some of the tastiest IPAs in Wisconsin, IMO. Didn't mean to hi-jack, just saw you're both not far from me, so give them a try if you can.

 

[paarman]

For visually pleasing purposes.

 

[jspain3]

My consultant buddy was assigned to Des Moines recently and I told him to check it out. This is the pic I get from him a week later.

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

Tell him to grab you some golden nugget while he's at it! One of my faves

 

[stella_tigre]

Interesting! Hadn't had a P-Sue in a while, but I don't recall it being that opaque and OJ looking the last time we had it at the old taproom. We'll be there tomorrow, we'll have to have one to see what's up

Going to Homebrewcon, want a TG shirt to wear while we're there. Also a Pulpit Rock. Already have a Lion Bridge T (Cedar Rapids IA) and Pearl Street Brewery shirt (La Crosse.) And my Spike Brewing T, that is my brew day tradition.

 

[Braufessor]

Just did some "recon"...... the current cans of Sue and Golden Nugget are both great. Drinking a Pompeii now..... really good too.
Been quite a while since I had a Golden Nugget honestly. Made me remember why it used to be my top TG pick.

 

[Hannabrew]

The Galaxy PS is pretty tasty

 

[paarman]

Agreed, Pompeii did a 180 for me. Used to be low for TG standards, but it's right up there with others now. At least the canned version, haven't had bottle or draft in awhile.

 

[YeastFeast]

I’ve yet to find a bad one from these guys. This one was pretty darn good the other day...

 

[paarman]

Just did some "recon"...... the current cans of Sue and Golden Nugget are both great. Drinking a Pompeii now..... really good too.
Been quite a while since I had a Golden Nugget honestly. Made me remember why it used to be my top TG pick.

Off your recommendation just picked up a 4pk of Golden Nugget.. Store must have messed up inputting the price, because it checked out at $3.99. I'll enjoy these so much more now haha.

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

At that price go back and empty the store out of em. Lol

 

[WiscoBrewer]

The Pompeii cans have been brewed at Wisconsin Brewing Company in Verona, Wi for awhile now, not sure if that's changed but I don't think so...talked with an ex Brewer there, said they didn't do anything special with the water, the grain bill is about what you'd expect, notably a lot of late hops of course.