Is this PPM?
Toppling Goliath pseudoSue - Can you clone it?
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Is this PPM?
Pompeii cans never came from WBC. Only kegs and bombers for a while. Now everything comes from Decorah.
yes
WiscoBrewer
Well-Known Member
I'd be glad to take a picture of the can I have saying brewed at WBC if need be, but regardless the remarks the brewer made still stand...FWIW, I forgot to add that he also confirmed TGB's house yeast as WLP007.
I'd be curious to see. Didn't they just start canning it this year, like a couple months ago? I was curious so looked at my cans yesterday. Said Decorah on them.
I could definitely see kegs having been brewed there.. It definitely tastes like as you described-they did nothing special to the water. I had it on tap just a month or two ago at a local restaurant and it was not great.
Good to know about the yeast. That's what I decided to go with when I brew this in a month or so.
Was not aware of any cans coming out of WBC. When did you first see them, as Paarman is right that they just started canning Pompeii around February. Maybe it was just a test run?
Also TG has switched to S-04 for it main yeast.
I toured the new TG facility this past weekend. Here are a couple of not very useful tidbits:
1. They have a massive RO system. in the RO room there were several pallets of water softener salts, and I didn't see other additives anywhere else in the brewery.
2. They chill all of the wort to 68 F before pitching the yeast.
It was fun to see active fermentation on a 100 barrel fermenter via a huge blowoff tube into a tub of water. Made a hot tub on high look tame.
1. They have a massive RO system. in the RO room there were several pallets of water softener salts, and I didn't see other additives anywhere else in the brewery.
2. They chill all of the wort to 68 F before pitching the yeast.
It was fun to see active fermentation on a 100 barrel fermenter via a huge blowoff tube into a tub of water. Made a hot tub on high look tame.
Those who have worked with WLP007, could you give me some insight on it?
I’m planning on brewing this beer Friday, made a 1L starter yesterday and when I went to add the yeast, it was sludgy, and thick.. like less viscous slurry. I had removed it from the fridge a few hours prior, so this was at room temp. The mfg date was 3/31/18, so according to the package it’s at about 50% viability still. Is that normal consistency for this yeast? I feel like every other liquid yeast I’ve worked with has been... well, liquid. I didn’t think too much of it until this morning.
After nearly 18 hours on a stir plate @ 65-66*, I haven’t seen any kruesen. Does this yeast prefer warmer temps?
Any thoughts? I did get a pic after pitching the yeast, this is what it looked like:
I’m planning on brewing this beer Friday, made a 1L starter yesterday and when I went to add the yeast, it was sludgy, and thick.. like less viscous slurry. I had removed it from the fridge a few hours prior, so this was at room temp. The mfg date was 3/31/18, so according to the package it’s at about 50% viability still. Is that normal consistency for this yeast? I feel like every other liquid yeast I’ve worked with has been... well, liquid. I didn’t think too much of it until this morning.
After nearly 18 hours on a stir plate @ 65-66*, I haven’t seen any kruesen. Does this yeast prefer warmer temps?
Any thoughts? I did get a pic after pitching the yeast, this is what it looked like:
Yeah - that yeast clumps up like crazy. I have used it in various beers and then cleaned out my fermenter (just 5 gallon buckets at the time) and had the yeast cake fall out of the bucket in a single, solid disc..... like a gelatinous man-hole cover.
I generally use "smell" as the best indicator of yeast..... When I swirl up a starter and it foams up, I like it to smell "bready". Visually, that yeast and 1968 can definitely look clumpy.
I was planning on building this starter up to another 1.5L today/tonight. Perhaps I’ll see if my LHBS has 007, otherwise get S-04 as a backup. I’ve read S-04 has a tart flavor unless you’re fermenting around 62* which I will not be doing. That’s my only hesitation on using that instead.
When you step it up again, only leave it on stir plate for an hour or so and then just let it ferment..... see if it puts up a nice krauesen and give it a swirl every few hours to see if it foams up and see how it smells when it puts off the CO2. I think it is just getting a slow start because the yeast is a bit old. Sometimes it takes an extra day to get rolling when yeast is older.
I have not encountered a tartness from S-04, and I use it for all my hoppy beers at my brewery. I pitch at 64 and ferment at 66. After my first DH I let it climb to 70 for D rest (usually day 3). Typically pH is around 4-4.1 at the time of the first DH. After fermentation is all said and done, my pH is usually 4.4-4.5. We run a sensory panel at my brewery, and have never had anyone describe any of our hoppy beers as tart, or having any perceivable acidty.
I used to use 007 at my brewery as my house yeast. I actually prefer its ester profile to S-04, but S-04 has superior mouthfeel, and frankly, the cost is what is the main driver to use this yeast (It is not easy to harvest/reuse yeast when making NE style hoppy beers).
I used to use 007 at my brewery as my house yeast. I actually prefer its ester profile to S-04, but S-04 has superior mouthfeel, and frankly, the cost is what is the main driver to use this yeast (It is not easy to harvest/reuse yeast when making NE style hoppy beers).
Thanks for the help, both. Skibb, I will get some S-04 as a fallback if my 007 doesn't take off. Obviously I do not have the control you do on my homebrew system, so perhaps others who reported the tartness may fall into the same category and the off flavors are a byproduct of a less stable/consistent process. But I appreciate your feedback. I'd like to try this beer with each strain of yeast if possible and compare. I chose WLP007 as that's what TG appears to used/have used, and I've become a bit of a PsuedoSue snob so I want to see if I can get it as close as I can... But I am open to trying S-04 too. Like you said, cost is a huge benefit, as is potentially not having to spend the time on a starter. If this beer turns out great, I will definitely be brewing it again.
Guess I am not sure how it works in a brewery setting, but do you create a starter with S04, or just pitch straight from the package?
Guess I am not sure how it works in a brewery setting, but do you create a starter with S04, or just pitch straight from the package?
I do not make a starter - just rehydrate 2 500g bricks and pitch into a batch (my batch size is ~350 gallons).
I can usually harvest on day 3 (before first DH) and get enough yeast for 1 to 2 more beers ...but I try not to take these out too many generations due to the selective pressuring I'm putting on them (selecting higher flocc/lower attenuating). I would assume this was the type of issue TG was running into after they decided to go full NE Styles... and this could be a big reason why they have reportedly switched over to S-04. Fermentis is literally 3 times cheaper than the cheapest wet yeast source.
Sorry for the tangent!
I can usually harvest on day 3 (before first DH) and get enough yeast for 1 to 2 more beers ...but I try not to take these out too many generations due to the selective pressuring I'm putting on them (selecting higher flocc/lower attenuating). I would assume this was the type of issue TG was running into after they decided to go full NE Styles... and this could be a big reason why they have reportedly switched over to S-04. Fermentis is literally 3 times cheaper than the cheapest wet yeast source.
Sorry for the tangent!
Thanks for the info! Side note, what is your brewery? Not sure how far out you distribute, but if I can, would like to give some of your beers a try if I can find someone I know within the vicinity!
I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Stopped home for lunch and took a look.. Definitely a slight bit of krausen now, I shook it up and it reacted-smelled bready. It also looks more active in the swirl now, so you're probably right-just a slow start.
On that note.. Any suggestions on how much longer to let it go before stepping it up? I've generally done 24 hours, which is now a couple hours away. Keep in mind I plan on brewing in 48 hours or so.
Brewed this up last Friday. Brew day went great, didn't run into many major snags along the way which is always great. The color looks great, and WLP007 works quick. Today is day 3 so I dry hopped this morning, I pulled a sample and it was down to 1.016 from 1.059 already.
My plan is to dry hop it again in a week when I transfer it to a keg. Today it tasted a little on the yeasty side.. I am hoping/assuming that will fade off with the dry hopping and carbonation ideally. So far so good.
My plan is to dry hop it again in a week when I transfer it to a keg. Today it tasted a little on the yeasty side.. I am hoping/assuming that will fade off with the dry hopping and carbonation ideally. So far so good.
I would dry hop today if I was you. My clone of Sue sits with a 4oz dry hop on day 3 on tail end of fermentation. Keg hopping, if I read your post correctly, can be very touchy.
Yeast taste is due to active yeast still being present. It will also show up in the keg somewhat, depending on how you siphon. As you said, it will dissipate with time and carbonation.
Let us know how it turns out.
I did dry hop yesterday morning; I was going to dry hop a second time once I transfer to the keg next week.
I had just done this with another NE IPA and I actually left the hopper in there for the duration of the kegs life, which was about 3 weeks or so and I didn’t get any off flavors. I doubt I will leave it in there with this one, I will probably keg hop it for 3 days or so and pull out the hopper via fishing line. May go by taste and pull it when I feel it’s time.
Was thinking of going for that DDH Sue hop flavor. Not sure if you’ve tried.. it’s one of the best beers TG has put out on a distribution scale, IMO.
Thanks for the reply... good to know about the yeast. I’ll definitely follow up
In related news......
LoneTreeFarms
Well-Known Member
I'm so jealous!! I heard they were going to start canning. How bad was a 4 pack?
I think it was $19.... So, less than $5 a pint. Not bad. Picked up 3 x 4 pack, plus 2x 4 pack of Golden Nugget. Plus had a glass of King Sue on tap and it was like $80 or so.
LoneTreeFarms
Well-Known Member
That's probably about right. I think I dropped 13-15 for a bomber awhile back.
@Braufessor
How is the can compared to bombers in terms of taste and aroma? I need to check if this has hit distro in Des Moines yet.
How is the can compared to bombers in terms of taste and aroma? I need to check if this has hit distro in Des Moines yet.
LoneTreeFarms
Well-Known Member
Haven't seen it anywhere around dodge/Humboldt. But so wanna find it.
I found the bombers to always be a bit hit and miss. I was a little skeptical on the pour.... it is a touch "murky" compared to the best King Sue I have had in the past. The best ones I have had looked very much like orange juice. This one was a bit dull in its visual brightness..... however, the flavor is really good. Nice mouthfeel, good carbonation, very good hop flavor, very drinkable. I would not say it is the best King Sue I have ever had..... but, it is well above average King Sue in my opinion.
So - honestly, my only real critique would have more to do with appearance than flavor..... I have had King Sue that was more visually appealing. The flavor and aroma is right in the ball park though.
Honestly, the beer I have been most impressed with since they opened the new brewery and started canning is Golden Nugget. Not sure if you guys have tried that since they started canning it, but the ones I have had so far have really been spectacular.
It is suppose to hit distro..... They have to have a lot of it with the new brewery, so it should find its way there I would think.
King was definitely hit or miss in the bombers but when it was good, it was great. I haven't have Golden Nugget in a long time mostly because I didn't care for it compared to their fruity IPAs. I've heard since they started canning it, it's actually pretty good. Some of the Imperial Golden Nugget bombers were fairly solid from what I remember.
LoneTreeFarms
Well-Known Member
Golden nugget is hands down my favorite in cans right now. But that could change with king sue coming out.
I'm sure King will hit distro this week or next.
I'm located near La Crosse, and I've heard it's supposed to land here next week. So I would imagine between now and then you guys should be seeing distro in Iowa. I've heard the cans from the brewery are pretty green right now.. So should be great in a couple weeks. I plan on grabbing a 4pk for sure.
Pompeii has still really impressed me in cans I think more than anything so far.
Pompeii has still really impressed me in cans I think more than anything so far.
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Okay...long ass thread. So what did the final recipe and water profile come out to be?
Check Post #461.... that is my take on it, as well as some of the details on page 10/11. (***That assumes 40 posts per page setting).
So the beer has turned out great. Of the few people I've had try it, all have loved it. One guy said its the best citra bursted-flavor he's had in a beer in some time. I did DDH hop it when I transferred into keg, which I'm happy with that flavor. I did a side by side a couple nights ago with canned Sue... It's very very close, and I probably wouldn't be able to pick the two apart. I'd like to give it another shot though, as I was a few beers in at that point.
I'm really impressed with how it turned out. Along the way, the samples had me a bit worried. But the beer finished very fast.. Like within 7 days I'm guessing. I ended up moving it to a keg on the 9th day, there was just barely any airlock activity.
I'm really impressed with how it turned out. Along the way, the samples had me a bit worried. But the beer finished very fast.. Like within 7 days I'm guessing. I ended up moving it to a keg on the 9th day, there was just barely any airlock activity.
The one on the metal surface is the homebrew next to a DDH sue bottle.. just to compare to actual DDH Sue next to a bottle in the other pic.
The other two are the colors in different lighting. Turned out great!
I agree with this completely.
LoneTreeFarms
Well-Known Member
We should be careful. TG might issue us non-compete clauses...
WiscoBrewer
Well-Known Member
The topplers acting like the goliath!
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