Too much malt, OG higher than instructions

[welshdemon]

Hi.

I tried to make a John Bull Traditional English Ale kit last week.

It didnt go quite right. When pouring in the malt it came out in a massive blob and I put in about 1.5kg by mistake.

Instructions say the OG should have been about 1.040 and then when femented it should be about 1.006. However the OG was 1.066 so now I dont know what to expect. If I left it to go to 1.006 it would be some 8% or more. But maybe it will not get that low because of the extra malt?

I read that too much malt might make it taste more cidery. I just took a sample and it did smell quite like a bad cider... like cider going off, almost vinegary. It now reads about 1.020 after a week or so.

I was going for the 6% by making 32 pints instead of 40. In hindsight after putting the extra malt in, maybe I should have added more water to thin it out and gone for 40 pints?

Do you think it will be horrible and maybe I should throw it out now and make another batch, before waiting another 5 weeks only to be disappointed?

Thanks.

 

[jflongo]

You could sterilize some water and dilute it some to drop the ABV. Another option would be to let it ride, bottle it, and then let those age for awhile, and maybe it will turn out to be a fantastic beer to your surprise. I would not throw it out.

 

[flars]

Don't throw it out. May turn out to be your best beer with at least three weeks in the primary and about four weeks of bottle conditioning.

High OG may just have been from the wort not being fully mixed in the fermentor, even though your volume was less the recipe and half kilo of extra malt got into the wort.

The extra malt won't give you a cidery flavor. You will have more flavor and body from the malt. A good thing. Sugar can create a cidery taste because sugars are 100% fermentable.

Your FG may be above 1.006 becasue the extra malt is not fully fermentable and the volume was reduced, of the recipe volume, by about 8%. FG may come out to be 1.010.

Patience and time will probably give you a great tasting beer.

 

[welshdemon]

OK thanks guys. I'll leave it and see how it turns out!

 

[dcp27]

It didnt go quite right. When pouring in the malt it came out in a massive blob and I put in about 1.5kg by mistake.

Instructions say the OG should have been about 1.040 and then when femented it should be about 1.006. However the OG was 1.066 so now I dont know what to expect. If I left it to go to 1.006 it would be some 8% or more. But maybe it will not get that low because of the extra malt?

were you not supposed to add the full amount? 1.5kg of extract is only about 1.04 in 32pints, so maybe you just didn't have it well mixed? there's no way you could be at 1.066 unless there was more malt involved. was there more to the kit?

also, it will not still get to 1.006 if the OG was indeed 1.066. it would get approximately the same attenuation rate, so around 1.01 instead

I read that too much malt might make it taste more cidery. I just took a sample and it did smell quite like a bad cider... like cider going off, almost vinegary. It now reads about 1.020 after a week or so.

more malt definitely won't make it more cidery. thats commonly said for table sugar, not malt. if you have vinegary note you potentially have the start of a aceto infection, tho 1 week is too early to notice that already so it may just be off-aromas from your fermentation. what yeast did you use and what temperature did you ferment at?

 

[welshdemon]

The instructions said to use 1kg sugar. I bought a 3KG of liquid malt and put about half in. Maybe closer to 1.75kg or 2kg then.
It's being fermented at about 18c, sometimes it has got up to 22/23c overnight with the heater on.
I used the yeast that came with the kit.

It smells and tastes a but like a snakebite (lager+cider) but it isn't a strong smell of cider any more. I tasted it and I've definitely drank worse.

The gravity is at 1.024 and has been for some days!

Is it too late to thin it out with some water?
Should I stir gently?
How do I know when it's done fermenting, (since I cant follow the instructions due to my error)? The lid doesn't seem to be rising any longer, do I leave it 24 hours and see if I can press it and get any bubbles?

Thanks

 

[morticaixavier]

The instructions said to use 1kg sugar. I bought a 3KG of liquid malt and put about half in. Maybe closer to 1.75kg or 2kg then.
It's being fermented at about 18c, sometimes it has got up to 22/23c overnight with the heater on.
I used the yeast that came with the kit.

It smells and tastes a but like a snakebite (lager+cider) but it isn't a strong smell of cider any more. I tasted it and I've definitely drank worse.

The gravity is at 1.024 and has been for some days!

Is it too late to thin it out with some water?
Should I stir gently?
How do I know when it's done fermenting, (since I cant follow the instructions due to my error)? The lid doesn't seem to be rising any longer, do I leave it 24 hours and see if I can press it and get any bubbles?

Thanks

give it some more time. some of the off flavours might work themselves out if they have more time with the yeast.

wait another week and taste it again. take another gravity reading and if it's the same as it was go ahead and bottle.

 

[dcp27]

The instructions said to use 1kg sugar. I bought a 3KG of liquid malt and put about half in. Maybe closer to 1.75kg or 2kg then.
It's being fermented at about 18c, sometimes it has got up to 22/23c overnight with the heater on.
I used the yeast that came with the kit.

It smells and tastes a but like a snakebite (lager+cider) but it isn't a strong smell of cider any more. I tasted it and I've definitely drank worse.

those early cider notes may have actually been acetaldehyde (green apple like). 22/23C is too high of ferment temps unless you're doing a belgian, in the future keep it under 20C (wort temp, not ambient)

im confused, all the kit called for was 1kg of sugar, but you used ~2kg of LME instead?

Is it too late to thin it out with some water? No, but it needs to be boiled and added carefully as to not cause oxidation. what are you hoping to gain in doing so?
Should I stir gently? You could stir it or gently rock the fermenter to rouse yeast back up to try to get more activity
How do I know when it's done fermenting, (since I cant follow the instructions due to my error)? The lid doesn't seem to be rising any longer, do I leave it 24 hours and see if I can press it and get any bubbles? Most kit instructions are junk, so its best not to follow them anyway. Typically a stable FG reading over a few days tells you its done, but 1.024 is too high so sounds like you have a stalled ferment

 

[flars]

Hi.

I tried to make a John Bull Traditional English Ale kit last week.

It didnt go quite right. When pouring in the malt it came out in a massive blob and I put in about 1.5kg by mistake.

Instructions say the OG should have been about 1.040 and then when femented it should be about 1.006. However the OG was 1.066 so now I dont know what to expect. If I left it to go to 1.006 it would be some 8% or more. But maybe it will not get that low because of the extra malt?

I read that too much malt might make it taste more cidery. I just took a sample and it did smell quite like a bad cider... like cider going off, almost vinegary. It now reads about 1.020 after a week or so.

I was going for the 6% by making 32 pints instead of 40. In hindsight after putting the extra malt in, maybe I should have added more water to thin it out and gone for 40 pints?

Do you think it will be horrible and maybe I should throw it out now and make another batch, before waiting another 5 weeks only to be disappointed?

Thanks.

Was the 22°C to 23°C the wort temperature or the ambient temperature?

Replacing the sugar with DME is good. Will give you a beer with more body and flavor. The amount of yeast which usually comes with a kit is insufficient when the sugar is replaced with DME. 11 grams of premium yeast is recommended.

Was this a no boil kit?

 

[Garagebrewski]

FG will prolly sit around 012. It will never get down to 06 with ur OG so high. You could add water but is leave it. Really depend a if u like strong beers or not


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Gameface]

Sounds like you used some LME instead of sugar. That's not bad, but sugar is 100% fermentable and LME is not. There's a reasonable chance that 1.024 is going to be your F.G.. If possible raise the temp of the wort and gently rock the fermenter to rouse the yeast.

Did you aerate well?

Oh and the vinegary/cidery smell is probably just fine at thing point. It should clear up. If it gets worse over time then start to worry.

 

[welshdemon]

23 is wort temperature. Well, using a cheap stick on fish tank thermometer so who knows!

It was a no boil kit.

I have left the heater off but at night it probably goes down to 16 or 17c, Im guessing this is OK? Better than heater on and going up to 23?

It turns out the lid is still rising a bit over a day or 2. So is it still fermenting? It's nearly 3 weeks now!

I'll give it a gentle rock, and leave it a few days.

Gameface you say raise the temp. What temp should I put it at?



I do like strong beer, 1698 is some 6.5% I think and is very nice I will try to copy that recipe one day.

Thanks guys.

 

[flars]

23 is wort temperature. Well, using a cheap stick on fish tank thermometer so who knows!

It was a no boil kit.

I have left the heater off but at night it probably goes down to 16 or 17c, Im guessing this is OK? Better than heater on and going up to 23?

It turns out the lid is still rising a bit over a day or 2. So is it still fermenting? It's nearly 3 weeks now!

I'll give it a gentle rock, and leave it a few days.

Gameface you say raise the temp. What temp should I put it at?



I do like strong beer, 1698 is some 6.5% I think and is very nice I will try to copy that recipe one day.

Thanks guys.

I would not try to raise the wort temperature. The fermentation has been warm enough to not be a consideration in the length of the fermentation.

Using the yeast that came with the kit was under pitching, if it was 5 or 7 grams, for the unintended OG. Pitching rate would be right on if it was an 11 gram pack of premium yeast and you rehydrated the yeast before pitching.

The fermentation may be going long for many reason. I would just let it go for another few days before taking another hydrometer sample.

 

[Erbun]

Just to add - It sounds like you were having the same problem I had when I started a year ago - High fermenting temps.

No matter how much I sterilized, I would get a nasty smell and taste. I was starting to get frustrated, even thought about giving up, until I realized that the temperature reported on my thermometer on my carboy was not probably not giving a good indication of the temp of the actual wort during fermentation. I got the recommendation from my LHBS to use a swamp cooler to keep the fermentation down lower. (My therm was reading about 74F, which is equal to about 23C)

I put the carboy in a plastic tub half filled with water, and using frozen bottles of water, attempt to keep the temps of the water surrounding the carboy in the high 60s range. I hope to get a little more exact in the future, but this has seemed to work great for my limited funds.

I wouldn't throw the brew out, as I could be off, and it may settle out over time, but I would try to keep the fermentation temps down lower on your next batch and see if that helps.

 

[welshdemon]

1 week on from it being 1.024 and it is 1.023.

Every day or so the lid has risen a bit and I can press it down and bubbles come out, so does this mean it is still fermenting?

Oh and would it be safe to drink it yet? I dont care about the taste, I have no money and am stuck in the house with a broken leg. I could use a drink! However I don't want to be violently sick!

Thanks

 

[morticaixavier]

1 week on from it being 1.024 and it is 1.023.

Every day or so the lid has risen a bit and I can press it down and bubbles come out, so does this mean it is still fermenting?

Oh and would it be safe to drink it yet? I dont care about the taste, I have no money and am stuck in the house with a broken leg. I could use a drink! However I don't want to be violently sick!

Thanks

you won't get violently sick. might get a little gassy. sure it's okay to drink it. nice? probably not but it's not gonna kill you.

 

[welshdemon]

Yes it was actually OK. Not the most appealing but better than nothing. Was kinda like strong flat ale. Which is what it is.
It would be better with a touch of fiz and chilled. Maybe a tad less malt of course.

I dont think everything was as bad as I thought. I read that 1kg of sugar is equal to 1.2kg of LME, so if I did put in 1.5kg LME then its not that out after all.

I do recall putting in a couple pints extra water actually so that would explain why it is about 5.5% instead of the 6% I was expecting, if I am correct:
OG 1.065 - FG 1.023

= roughly 5.5%

Time to bottle and sugar some and stick it in the fridge. Oh wait, 13c for conditioning....I guess the porch should do.

Maybe a couple in the fridge for pre conditioned goodness later this eve

 

[flars]

Yes it was actually OK. Not the most appealing but better than nothing. Was kinda like strong flat ale. Which is what it is.
It would be better with a touch of fiz and chilled. Maybe a tad less malt of course.

I dont think everything was as bad as I thought. I read that 1kg of sugar is equal to 1.2kg of LME, so if I did put in 1.5kg LME then its not that out after all.

I do recall putting in a couple pints extra water actually so that would explain why it is about 5.5% instead of the 6% I was expecting, if I am correct:
OG 1.065 - FG 1.023

= roughly 5.5%

Time to bottle and sugar some and stick it in the fridge. Oh wait, 13c for conditioning....I guess the porch should do.

Maybe a couple in the fridge for pre conditioned goodness later this eve

Bottle conditioning should be around 21° to 23°C.