Too Dark?

[Sudz]

I've been brewing for several years and have hit my numbers on the vast majority of my efforts. All the beer has been good and follows the comments for the recipe as described by others except for color. I've noticed virtually all of my brews have been darker than expected or darker than what the recipe defines. I assumed this was just a variable from the grains I use but I can't help but think there may be something else going on.

I don't believe it's from my boil since I do not find scorch marks or other indications suggesting a browning of the wort. And there's never been any hint of burnt wort in the taste.

Other than the grain, what else would cause this?

 

[BigEd]

Recipes? Examples? Pictures?

 

[smyrnaquince]

Check your mash pH. My lighter-colored beer was coming out darker than expected until I brought the pH down to where it should be.

 

[Sudz]

Recipes? Examples? Pictures?

I hear you however, this is a longterm observation which is in my notes for the majority of beers I've brewed. No pictures unfortunately.

The recipes are across the board and most notably darker. The only exceptions have been my Centennial Blondes, Wheats, and of course my really dark brews which color is basically dark by design. However, my Ambers, Irish Reds, Altbiers, California Commons, and other brews of color are consistently too dark when compared to color charts and experience with commercial beers.

This isn't a big deal since the beers taste as they should. Strictly a cosmetic thing and a point of curiosity. It simply bugs me not knowing why?

 

[Sudz]

Check your mash pH. My lighter-colored beer was coming out darker than expected until I brought the pH down to where it should be.

Good point. I haven't been checking the pH since I started using 5.2 which has been almost from the start. I'll do this with my next brew since I do have a good pH meter now.

Thanks for the suggestion...

 

[Yooper]

Good point. I haven't been checking the pH since I started using 5.2 which has been almost from the start. I'll do this with my next brew since I do have a good pH meter now.

Thanks for the suggestion...

I'd also consider chucking out the 5.2 stabilizer (for a ton of reasons- please see the Brew Science forum for specifics on why) and try taking a mash pH without that salt added.

Are you making your own recipes, or following someone else's? The reason I ask is because if you are formulating your own, it could just be that the software you're using is calculating the SRM of the malts incorrectly!

 

[Sudz]

Are you making your own recipes, or following someone else's?

Making recipes from this forum only. They've typically been very good and I have won several awards locally as a result.

I'll check into the 5.2 as you have suggested. I initially started using this at the recommendation of my LHBS. Primarily went with his recommendation because at the time I didn't have a decent way to measure pH.

 

[Yooper]

Making recipes from this forum only. They've typically been very good and I have won several awards locally as a result.

I'll check into the 5.2 as you have suggested. I initially started using this at the recommendation of my LHBS. Primarily went with his recommendation because at the time I didn't have a decent way to measure pH.

Hmmm. It's not the software or recipe forumulation, then.

My next question is about your boil- do you have a rolling boil, or is your boil literally jumping out of the pot? Excess maillard reactions will also darken a beer.

 

[Sudz]

My next question is about your boil- do you have a rolling boil, or is your boil literally jumping out of the pot? Excess maillard reactions will also darken a beer.

I have considered this. I do boil vigorously but not excessively I believe. I've never observed scorch marks on my pot and haven't smelled burnt wort. And I typically do not lose a excessive amount of wort in the boil. I plan on losing about 21% and usually hit close to that on a 60 minute boil.

 

[stpug]

Type of drinking glass will also impact color. The "stouter" the glass the darker the color (think Kerr/Ball canning jar). Try drinking from a pilsner glass and see if like the color better. Pils glasses are nice because they start too narrow at the bottom and end too wide at the top but they give a great gradational view of the color of your beer inbetween.

 

[Sudz]

Try drinking from a pilsner glass

I do drink from a Pilsner glass. Does show the color well I might add.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[stpug]

Well, it ain't the glass then

And your boil off is very similar to mine around 20% over 60 minutes.

How does your base malt for most recipes compare to your base malts for wheats and blondes? I'm reaching here and it's not likely this.

I like the idea of removing 5.2 from your next batch and see the results.

 

[ShaineT]

Sudz, I have this same issue. I always overshoot my color on almost everything. I'm starting to think my grain bills are just too complex, like 5 or 6 different grains. I'm going to try more simplified grain bills and check the outcomes.

 

[MidnightFarmer]

Ive noticed that different fermentation temperatures result in different color beers. I brewed the same batch three times now and each time the color is slightly different. The ferm temp has been from 65 to 90 depending on the week. 90 produced golden ale while 65 produced more amber. This was for a Kolsch.

 

[Sudz]

How does your base malt for most recipes compare to your base malts for wheats and blondes?

Nothing unusual here. Some grains are obviously added for the roasted, malty effect of beer with color. I thought maybe my LHBS grains were somehow coming in darker even though they were graded as required by the recipe. He runs a first class establishment and brews himself so that's hard to fathom.

 

[Sudz]

Ive noticed that different fermentation temperatures result in different color beers.

I didn't know this but in my case I have a modified freezer which permits me to control my fermentation precisely, which I do. So this ain't it for me anyway.

Thanks for the suggestion...

 

[ShaineT]

Nothing unusual here. Some grains are obviously added for the roasted, malty effect of beer with color. I thought maybe my LHBS grains were somehow coming in darker even though they were graded as required by the recipe. He runs a first class establishment and brews himself so that's hard to fathom.

Have you tried calculating a few points lower on the lovibond scale to compensate? I know I've thought of trying this but keep having faith in whatever software I use, still end up darker.

 

[Sudz]

Have you tried calculating a few points lower on the lovibond scale to compensate?

Frankly, this was to be my next move.

At least my process and this particular issue has been constant. Figure I can learn to compensate for it by reducing the darker grains in my various recipes. I've been hesitant to do this only because my flavor outcome has been spot on. I hate to mess with this just to adjust the color.

What's a guy to do?

Cheers...

 

[smyrnaquince]

What are you using as a reference for the colors? Colors on computer screens are known not to match printed colors. Something off of your printer may not match an official color scale.

 

[Sudz]

What are you using as a reference for the colors? Colors on computer screens are known not to match printed colors. Something off of your printer may not match an official color scale.

I'm using a couple of brewing books and a specific color chart for comparisons. I thoroughly agree with your comments on computers and printers... not suitable for reference material that's for certain.

Thanks for the heads up on this.

 

[rfsido]

What water do you use?
If there's dissolved ammonia (or amines) in your water you might have more reactants for Maillard reactions. If you're using well or municipal water, that might be the case.

 

[Sudz]

What water do you use?
If there's dissolved ammonia (or amines) in your water you might have more reactants for Maillard reactions. If you're using well or municipal water, that might be the case.

I use filtered Okla City water. I've obtained and tracked our municipal water chemistry from some time now. It's about as good as you will find for brewing. Very little of anything in it. I actually add some minerals to emulate various European waters.

This water is supplied and chlorinated with amines which I eliminate before brewing with a very small amount of potassium metabisulfite. I am aware that trying to filter this form of chlorine is basically futile.

I don't think I'm having issues from amines but frankly I wasn't aware of this as a possibility for increasing Maillard Reactions. Thanks for the input.

 

[winvarin]

I live in Edmond and get my water from Logan county. Opposed to yours, my water is so overboard with alkalinity that I have taken to building my water from scratch with distilled.

Since you're already doing some of your own mineral additions, trying your next batch with a blank slate of distilled or RO water plus brewing salts might be a good way to eliminate the water as a possible cause