To scoop out hot break or leave it?

[Kayos]

I never thought of getting the hot break material out of the BK until the most recent issue of BYO came out and said it was a good idea. Seems like a good idea to get more wort in to the fermenter by having less break material.

I tried it last brew day and it seemed like I kept a little bit more throughout the boil and I kept scooping it a little at a time. I'm hoping there wasn't any hop material I scooped I didn't scoop the actual hops, but hop oils don't coagulate, right?

Leave it or scoop it?

 

[helibrewer]

I've never tried scooping it, I whirlpool at the end of the boil after cooling, then let it settle for 30+ minutes before transferring to the fermenter.

 

[tuskenraider]

I just see it floating there and think it's too easy to skim it off the top to not do it.

 

[RM-MN]

The hot break I see is foam. So tell me just how much room that takes in the fermenter. Is it more or less than the foam I get from StarSan? Just how small is your fermenter? I dump everything from my boil pot into the fermenter and still have room for krausen. When the ferment is over its all compacted in the bottom under the yeast.

BYO is a monthly or bi-monthly publication. They have to have articles to fill the magazine whether they make good sense or not. I don't believe everything I read in a scheduled publication.

 

[maltoftheearth]

I could see an argument made regarding affects to taste/flavor (even though I don't know that to be the case, it might be the best tasting part of the beer for all I know) but not to amount of space saved. In any case, with a vigorous boil most of the break material goes away pretty quickly.

 

[progmac]

i always scoop but i have no idea if it is a good idea or a bad idea

 

[aiptasia]

I never scoop. I use fermcap in the boil for most of my boils, so it just settles out to the bottom of the primary. No ill effects.

 

[PhelanKA7]

I dump everything in the BK with no ill effect. I get very clear and tasty beer after a month or two of bottle conditioning. Don't fear the trub.

 

[zachattack]

I dump everything in the BK with no ill effect. I get very clear and tasty beer after a month or two of bottle conditioning. Don't fear the trub.

+1 it should settle out in the fermenter, and besides the yeast like to munch on it.

 

[TheLastDamnBatch]

It's like they say in the military - 'Builds Character'.

Please respect the character building abilities of hot break materials.

 

[progmac]

... and besides the yeast like to munch on [break material].

?? what does this mean and where does that idea come from?

 

[zachattack]

Some break material can act as a yeast nutrient. I forget where I read/heard it though. How to Brew maybe?

 

[Kayos]

Some break material can act as a yeast nutrient. I forget where I read/heard it though. How to Brew maybe?

Yes, that's true. However I would seriously doubt the amount you scoop out would be enough to have the yeast be bummed you did it. I would reason it's like saying you have to get some of the yeast cake in your bottling bucket so it carbonates. There's enough in there without trying.

For the posters that say to dump the whole BK in the fermentor, I disagree. I would say clearer beer in = clearer beer out. I'd rather have less trub and break material in the fermentor to get up in the yeast cells business. Especially if I am going to save the yeast and re-pith it later. I used to do that, but I can taste a difference in my beer since whilpooling and leaving most of the trub and hop material behind.

I am also not talking about foam for break material. I am talking about the flakes of coagulated proteins that are on top of the foam. So it's not a "room in the fermentor" issue at all.

I am going to skim the next few batches then not skim and see what the differences are. If you are interested, stay tuned!

 

[chickypad]

For the posters that say to dump the whole BK in the fermentor, I disagree. I would say clearer beer in = clearer beer out. I'd rather have less trub and break material in the fermentor to get up in the yeast cells business. Especially if I am going to save the yeast and re-pith it later. I used to do that, but I can taste a difference in my beer since whilpooling and leaving most of the trub and hop material behind.

I used to whirpool and try to leave everything behind but wasn't happy with the amount of lost wort. Since I started dumping everything in several yrs back I haven't noticed any ill effects - I'd be interested in the taste differences you've seen. It definitely doesn't affect the clarity of the finished product IME.

 

[Piratwolf]

I could see an argument made regarding affects to taste/flavor...but not to amount of space saved.

This. Makes no sense to me.

If you want more beer, adjust your recipe. FWIW, I brew 6gal batches to make sure that after trub loss, hop absorption, and cooling shrinkage I end up with 5 gallons actually going to the keg.

 

[chickypad]

Agreed, I actually think it's the opposite - meaning I lose more wort trying to whirpool in the kettle as opposed to dumping it all in and letting it compact down. Now if your fermenter is too small I guess that could be an issue.

 

[kh54s10]

For me: 1) This is the first time I have read that anyone removes the hot break. 2) I couldn't be bothered to do it.

 

[tuskenraider]

Going a bit OT, but I just run my beer through a strainer sitting on top of the bucket and you keep 90% of the trub out of the fermenter and leave nothing behind in the kettle.

 

[HeavyKettleBrewing]

I hope you are all in compliance with EPA regulations when disposing of hot break and trub. Remember to always wear safety glasses.

 

[tehnick]

I don't have a ton of batches under my belt but have noticed some of the trub really helps the yeast take off and go crazy. I've got a batch of pumpkin ale bubbling away right now and it has pretty much fully fermented in a few days with some of the pumpkin bits and other crud that has settled. It might just be the strain of yeast too. I've had superb luck with Wyeast 1056.

The couple times I've strayed away from that strain I've had stuck fermentation towards the end where it finishes up to .008-.010 less than predicted FG. The beer was still great, but that extra abv gone missing would've been nice. I tend to brew higher gravity beer so I might not have pitched enough yeast on those batches. I usually do 6-6.5 gallons to account for loss to trub and dead yeast so I end up with 5-5.5 gallons at bottling.

 

[malhal]

Hot break contains tannins that taste bad so you want to either skim it off the boil, leave it behind when transferring to the fermenter, or as a last resort skim it off the krausen as soon as it appears.

The foam that appears at same time as the hot break contains concentrated DMS so if you skim that too you might not need to boil as long where it is carried away by the steam.

 

[DonT]

I'll scoop the foop if it's a light clear beer, otherwise I don't bother.

 

[MaxStout]

I've tried both. Skimming vs. not skimming. I can't tell the difference in the finished beers. So I don't skim. Once I get the wort to a nice boil and boil overs aren't a concern (thanks, Fermcap!), I spend that time between hop additions having lunch.

 

[sibelman]

Lost in the mists of time, I got advised early on to skim. So I skim. In case it's a good thing. Never heard a claim that it's detrimental.

 

[Skeeter686]

I believe I've heard that skimming may be detrimental to foam. I'm guessing that you're removing some of the proteins that contribute to head retention.

 

[lumpher]

Nope. Too much trouble.

 

[sibelman]

skimming may be detrimental to foam

I've wondered that, but have (mis?) understood that head formation/retention in the glass is unrelated to the foam we might skim just before boiling begins.

 

[doug293cz]

Hot break contains tannins that taste bad so you want to either skim it off the boil, leave it behind when transferring to the fermenter, or as a last resort skim it off the krausen as soon as it appears.

The foam that appears at same time as the hot break contains concentrated DMS so if you skim that too you might not need to boil as long where it is carried away by the steam.

Do you have links to any peer reviewed research papers, or other authoritative references, that support tannins concentrating in the hot break? I have not heard/read about this previously, and would like to learn more.

As far as DMS goes, the grain has little to no DMS. What the grain does have is SMM, which is converted to DMS during the boil. Conversion of SMM to DMS does not occur at significant rates below about 170°F (77°C), so DMS is not formed during the mash. At boiling temps the half life of SMM is about 30 - 40 minutes, so most of the DMS isn't formed until after the hot break process has completed. DMS also has a boiling temp of about 100°F (38°C), so evaporates very quickly once formed during the boil process. With that low a boiling point, DMS is not going to concentrate in anything floating on top of boiling wort.

Brew on

 

[MaxStout]

I believe I've heard that skimming may be detrimental to foam. I'm guessing that you're removing some of the proteins that contribute to head retention.

I'm curious to know where that idea came from, if you can locate the source.

Using an anti-foaming agent in the boil (e.g., Fermcap-S), removes much of those proteins by precipitating them, where they will largely remain in the BK after whirlpooling. Wouldn't that have a similar adverse effect on head retention as skimming?

 

[Spartan1979]

I skim it. It probably doesn't make much difference but I'm standing there anyway, so I might as well.