Whirlpool Alternative?

[Mutt98]

My whirlpool attempts have always given me mixed results so I was thinking of some alternatives. I tend to leave behind quite a bit of wort in the boil kettle to keep from pulling too much break material into the FV. I recently picked up a conical fermenter and I was wondering if I could transfer everything into the FV, let it settle out, then dump the break material out of the bottom valve before adding the yeast. I'm about half delirious after a long day, so this might not make much sense, but I've missed my volumes multiple times and I feel like the culprit is wort left in the boil kettle. Obviously, adjusting volumes would work, but I would still end up pulling extra material into the fermenter, so just throwing out an idea.

 

[kevin58]

You may be whirlpooling inefficiently/ineffectively or you may have too much fear of trub going into your fermenter... or both. What is your whirlpool process? And don't worry too much about getting trub material in your fermenter. Many people just dump everything in with no problems.

 

[Mutt98]

Yeah, I’ve been a “dump it all in” guy for a long time, so just trying something new. My latest attempt I started the pump output along the side of the kettle to create the whirlpool for a couple minutes. Then let it settle for 10 minutes before starting the transfer to the fermenter. That break material just seems to be everywhere by the time I get down to the last gallon plus in the bottom of the kettle. Again, not super worried about it messing up the beer. Just thinking through some things.

 

[wsmith1625]

I miss the days when a question like this would have members furiously typing messages and swearing their way is the only way to make good beer. Ahh, the good old days!

 

[worlddivides]

You may be whirlpooling inefficiently/ineffectively or you may have too much fear of trub going into your fermenter... or both. What is your whirlpool process? And don't worry too much about getting trub material in your fermenter. Many people just dump everything in with no problems.

I've always dumped 100% of the wort into my fermenter, but I used to do whatever I possibly could to prevent any hops getting in there. It's kind of ironic, but for the first decade of brewing, I did not want ANY hops staying in there, so I always used hop mesh bags (and occasionally other methods). Nowadays I dry hop commando more than in any other method, which would have been unthinkable before. And if the total number of hops going into the kettle isn't that large, I just throw the hops in there. If I'm making a super hoppy beer with a lot of hops in the kettle, I still might dry hop commando, but I either use hop mesh bags or a hop tube that I clamp to the side of the kettle so it's like a hop spider.

If you do use mesh hop bags for the whirlpooling, I'd recommend tying them off near the end so the hops are able to move as freely about inside as possible.

If you do throw them into the kettle, there's really no disadvantage to just dumping all the wort into the fermenter, trub and all. I mean, other than more trub at the bottom of the fermenter than if you hadn't done that. But is that really a disadvantage?

 

[tracer bullet]

Then let it settle for 10 minutes before starting the transfer to the fermenter.

Maybe give it more time. Makes a big difference for me. Go get lunch or dinner, or start cleaning some brewing stuff and putting it away, whatever. Sanitize the fermenter if you haven't already.

 

[mashdar]

You might find this thread of interest:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...le-trub-in-the-fermenter.733837/post-10425098

At least in the case of Bobby's experiment, trub in the fermenter improved the beer.

 

[Bobby_M]

A few things to consider. If you're missing your volumes short, modify your process to start your boil with that exact amount MORE. That's a simple way to look at it and solve the problem.

With a conical though, there's very little reason to try to leave anything in the kettle. While it's settling in the fermenter, you can be busy cleaning the kettle to end your brew day a little earlier. Leave it to settle in there for as long as it takes to clean everything else up, then dump the chunkiest of stuff out of the FV dump. Pitch yeast, oxygenate and Yahtzee.

 

[mashdar]

Leave it to settle in there for as long as it takes to clean everything else up, then dump the chunkiest of stuff out of the FV dump. Pitch yeast, oxygenate and Yahtzee.

Just be sure not to pitch before dumping! Silly in the abstract, painful in practice!

 

[odie]

no matter what...it makes beer in the end.

What is your objective? speed, efficiency, max wort extraction, yeast harvesting, etc?

There are many ways to slay this dragon...

1. dump it all in the FV, it will settle tight after a couple few weeks and rack the finished beer. Fastest but trubby yeast cake

2. whirlpool or let the kettle settle first, but you will be leaving significant wort behind with the trub. Cleaner yeast cake.

3. dump it all in a conical and dump the bottom valve after a little while, but there will be lots of wort dumped too since trub takes a good while to pack tightly. Cleaner yeast cake.

4. Let kettle settle, run the kettle thru a micron bucket strainer, dump bottom trub into strainer and squeeze ALL the wort out. More time but cleanest yeast cake.

I'm sure there are countless variations...what is your objective?

 

[odie]

trub takes a really long time to settle into a tight cake. that trub layer is actually very loose and hold a lot of wort.

Even when I dumped all into a conical and did a bottom dump a day later, the trub that came out was loose and full of good wort.

If you want the best separation of wort and trub, you will need to percolate/drip it thru a bucket strainer, about 200 micron. It will be slow, but highly effective. TIP: let the kettle settle an hour, run the clear top stuff thru the strainer first, then dump the last gallon of muck and let it sit. It will pass and leave 99% of the trub behind. Think like a coffee filter.

 

[Mutt98]

A few things to consider. If you're missing your volumes short, modify your process to start your boil with that exact amount MORE. That's a simple way to look at it and solve the problem.

With a conical though, there's very little reason to try to leave anything in the kettle. While it's settling in the fermenter, you can be busy cleaning the kettle to end your brew day a little earlier. Leave it to settle in there for as long as it takes to clean everything else up, then dump the chunkiest of stuff out of the FV dump. Pitch yeast, oxygenate and Yahtzee.

This is what I had in mind. Seems way simpler than trying to whirlpool and fuss with exactly how much I was going to leave behind in the fermenter.

 

[wsmith1625]

If you want the best separation of wort and trub, you will need to percolate/drip it thru a bucket strainer, about 200 micron. It will be slow, but highly effective.

I tried something similar with terrible results. I used a spare Wilser brew bag, sanitized it, and lined my Fermonster fermenter with it. My idea was to transfer into the brew bad and then lift it out to remove the hops and break material. Unfortunately, the bag immediately clogged and was so full of wort that I couldn't fit it out the narrow neck of the fermenter. I fought with it a while and eventually gave up and let the bag spill entirely into the fermenter. I would definitely recommend a hop bag, hop spider if you attemp to do this.

 

[Willy]

Still go commando for my hops. Whirlflock tab and a 15 min. whirlpool followed by (at least 10 min) rest as I chill. I have a bottom plate that catches most of the hops at the bottom in a pile. What I do now.

Before I whirlpooled - I still did commando but late in the boil, I'd run a recirc pump line into a hop basket for about 10 minutes and filtered out a bunch of hops. Worked okay.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The hops will floculate and stay out of the way as your beer ferments.

 

[odie]

I tried something similar with terrible results. I used a spare Wilser brew bag, sanitized it, and lined my Fermonster fermenter with it. My idea was to transfer into the brew bad and then lift it out to remove the hops and break material. Unfortunately, the bag immediately clogged and was so full of wort that I couldn't fit it out the narrow neck of the fermenter. I fought with it a while and eventually gave up and let the bag spill entirely into the fermenter. I would definitely recommend a hop bag, hop spider if you attemp to do this.

I don't know the micron rating on those bags...but the thing is, when the wort drains out, you have some very tight trub...it's not gonna want to squeeze thru that narrow neck.

I place a bucket strainer on my bucket fermenter. the settled wort will pass rather quickly from the sipgot. what's left below the spigot you just take the kettle and pour it out over the bucket strainer and let the last gallon percolate thru. then simply lift the strainer and discard the tight packed trub. there will be nothing but a few ounces of wort left.

The picture is what I discard. all trub, not wort. It takes about an hour to fully percolate and compact the bottom gallon of kettle dregs.

 

[Mutt98]

no matter what...it makes beer in the end.

What is your objective? speed, efficiency, max wort extraction, yeast harvesting, etc?

There are many ways to slay this dragon...

1. dump it all in the FV, it will settle tight after a couple few weeks and rack the finished beer. Fastest but trubby yeast cake

2. whirlpool or let the kettle settle first, but you will be leaving significant wort behind with the trub. Cleaner yeast cake.

3. dump it all in a conical and dump the bottom valve after a little while, but there will be lots of wort dumped too since trub takes a good while to pack tightly. Cleaner yeast cake.

4. Let kettle settle, run the kettle thru a micron bucket strainer, dump bottom trub into strainer and squeeze ALL the wort out. More time but cleanest yeast cake.

I'm sure there are countless variations...what is your objective?

Thanks for the run down of options. Overall objective is to make the best beer without being wasteful. I spent years brewing in an aluminum kettle without a valve. Full dump into the bucket/carboy. Always made good beer. I've added gadgets over the years, so just always chasing gains and trying new things. I had a lot of new things going on in this last brew, so I hadn't given whirlpooling enough thought/research and was just thinking through possibilities at the end of the brewday.

 

[jerrylotto]

After my boil I always strain my wort through a sanitized 400 mesh bag. Never have any trub to deal with. The bag is in a bucket with a spigot which I use to cool the wort. Then I drain it into the fermenter through the spigot.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

30-second whirlpool in the boil keggle with my spoon, 20-minute wait, then run it through the chiller. Super clear and a nice hop/trub cone left behind. Make sure you account for the extra ibu's for the 20-minutes. Beersmith has that freature.

 

[hottpeper13]

I whirlpool for 10 min after flame out, then chill to 68*. After sitting for 1-4 hrs I pump it into the FV. The trub that was in the lines, pump and CFC gose into the FV but I shut the valve when the wort starts to get cloudy. My batches are set to leave 1 or so gallons of junk behind, which I pour into a sanitized pitcher. After 1 day in the 33* lagerator it has settled enough that I get between 800 and 100 ml of clear wort that I freeze for a starter.

 

[Mutt98]

I whirlpool for 10 min after flame out, then chill to 68*. After sitting for 1-4 hrs I pump it into the FV. The trub that was in the lines, pump and CFC gose into the FV but I shut the valve when the wort starts to get cloudy. My batches are set to leave 1 or so gallons of junk behind, which I pour into a sanitized pitcher. After 1 day in the 33* lagerator it has settled enough that I get between 800 and 100 ml of clear wort that I freeze for a starter.

1-4 hrs!! Maybe that’s my problem. Not enough patience. I’m always ready to get that stuff in the fermenter. I guess I’ve always thought it needed to be moved and yeast pitched fairly quickly to avoid bugs.

 

[RyPA]

I recently started getting as much as I can out of the Foundry to fermenter with the intention of maximizing the volume of beer at the end.

I used to ferment in 5-6 gallon kegs, which was my limiter, but now that I have an All Rounder, I try to get in as much as I can. My most recent batch I planned to get 5 gallons into the keg. I started with 7 gallons strike, 1.4g sparge, totaling 8.4g. I ended up with 6g in the fermenter, hoping to transfer at least 5g to the keg.

 

[Willy]

My target is 4.5g - the headspace helps it carb faster so I can enjoy it sooner.