The Saison Thread

[sacrelicio]

Peppercorns. Very different from chilis.

Logsdon doesn't strike me as a brewery that would throw peppers into ****. Peppercorns make sense though.

 

[coldafpipes]

Around $14usd for a 750 at the site I used (plus shipping to UK).

$20US for 750 in VT (30 for Bon-Chien 750 for reference)

 

[bramsdell]

$20US for 750 in VT (30 for Bon-Chien 750 for reference)

In NC, 750s are gone, but still a fair number of 375s in some places. About $20/$9, respectively.

 

[GregorySingh]

Get it! Last bottle at my pop's local beer spot...

 

[Farnsworth]

Does anyone know if √225 is a regular thing now? I was under the impression that it was a 1 off anniversary beer, but I keep seeing new shipments of it. Or are these just new shipments of the same batch?

 

[drgarage1]

Does anyone know if √225 is a regular thing now? I was under the impression that it was a 1 off anniversary beer, but I keep seeing new shipments of it. Or are these just new shipments of the same batch?

I'm fairly certain there have been multiple batches. Some slight variance, but they're all good.

...

As is Mosaic Saison from Anchorage. Damn fine beer. Would love to get it in four packs.

 

[sacrelicio]

Get it! Last bottle at my pop's local beer spot...

STOP WITH THE PHOTOS.

Must clear local shelf

 

[Snarf1]

Does anyone know if √225 is a regular thing now? I was under the impression that it was a 1 off anniversary beer, but I keep seeing new shipments of it. Or are these just new shipments of the same batch?

Started as one off for 15th anniversary and became a full time beer. There was a muscat version for the sour beer festival in Italy a few weeks ago, hopefully that's something we see on draft if not in bottles.

 

[Vogt52]

Call me mainstream but I really enjoy tank 7

 

[jivex5k1]

I had an Elizabe5thfergea or however you spell it the other night, it was good.
I actually went looking for saisons, I'm gonna give some Belgian imports some tries next time I go. Who knows, maybe one of them will be as tart and funky as that black saison from SARA was.

 

[Snarf1]

The new Thiriez stuff is on my list to try fo sho.

 

[Thorpe]

I had an Elizabe5thfergea or however you spell it the other night, it was good.
I actually went looking for saisons, I'm gonna give some Belgian imports some tries next time I go. Who knows, maybe one of them will be as tart and funky as that black saison from SARA was.

If you're looking for something funky and/or sour, would go with Fantome (very inconsistent, but can be magical when it hits) or BFM 225, which has been discussed above. Most of the best Belgian examples (Dupont, Blaugies, Jandrain, etc.) are clean.

 

[drgarage1]

If you're looking for something funky and/or sour, would go with Fantome (very inconsistent, but can be magical when it hits) or BFM 225, which has been discussed above. Most of the best Belgian examples (Dupont, Blaugies, Jandrain, etc.) are clean.

Jandrain can be really funky. Not sure if it's batch variation or just something that comes out with age.

 

[arren]

Do you guys think we should judge funky "traditional" saisons on the same level as tart sour saisons, or should we strictly place them in separate categories?

Just feels weird to say something like "oh Avec Les Bon Voeux is good but it doesn't approach Fantome Classic".

 

[drgarage1]

Do you guys think we should judge funky "traditional" saisons on the same level as tart sour saisons, or should we strictly place them in separate categories?

Just feels weird to say something like "oh Avec Les Bon Voeux is good but it doesn't approach Fantome Classic".

If it has Brett (which Avec does), we probably should. But we should probably rule out, say, Cask 200 or Oak Theory as sours rather than saison so...

 

[coldafpipes]

Jandrain can be really funky. Not sure if it's batch variation or just something that comes out with age.

I thought drinking a freshly mucked out barn was intentional. We had some bottle variation last summer (6 bottles) but it was all so long ago, need more...for science.

Anyone have brasserie au baron saison offerings? I like their Biere de garde.

 

[Farnsworth]

I thought drinking a freshly mucked out barn was intentional. We had some bottle variation last summer (6 bottles) but it was all so long ago, need more...for science.

Anyone have brasserie au baron saison offerings? I like their Biere de garde.

Cuvee Des Jonquilles is wonderful!
But I don't think I have seen any of their other stuff on the shelves.

 

[jmgrub]

If it has Brett (which Avec does), we probably should. But we should probably rule out, say, Cask 200 or Oak Theory as sours rather than saison so...

I drank OEC Tempus Blend 3 the other night (a "blended sour saison"). It was very good. It was not a saison.

 

[Thorpe]

Jandrain can be really funky. Not sure if it's batch variation or just something that comes out with age.

Interesting. I've never had anything funky from Jandrain, though I haven't had anything particularly old from them either.

Do you guys think we should judge funky "traditional" saisons on the same level as tart sour saisons, or should we strictly place them in separate categories?

Just feels weird to say something like "oh Avec Les Bon Voeux is good but it doesn't approach Fantome Classic".

I don't think they necessarily need to be judged against one another. Instead, to me, it's more asking "how much do I enjoy this beer?" From there, there are times where I want something that's clean and crisp, and others where I want something that's more fruity and funky. After the the extremely-painful process of going through hundreds of saisons, I can usually think of something that fits my mood.

If it has Brett (which Avec does), we probably should. But we should probably rule out, say, Cask 200 or Oak Theory as sours rather than saison so...

Any source on Avec having Brett? I've never seen anything along those lines, and have never tasted anything that would indicate Brett.

 

[caaam]

In NC, 750s are gone, but still a fair number of 375s in some places. About $20/$9, respectively.

Fresh shipment came about a month ago; so 750s are back around. If you're in the triangle, I can list a few places. If not, statewide distributors have it so bug your local bottle shop (or tell them you want to order a case)

 

[drgarage1]

Interesting. I've never had anything funky from Jandrain, though I haven't had anything particularly old from them either.



I don't think they necessarily need to be judged against one another. Instead, to me, it's more asking "how much do I enjoy this beer?" From there, there are times where I want something that's clean and crisp, and others where I want something that's more fruity and funky. After the the extremely-painful process of going through hundreds of saisons, I can usually think of something that fits my mood.



Any source on Avec having Brett? I've never seen anything along those lines, and have never tasted anything that would indicate Brett.

No source on Avec having brett, but it has a very brett-like phenolic character that gets much, much more pronounced with age. Possible it's all sacchromyces, but I would be surprised.

 

[LukeAleTime]

No source on Avec having brett, but it has a very brett-like phenolic character that gets much, much more pronounced with age. Possible it's all sacchromyces, but I would be surprised.

Doesn't the Dupont strain have some brett kicking about? I remember something in Farmhouse Ales about it.

 

[drgarage1]

Doesn't the Dupont strain have some brett kicking about? I remember something in Farmhouse Ales about it.

If anyone knows, it would be Yvan.

 

[SeaWatchman]

The new Thiriez stuff is on my list to try fo sho.

I was just at the brewery yesterday and he was brewing his double IPA and labeling an APA that he contract brewed for a place in Paris. Both were pretty delicious, but nothing compares to his Etoile du Nord fresh. Petite Princesse was great too.

 

[Odesseiron]

BFM 225 is my everyday saison, partly because it's one of very few reasonably priced (~$16 for a 750ml) funky saisons in the Norwegian Wine Monopoly. Tank 7 is great too, at a couple bucks more. For comparison Logsdon Brettas are about twice that.

Sadly, 225 varies a ton, even within the same batch, whereas Tank 7 is much better when the hops are fresh, so I'm still holding out for something a bit more predictable.

Luckily Nøgne Ø has started experiencing more with brett and bacteria after Stephen Andrews from Brooklyn Brewing came over to head their barreling project, and I've had some pretty good (but very band-aidy) bottles of their Saison Réserve. And some pretty bad. Think they will start shipping out pretty great and sessionable funky saisons after they dial it all in.

 

[bramsdell]

Fresh shipment came about a month ago; so 750s are back around. If you're in the triangle, I can list a few places. If not, statewide distributors have it so bug your local bottle shop (or tell them you want to order a case)

Thanks for the heads-up. I'm out of state for the summer, but I'll be back in Winston-Salem in August. Will be sure to pick some up.

 

[Thorpe]

Off Color / Jester King Radiolaria. I was extremely excited to try this one given that Apex Predator is by far my favorite clean American saison, and I really like the Jester King lower-ABV saisons.

Notes: Light tartness. Lemon and pineapple with a hint of sulfur. Backing wheat, a bit creamy toward the end of the bottle. Touch of some funky, earthy floral notes in the nose as it warms up.

I'm pretty excited to see how this one develops over the next 6-12 months.

 

[ncaudle]

Most of the best Belgian examples (Dupont, Blaugies, Jandrain, etc.) are clean.

I thought I had read that Dupont is actually a mix of multiple sacc & brett strains?

 

[Thorpe]

I thought I had read that Dupont is actually a mix of multiple sacc & brett strains?

The info that I have heard most often is that it is a blend of yeast strains, though have only ever heard Saccharomyces as being part of that. It would be really interesting to hear if anyone has ever taken a look at what's in the bottle and found at least a little bit of Brett. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that's the case.

However, even if there's a bit of Brett in Dupont, Blaugies, or Jandrain, I would still contrast them with beers from SARA, Crooked Stave, etc that are outwardly funky and/or sour. I was thinking "clean" in terms of taste profile rather than fermenters. But definitely a good point, and I would be curious to know if anyone has more info. I will have to take a look around as well.

 

[Thorpe]

The info that I have heard most often is that it is a blend of yeast strains, though have only ever heard Saccharomyces as being part of that. It would be really interesting to hear if anyone has ever taken a look at what's in the bottle and found at least a little bit of Brett. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that's the case.

However, even if there's a bit of Brett in Dupont, Blaugies, or Jandrain, I would still contrast them with beers from SARA, Crooked Stave, etc that are outwardly funky and/or sour. I was thinking "clean" in terms of taste profile rather than fermenters. But definitely a good point, and I would be curious to know if anyone has more info. I will have to take a look around as well.

On Dupont, I talked with others outside of this thread, and I believe several sources (including Yvan's section in Farmhouse Ales) indicate that Dupont's primary fermentation incorporates a "wild" strain, though it's unclear whether this is Brettanomyces, a "wild" strain of Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, or a non-Cerevisiae Saccharomyces species.