The Extract "twang" - what is it?

[unionrdr]

The twang comes from a lot of heat & time,that's it. Especially boiling all of it. The difference I can't seem to get across is when you mash,sparge,etc the grains,you're making wort. When you use extract for the same amount of time,it's like you're trying to make wort twice. That's where the twang comes from.

 

[cosmo]

That may be a contributing factor, but get twang when I boil only one pound of extract and add the remainder at flameout. I have been doing that for about the last 30 batches. I think there are other factors also. I don't know what else could be different with my process that would cause it. I'm looking into temperature profiles (raising / lowering temp near the end of fermentation, crash cooling, etc.). I got the idea from this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/b...on-temps-profiles-cybi-other-thoughts-221817/

 

[unionrdr]

Some also associate the twang with that cidery off flavor. I think it's more than that.

 

[CrookedTail]

I brewed several hefe-weizens this past summer (requests from friends for BBQs and parties). When I used the late addition method, the resulting brews were light-colored and excellent-tasting. Craft brew quality. In early September I brewed another batch for my wife (I'm sick of them, but she loves them). The day was kind of a blur, and I sort of rushed through it. Without realizing it until after the fact, I had added all of the extract at the beginning of the boil. The resulting beer was a lot darker (it almost resembled a dunkelweizen), and it had an aftertaste that I'm convinced is what people blame on the extract. The so-called "twang."

Extract does not need to go through a full 60 minute boil. Add a little for your hops at the beginning, but then add most of it towards the end. If you do a partial mash, don't add any extract until late in the boil.

 

[GNBrews]

I think CrookedTail nailed it. The caveat with late extract additions is that your hop utilization is going to be much higher with the lower gravity (and hence, less break material for hop acids to be taken from the boil). Either add the hops later in the boil, or cut-back on the recipe amount to account for the increase in IBU.

 

[manticle]

Prehopped kit tins suffer from 'twang' too, so I'm not convinced about the double boil.

Freshness of extract and yeast health seem to be the biggest contributors in extracts I taste that I can pick as extract. Haven't brewed one myself for several years but I have had some that I couldn't pick (usually involved some spec grain additions but were just fermented and conditioned very well).

 

[Homebrewtruth]

I think the twang comes from not aerating the wort properly before pitching yeast and/or unhealthy yeast prior to pitching (if the taste I experienced during the first 7 or 8 batches I produced was the taste you're associating with extract twang). And of course, now you're screaming at your computer screen: 'But why don't people who brew AG experience it?'. And my answer to that is it simply isn't true. I've heard complaints by people on this website whom have complained about switching to AG and getting the same 'TWANG'. People who brew AG experience it less, simply because they tend to be more experienced and pay more attention to aeration of wort, and most importantly have a decent aeration strategy in place. People don't associate lack of aeration of wort with off flavours, but not paying attention to this can produce a plethora of off flavours that people associate with other problems in their process, e.g. bad sanitation or oxidation.

If you don't want to invest in an air stone and pump, or go to the extravagance of an O2 canister, simply use a whisk for about 3 minutes to whip your beer in a frenzy before pitching your yeast. When pitched, leave your yeast to sit on the foam that you've created (this is a perfect environment for the initial stage of fermentation to take place) and make sure that you leave your brew for at least a week after fermentation has 'stopped' (the specific gravity readings are steady) before bottling your beer.

 

[unionrdr]

I would agree myself it's more than aeration,but the late extract additions def help. I also like late hop additions. But I chill the wort in about 20 minutes,Then pour that & the top off water through a fine mesh strainer into the FV,but not too fast. It aerates it to where I get 3-5 inches of thick foam on it. Then stir roughly for 5 minutes straight. My yeast is dry,so I re-hydrate it. No off flavors there.
But you def have to keep ferment temps in check,or many off flavors can result. So you may be right there insomuch as folks calling those extract twang...

 

[duckmanco]

I brewed several hefe-weizens this past summer (requests from friends for BBQs and parties). When I used the late addition method, the resulting brews were light-colored and excellent-tasting. Craft brew quality. In early September I brewed another batch for my wife (I'm sick of them, but she loves them). The day was kind of a blur, and I sort of rushed through it. Without realizing it until after the fact, I had added all of the extract at the beginning of the boil. The resulting beer was a lot darker (it almost resembled a dunkelweizen), and it had an aftertaste that I'm convinced is what people blame on the extract. The so-called "twang."

Extract does not need to go through a full 60 minute boil. Add a little for your hops at the beginning, but then add most of it towards the end. If you do a partial mash, don't add any extract until late in the boil.

It's this all the way IMO. It just doesn't need a 60 minute boil, let alone some recipes that call for a 90 minute boil, like when converting an AG to extract. I add maybe a 3rd or less of the extract at the beginning, and the rest at 10 minutes or flameout. Also, when creating my own recipes using extract, a lot of times, I'll make up some of the gravity with corn sugar, maybe 5-8 % which really seems to help dry the beer out when recipes call for a low mash temp or a low FG. Subbing extract for straight two row is a little tricky because most extract was made with some carapils.

 

[unionrdr]

But what if you're not using pre-hopped extract? You need some bittering,& that's typically 60 minutes. But I agree on adding only part of the extract in the boil. I ude half the DME for that part. I've never used it for a full 60 minute boil,though. I use the cooper's pre-hopped (bittering only) cans as a base,adding that at flame out. Works rather well. But when using plain (un-hopped) extract malt,it seems to me you'd need a 60 minute boil for the bittering stage.?...

 

[duckmanco]

But what if you're not using pre-hopped extract? You need some bittering,& that's typically 60 minutes. But I agree on adding only part of the extract in the boil. I ude half the DME for that part. I've never used it for a full 60 minute boil,though. I use the cooper's pre-hopped (bittering only) cans as a base,adding that at flame out. Works rather well. But when using plain (un-hopped) extract malt,it seems to me you'd need a 60 minute boil for the bittering stage.?...

You do need the boil for bittering that's correct, but what you DONT need is to boil the entire amount of extract for the 60 minutes. Just boil about a 1/3 rd of it for the 60 then dump in the rest somewhere from 10 minutes to flameout - flameout. Less caramelization (which is probably what twang is) and truer color.

 

[unionrdr]

I knew it had to be 60 minutes,unless there was some new magical wizardry afoot. And yes,that's how I avoid the twang. Over cooking the extract (LME anyway) is what does it in my understanding. I also get cleaner flavors with the late additions.
It's also my belief as well that lighter wort gravity in the boil gives better utilization. I use 1.5lbs of DME in the boil,if that happens to be half the total. If I'm using only 2lbs in the recipe,I throw in both pounds.

 

[Homebrewtruth]

I knew it had to be 60 minutes,unless there was some new magical wizardry afoot. And yes,that's how I avoid the twang. Over cooking the extract (LME anyway) is what does it in my understanding. I also get cleaner flavors with the late additions.
It's also my belief as well that lighter wort gravity in the boil gives better utilization. I use 1.5lbs of DME in the boil,if that happens to be half the total. If I'm using only 2lbs in the recipe,I throw in both pounds.

I believe the wizardry you might be referring to is called isomerised hop solution; you can add this for bittering with no boil, and flavouring hops can be boiled with dextrose.