The brewer provides this lit of Ingredients on their website - can I convert to a recipe?

[Nubiwan]

I've not done any grain brewing, so figure might as well try to make something I really like when I do start.

Below is the brewers ingredient list. Is there anyway I can estimate what I need to attempt to make something similar. Any suggestions?

Its a Pale (Pale to me) Amber

Hops Variety: US Organic Bravo and Organic Cascade
Malt Variety:
Canadian Organic pale 2-row barley malt and US grown Organic Caramel and Organic Munich Malts
Yeast:
German Lager yeast

ABV: 5.0
IBU: 27
Glassware: Pilsner Pint Glass
Style: American Amber Lager
Serving Temp: 4-6 deg C

 

[dmtaylor]

This will get you pretty close. This recipe for 19 litres or 5 gallons.

3.6 kg Canadian Organic pale 2-row
600 g US grown Organic Crystal 60
600 g US grown Organic Munich
10 g Bravo (boil 60 minutes)
40 g Cascade (boil 5 minutes)
WLP830 German Lager yeast

Use spring water, or to city water add 1/2 Campden tablet in advance to dechlorinate if applicable.
A couple days before brewing, make a 3-litre yeast starter.
Mill your grains, heat 16 litres water to 79 C, mix grains and hot water to mash at 66 C for 1 hour. During the mash, heat another 12 litres water to 88 C. At end of mash, runoff then sparge with the 88 C water. Finally bring to the boil, adding hops per schedule as normal. Chill, aerate, pitch yeast, and ferment around 11-13 C for a couple weeks or until finished. Enjoy.

 

[Nubiwan]

DM - thanks for the reply. The beer in question is a Mill Street 100th Meridian. You familiar with it? If I get close to the citrusy taste of that beer, and the hint of IPA flavour, then I'd be happy.

I might come back and dissect you for the mash up, once I get the nerve to start this. How much does that recipe make?

 

[z-bob]

The recipe looks fine, but I think it will be a lot stronger than 5%. (probably about 6%) Not that there's anything wrong with that...

That recipe makes about 5 gallons (19 litres) If you're new at this, I would use a German ale yeast just because it's easier. Maybe Fermantis K-97 dry yeast. Then brew it again with lager yeast and see which you like better.

 

[Nubiwan]

Again thanks guys for the responses. My local Brew Supply just list these grains & hops. Not the organic variety. Should I care? Not like I will know the difference Well, aside from the beer I am trying to emulate. Rather after a similarity, not a replica. What is the fun in that?

 

[dmtaylor]

DM - thanks for the reply. The beer in question is a Mill Street 100th Meridian. You familiar with it? If I get close to the citrusy taste of that beer, and the hint of IPA flavour, then I'd be happy.

I might come back and dissect you for the mash up, once I get the nerve to start this. How much does that recipe make?

I love Toronto & Ontario but have only ventured up there about 3 times and cannot say I have ever tasted that beer. However thank you for the reference, it allowed me to complete more research. My recipe above will result in something closer to an American pale ale, quite citrusy and an orange copper color, whereas from pictures I can see that the actual Mill Street beer is decidedly gold in color, and based on descriptions, is more about the malt and not so much the hops. As such, here is a new version of the recipe that I think will come out much closer to the real thing:

4 kg Canadian Organic pale 2-row
400 g US grown Organic Crystal 40
400 g US grown Organic Munich
28 g Cascade (boil 60 minutes)
10 g Bravo (boil 5 minutes)
WLP830 German Lager yeast

I do believe my recipe will give 5.0% ABV unless your first-time efficiency is better than about 70%, which would be uncommon for first-timers. Whichever recipe you try, cheers and good luck!

 

[Nubiwan]

Awesome and thanks DM. Organic or not - does it matter? My brew store has listed just the grains and hops, but not specifically organic.

 

[dmtaylor]

Organic or not - does it matter?

That is a question I answer every time I walk through a grocery store these days while rolling my eyes.

 

[Vale71]

I've not done any grain brewing...

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think the best advice you can get is "Get an all grain kit".
If you're new to all grain starting by developing your own recipe and trying to come out with an acceptable clone of another beer is a bit like taking your driving test in a Lamborghini. You won't crash and burn doing your first AG brew () but you might be setting yourself up for some major disappointment.

 

[Vale71]

That is a question I answer every time I walk through a grocery store these days while rolling my eyes.

I don't even walk by the organic section any more. My ophtalmologist told me I can do some serious damage to my eyes with excessive and repetitive eye-rolling...

 

[Vale71]

Wrong button again. Drat!

 

[dmtaylor]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think the best advice you can get is "Get an all grain kit".
If you're new to all grain starting by developing your own recipe and trying to come out with an acceptable clone of another beer is a bit like taking your driving test in a Lamborghini. You won't crash and burn doing your first AG brew () but you might be setting yourself up for some major disappointment.

The term "major" is a bit major. I think this is a relatively basic recipe and hopefully will come out pretty good first try.

 

[Vale71]

Well, I have also taken into consideration all the issues, technical and whatnot, that one usually gets when doing their first AG batch. I wouldn't want to compound that with recipe design and run the risk of running into "major disappointment" territory...

 

[Nubiwan]

Well, I am a big boy and can take a little disappointment.

Would someone kindly point me to a "how to" or step by step for the process involved in doing the Mashup, adding hops, timing and temps etc.

Not sure if a sticky exist for such a thing. Indeed whether each "mash up" is different, but a little guidance would sure help. I do intend to read up before I pull out my stainless pots, tubing and hydrometer.

I can always fall back on my lager and red Ale in a crisis........

Anxious to get going.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

You aren't mixing a Jay-Z and Taylor Swift song, so I wouldn't call it a "mash up". It is simply called mashing.

With regards to how to learn to all grain brew, start here: http://howtobrew.com/

There are many books, but the above is the best IMO. The one linked is free to read, but it is the first edition... I think the most recent edition can be purchased for about $15. That said, the above is all you need to get started!

 

[Nubiwan]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think the best advice you can get is "Get an all grain kit".
If you're new to all grain starting by developing your own recipe and trying to come out with an acceptable clone of another beer is a bit like taking your driving test in a Lamborghini. You won't crash and burn doing your first AG brew () but you might be setting yourself up for some major disappointment.

Thanks Vale.... What would be the difference between the All Grain kit, and working from a recipe provided here? Would I not still have similar rudimentary steps to go through? Mashup (err Mashing), timing of hops, etc?

 

[Nubiwan]

You aren't mixing a Jay-Z and Taylor Swift song, so I wouldn't call it a "mash up". It is simply called mashing.

With regards to how to learn to all grain brew, start here: http://howtobrew.com/

There are many books, but the above is the best IMO. The one linked is free to read, but it is the first edition... I think the most recent edition can be purchased for about $15. That said, the above is all you need to get started!

Who is Jay Z?

Yes, I actually have started reading that. Not sure where I got the link, but thanks for that.

 

[Nubiwan]

You aren't mixing a Jay-Z and Taylor Swift song, so I wouldn't call it a "mash up". It is simply called mashing.

With regards to how to learn to all grain brew, start here: http://howtobrew.com/

There are many books, but the above is the best IMO. The one linked is free to read, but it is the first edition... I think the most recent edition can be purchased for about $15. That said, the above is all you need to get started!

How about following this as a guide?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/easy-partial-mash-brewing-with-pics.75231/

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

How about following this as a guide?

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/category/tutorials/ ?

 

[Nubiwan]

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/category/tutorials/ ?

Awesome - thank you!

 

[z-bob]

Do you have a mill of grinding your grain? What other equipment (kettles, etc) do you have already? Your stove can boil 6 gallons or so at once?

I'm excited for you getting started, not trying to be negative. Just make sure you have answers before you start buying stuff because it affects what size batches you make (there's nothing magic about 5 gallons), whether you have to get the grain milled at the LHBS, and if you're missing anything important because you don't wanna start mashing and realize halfway along that you don't have anyplace to put it

 

[Nubiwan]

Do you have a mill of grinding your grain? What other equipment (kettles, etc) do you have already? Your stove can boil 6 gallons or so at once?

I'm excited for you getting started, not trying to be negative. Just make sure you have answers before you start buying stuff because it affects what size batches you make (there's nothing magic about 5 gallons), whether you have to get the grain milled at the LHBS, and if you're missing anything important because you don't wanna start mashing and realize halfway along that you don't have anyplace to put it

Don't worry, I am as apprehensive as you about getting this going, as several poster have already suggested they would be.

Having watched the links above, am I to understand the two grain options are Brew In A Bag (is that what BIAB meant all this time?), and the All Grain (Batch Sparge), Mash Tun, Vorlauf etc. thing in a cooler (that cooler thing just looked weird)? Any pros and cons to either method. Is there another method I don't know about? Mash Bag thing just looked tidier to me, but perhaps I missed something, having briefly reviewed each process.

Still, I think I might be leaning toward the bag option, and thought about maintaining a mash temp in the oven. I do have a separate kitchen in the house downstairs, where I can hide from the wife, with a stove, sink, brew smell etc. I have a couple of larger stainless pots, 4 or 5 plastic pales. I would anticipate cooling the wort down in the great outdoors, where it has averaged minus 5 here for about 3 weeks. One plus to bogus winter weather.

My Brew Shop has a mill. They will Mill for you or you can self mill, I was told. This actually leads to more questions. How fine do you mill the grains - finer = stronger perhaps? How long do grains last once milled, versus before milled?

Apprehensive, but getting a little excited at the prospect of all this. For sure I want to make sure I have my ducks in line before I start......

Really appreciate all the tips I am getting.

 

[Nubiwan]

I love Toronto & Ontario but have only ventured up there about 3 times and cannot say I have ever tasted that beer. However thank you for the reference, it allowed me to complete more research. My recipe above will result in something closer to an American pale ale, quite citrusy and an orange copper color, whereas from pictures I can see that the actual Mill Street beer is decidedly gold in color, and based on descriptions, is more about the malt and not so much the hops. As such, here is a new version of the recipe that I think will come out much closer to the real thing:

4 kg Canadian Organic pale 2-row
400 g US grown Organic Crystal 40
400 g US grown Organic Munich
28 g Cascade (boil 60 minutes)
10 g Bravo (boil 5 minutes)
WLP830 German Lager yeast

I do believe my recipe will give 5.0% ABV unless your first-time efficiency is better than about 70%, which would be uncommon for first-timers. Whichever recipe you try, cheers and good luck!

Hey DM, I was wondering if I could use the same recipe for a BIAB? Not sure I ready for the All Grain approach at this point. However, the idea of using my existing pots to "brew in bag" is much more appealing, and accessible to me, and I would essentially still be making a beer from scratch. Or, would I? would I need extract to brew in bag?

Does the recipe change if I go BIAB? Hope this is not a stupid question. Perhaps I should have thought it through?

 

[dmtaylor]

Hey DM, I was wondering if I could use the same recipe for a BIAB? Not sure I ready for the All Grain approach at this point. However, the idea of using my existing pots to "brew in bag" is much more appealing, and accessible to me, and I would essentially still be making a beer from scratch. Or, would I? would I need extract to brew in bag?

Does the recipe change if I go BIAB? Hope this is not a stupid question. Perhaps I should have thought it through?

BIAB is a great way to brew all-grain, and is what I do for almost every batch. No need for fancy equipment, just mash in the bag, pull the bag out when done. No need to add any extract. Just be sure to mill the grains well, and to stir well at the beginning of the mash to eliminate dough balls. Follow the instructions I provided previously and you'll have a wonderful beer on your first try, I can almost guarantee it. Cheers.

 

[Nubiwan]

BIAB is a great way to brew all-grain, and is what I do for almost every batch. No need for fancy equipment, just mash in the bag, pull the bag out when done. No need to add any extract. Just be sure to mill the grains well, and to stir well at the beginning of the mash to eliminate dough balls. Follow the instructions I provided previously and you'll have a wonderful beer on your first try, I can almost guarantee it. Cheers.

Got me excited.... My next batch for sure, I will try this. I am sitting on two extract brews now, but its Jerffersons time (movin on up - to the East Side LOL - mebbe your not old enough to remember).

A few question about your instructions here:

Use spring water, or to city water add 1/2 Campden tablet in advance to dechlorinate if applicable.
A couple days before brewing, make a 3-litre yeast starter.
Mill your grains, heat 16 litres water to 79 C, mix grains and hot water to mash at 66 C for 1 hour. During the mash, heat another 12 litres water to 88 C. At end of mash, runoff then sparge with the 88 C water. Finally bring to the boil, adding hops per schedule as normal. Chill, aerate, pitch yeast, and ferment around 11-13 C for a couple weeks or until finished. Enjoy.
​

Does that water (Yeast Starter 3L, 16L and 12L not add up to 32L)? What am I missing here? Do I split the sparge from the 16L? Use 4L for grains?

I assuming grains will drop water temp from 79 to 66 yes?

By runoff, do you mean removing grain bag, and sparging into same wort in kettle? I assume so.

How fine to mill grains? LHBS will mill them for me, or I can do it at store. What instructions? Pretty sure they will have mill preset.

Last question - Maybe!!!!

I saw a guy on youtube - a crasy aussie, using his stove oven - preset to 150 C to keep his wort temps constatn. What else would you advise? Can I keep heat on burner? Think I might have to use a stove top.

Cheers DM

 

[dmtaylor]

Does that water (Yeast Starter 3L, 16L and 12L not add up to 32L)? What am I missing here? Do I split the sparge from the 16L? Use 4L for grains?

I assuming grains will drop water temp from 79 to 66 yes?

By runoff, do you mean removing grain bag, and sparging into same wort in kettle? I assume so.

How fine to mill grains? LHBS will mill them for me, or I can do it at store. What instructions? Pretty sure they will have mill preset.

Last question - Maybe!!!!

I saw a guy on youtube - a crasy aussie, using his stove oven - preset to 150 C to keep his wort temps constatn. What else would you advise? Can I keep heat on burner? Think I might have to use a stove top.

From the yeast starter, use only the yeast sediment at the bottom and throw away the liquid. This is commonly done for lager beers. It will only be a few mL of yeast sediment and that is okay. Most of the 3L is then gone, not used. You can drink some if you're interested to see how it tastes.

Mash with the 16L, and sparge with the 12L. I wrote the recipe for mashing in a cooler, so some of the terms about runoff etc. might not apply, but I think you understand.

The grains will permanently soak up roughly 835 mL/kg of grain unless you squeeze the bag hard. Personally I don't squeeze, I've assumed a traditional mash and sparge in the instructions above. If you squeeze hard the way many BIAB brewers do, then you'll need less water. I'm not sure how much exactly, maybe the permanent loss goes down to 200 mL/kg but that is only a guess as I don't brew that way. My analysis assumes no squeezing, hence the significant volume loss you detected here.

When it's time to sparge, you can do as I do and pour your hot 16L sparge water into a cooler or big bucket, then dunk the bag into it, stir well for a couple of minutes, then pull the bag and throw away the spent grains, and combine the sparge liquid back into the kettle and brew as normal from there. To get more fancy, you can strain all the liquid again through a fine mesh bag to remove more of the tiny grain bits. It's optional but I do it. Most BIAB brewers don't.

Mill the grains very fine. There should be a fairly high percentage of flour after milling, I would say 15% flour or so, and every kernel should be broken up into at least 6 or 7 bits. At your shop you should request to mill them through at least twice because shop owners usually set the gap too wide and it results in low efficiency. Longer term you'll just want to get your own mill and not worry about what the shop does with their gap.

I have never used an oven to hold mash temperature, and frankly I think it's unnecessary. If you are concerned about losing temperature during the mash, don't be. Most of the conversion is done in the first 20 minutes or so anyway, and you can always plan to start the mash a little warm about 67 C and just let it fall to 63 C by the end of the mash, and it won't hurt anything at all. If it gets any hotter or colder than those temperatures, I would add a little heat on the stove top or a little cold water (we're talking just a cup at a time) to bring it down if needed, but anywhere in the 63-67 C range is like Goldilocks, perfect.

P.S. Yup I got the Jefferson's reference. Finally get a piece of the piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie.

 

[Nubiwan]

From the yeast starter, use only the yeast sediment at the bottom and throw away the liquid. This is commonly done for lager beers. It will only be a few mL of yeast sediment and that is okay. Most of the 3L is then gone, not used. You can drink some if you're interested to see how it tastes.

Mash with the 16L, and sparge with the 12L. I wrote the recipe for mashing in a cooler, so some of the terms about runoff etc. might not apply, but I think you understand.

The grains will permanently soak up roughly 835 mL/kg of grain unless you squeeze the bag hard. Personally I don't squeeze, I've assumed a traditional mash and sparge in the instructions above. If you squeeze hard the way many BIAB brewers do, then you'll need less water. I'm not sure how much exactly, maybe the permanent loss goes down to 200 mL/kg but that is only a guess as I don't brew that way. My analysis assumes no squeezing, hence the significant volume loss you detected here.

When it's time to sparge, you can do as I do and pour your hot 16L sparge water into a cooler or big bucket, then dunk the bag into it, stir well for a couple of minutes, then pull the bag and throw away the spent grains, and combine the sparge liquid back into the kettle and brew as normal from there. To get more fancy, you can strain all the liquid again through a fine mesh bag to remove more of the tiny grain bits. It's optional but I do it. Most BIAB brewers don't.

Mill the grains very fine. There should be a fairly high percentage of flour after milling, I would say 15% flour or so, and every kernel should be broken up into at least 6 or 7 bits. At your shop you should request to mill them through at least twice because shop owners usually set the gap too wide and it results in low efficiency. Longer term you'll just want to get your own mill and not worry about what the shop does with their gap.

I have never used an oven to hold mash temperature, and frankly I think it's unnecessary. If you are concerned about losing temperature during the mash, don't be. Most of the conversion is done in the first 20 minutes or so anyway, and you can always plan to start the mash a little warm about 67 C and just let it fall to 63 C by the end of the mash, and it won't hurt anything at all. If it gets any hotter or colder than those temperatures, I would add a little heat on the stove top or a little cold water (we're talking just a cup at a time) to bring it down if needed, but anywhere in the 63-67 C range is like Goldilocks, perfect.

P.S. Yup I got the Jefferson's reference. Finally get a piece of the piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie.

Awesome DM.

Think I got the basics. Didn't realize the grains reduced my water by that much. Makes sense.

I have also seen folk sparging by just pouring hot water over the bag into the kettle, but your second bucket sounds simpler, and less awkward. Can I thrash the bag around, or even squeeze in the bucket? Do I measure the total water before sparging somehow?

Yeast. Can I just dry pitch? How about simply rehydrating in some hot water? Any advantage/necessity to a starter? How is it different to rehydrating?

Any harm having grain residue in the primary? Mebbe I can filter through my spent grain bag into my primary pale.

Wow, lot more questions than I thought.

GJ

 

[z-bob]

Awesome DM.

Think I got the basics. Didn't realize the grains reduced my water by that much. Makes sense.

I have also seen folk sparging by just pouring hot water over the bag into the kettle, but your second bucket sounds simpler, and less awkward. Can I thrash the bag around, or even squeeze in the bucket? Do I measure the total water before sparging somehow?

Yeast. Can I just dry pitch? How about simply rehydrating in some hot water? Any advantage/necessity to a starter? How is it different to rehydrating?

Any harm having grain residue in the primary? Mebbe I can filter through my spent grain bag into my primary pale.

Wow, lot more questions than I thought.

GJ

Here's what I do. I do it because it's easier using my equipment; might not be the same for you: I usually brew 4 gallon batches in an 8 gallon kettle, but I have an old 5 gallon kettle and it will work too, I just have to be more careful about boil-overs. I mash-in with 4 gallons of water. After an hour, I pull out the bag and let it drain a bit, then hang it from the cabinet handle above the stove and let it drain for a few minutes more. Then (wearing thick rubber gloves) I twist and squeeze the bag but I don't get crazy with it. I transfer the bag to a white 5 gallon bucket and pour 2 gallons of dechlorinated hot tapwater over it (about 120 degrees) and stir it up. I let that soak, stirring occasionally, for about 10 minutes. Meanwhile I'm heating the other wort. I drain the bag again, squeeze again (easier because it's not so hot), and pour the bucket into the kettle and finish bringing it to a boil. Between the grain absorption losses, boil off, and hops absorption, I lose about 2 gallons which is what I sparged with.

The flour that makes it all the way into the primary doesn't seem to hurt anything.

The yeast companies used to say you should rehydrate the yeast in warm water before pitching. Now some of them are saying it's not necessary. People do it both ways, and I'm not sure one way is better than the other.

 

[dmtaylor]

your second bucket sounds simpler, and less awkward. Can I thrash the bag around, or even squeeze in the bucket? Do I measure the total water before sparging somehow?

Yeast. Can I just dry pitch? How about simply rehydrating in some hot water? Any advantage/necessity to a starter? How is it different to rehydrating?

Any harm having grain residue in the primary? Mebbe I can filter through my spent grain bag into my primary pale.

Wow, lot more questions than I thought.

Yes, yes, you can stir the bag well in the bucket, and squeeze if you wish.

Yeast... If you are going to try a dried yeast, you can rehydrate if you want, or just use 2 or 3 packs and don't worry and don't need a starter. I like the dried option called S-189 best, if you are looking for recommendations. Otherwise if you try a liquid yeast like WLP830, 833, or Wyeast 2206 or 2308, then yes I recommend a starter.

I do think there is a chance for astringent flavor with grain bits, but not positive.

 

[Nubiwan]

Going to go bottle my IPA ASAP, so I can free up some primary space.

What about fermentation for this recipe? Is it strictly an Amber/IPA style, meaning get it while it's fresh, or can I let it sit in the fermenter 3-4 weeks or more?

My concern being bottles that I have simply run out of.

Super bowl should put paid to that issue - all the same.

Do I take and OG test somewhere inthis mash process?

Final question.... De chlorinated water. My water is treated, but not like It is in larger centres. I cannot ever smell chlorine on it, and my other extract beers taste just fine. Nothing boiled in them at all. Is it a big deal for grain applications. Will boiling take care of coloring issue? What if I use filtered water from a local water supplier. Reverse osmosis type thing which filters impurities and chlorine.

 

[dmtaylor]

Time in the fermenter is probably not super critical. Depends how picky you are about your hoppy beers. I'm not picky. If you are, then get it while it's freshest.

You don't need to measure OG until after the boil like normal. Up to you if you want to test pre-boil and adjust for volume difference.

You're lucky if you have never yet experienced the horror of chlorophenol, which tastes like medicine and Band-Aids. You can continue to try your luck, or add Campden to your water before you brew to eliminate the chlorine. I too brewed for several years before it happened to me, but once it did, I began adding Campden and haven't had problems since. Chlorophenol can occur with both extract and all-grain brews. Filtering is a good idea too.

 

[z-bob]

I use potassium metabisulfite powder to dechlorinate my mash water (just a pinch), and usually use vitamin C in my sparge water. Either will work. They are really cheap insurance against chlorophenol. I have forgotten to dechlor my sparge water before and got away with it, but I know my water has chloramine in it so I just got lucky that time.

If you buy bottled water or filtered water it should be dechlorinated already. But with the filtered water, you might wanna use K-Meta or Campden anyway just to make sure.

 

[Nubiwan]

I love Toronto & Ontario but have only ventured up there about 3 times and cannot say I have ever tasted that beer. However thank you for the reference, it allowed me to complete more research. My recipe above will result in something closer to an American pale ale, quite citrusy and an orange copper color, whereas from pictures I can see that the actual Mill Street beer is decidedly gold in color, and based on descriptions, is more about the malt and not so much the hops. As such, here is a new version of the recipe that I think will come out much closer to the real thing:

4 kg Canadian Organic pale 2-row
400 g US grown Organic Crystal 40
400 g US grown Organic Munich
28 g Cascade (boil 60 minutes)
10 g Bravo (boil 5 minutes)
WLP830 German Lager yeast

I do believe my recipe will give 5.0% ABV unless your first-time efficiency is better than about 70%, which would be uncommon for first-timers. Whichever recipe you try, cheers and good luck!

Can't believe it's been over a year since I requested this and still to tackle my first BIAB. I've simply not got the time to do all grain, and kit and kilo are simply too quick and easy with, for me at least, more than acceptable results.

Anyway, here I am, with a little "lockdown" time on my hands. Seriously contemplating a BIAB assault. Couple of questions. Can I have the grain bill to half my final volume? Say 3 gallons is 3/5 of the grain bill? I don't have immediate access to a 10 gallon plus pot.

I also read elsewhere that other grains (Golden Promise) are better suited for IPA styles than 2-row. Is this the case. Should I just stick with the 2-row?

 

[z-bob]

@Nubiwan: Recipes scale pretty well but maybe not perfectly. Going from 5 gallons to 3 should be fine. 2-Row vs Golden Promise? Just use the one you have. Either will work but they'll be different. Brew both and tell us which you liked better

 

[Nubiwan]

I love Toronto & Ontario but have only ventured up there about 3 times and cannot say I have ever tasted that beer. However thank you for the reference, it allowed me to complete more research. My recipe above will result in something closer to an American pale ale, quite citrusy and an orange copper color, whereas from pictures I can see that the actual Mill Street beer is decidedly gold in color, and based on descriptions, is more about the malt and not so much the hops. As such, here is a new version of the recipe that I think will come out much closer to the real thing:

4 kg Canadian Organic pale 2-row
400 g US grown Organic Crystal 40
400 g US grown Organic Munich
28 g Cascade (boil 60 minutes)
10 g Bravo (boil 5 minutes)
WLP830 German Lager yeast

I do believe my recipe will give 5.0% ABV unless your first-time efficiency is better than about 70%, which would be uncommon for first-timers. Whichever recipe you try, cheers and good luck!

Was wondering why you switched the hop schedule from your original recipe at the top? Cascade V Bravo is reversed. Was it intentional or in error?

Further, my LHBS does not supply Bravo hops. Is Columbus a decent substitute?

If I have a big enough vessel, can I just skip sparge, or is Sparging a good way to extract more sugars from bag?

Probably getting a 13 Gallon Kettle tomorrow, so excited about this.

 

[dmtaylor]

Was wondering why you switched the hop schedule from your original recipe at the top? Cascade V Bravo is reversed. Was it intentional or in error?

Further, my LHBS does not supply Bravo hops. Is Columbus a decent substitute?

If I have a big enough vessel, can I just skip sparge, or is Sparging a good way to extract more sugars from bag?

Probably getting a 13 Gallon Kettle tomorrow, so excited about this.

I reversed the hop schedule once I found out that Mill Street 100th Meridian isn't known for being a particularly hoppy beer. But of course if you love citrus then you can do it the first way and you should be very happy with it.

I think Target would be an ideal substitute for Bravo. Columbus is good but is a strong hop. If you go this route, I would definitely use Columbus for bittering to keep the hop character more refined.

You can skip sparge if you like, just expect a small hit on efficiency. If you could add an extra 500 g of 2-row, that would work out fine.

Hope you enjoy. Cheers.

 

[Nubiwan]

I reversed the hop schedule once I found out that Mill Street 100th Meridian isn't known for being a particularly hoppy beer. But of course if you love citrus then you can do it the first way and you should be very happy with it.

I think Target would be an ideal substitute for Bravo. Columbus is good but is a strong hop. If you go this route, I would definitely use Columbus for bittering to keep the hop character more refined.

You can skip sparge if you like, just expect a small hit on efficiency. If you could add an extra 500 g of 2-row, that would work out fine.

Hope you enjoy. Cheers.

Well, I got enough grain to do 2 x 5 gallon batches, so I think I will reverse hops in each batch to see how it goes. Could I get some recommendations on strike and mash temps, and strike volume for a 5 gallon batch? I have a 10 Gallon kettle. Is it big enough. Should I consider Sparging for efficiency sake? How would I adjust strike volume for sparging? Cheers all. Getting excited about my first bagger.

Finally, do I mash and boil for an hour? That just a general guide, or specific to the grain I am using? Can I ask why some people do it for 45 minutes, even less (30 mins)?

 

[dmtaylor]

Well, I got enough grain to do 2 x 5 gallon batches, so I think I will reverse hops in each batch to see how it goes. Could I get some recommendations on strike and mash temps, and strike volume for a 5 gallon batch? I have a 10 Gallon kettle. Is it big enough. Should I consider Sparging for efficiency sake? How would I adjust strike volume for sparging? Cheers all. Getting excited about my first bagger.

See my previous responses.

Finally, do I mash and boil for an hour? That just a general guide, or specific to the grain I am using? Can I ask why some people do it for 45 minutes, even less (30 mins)?

This is entirely up to you. Personally I've been mashing for only 40-45 minutes for the past 15 years and happy with my results. I haven't played much with shortening the boil as there will be a brewhouse efficiency impact from this but you can try it. That's really the only impact, should not have any noticeable flavor impact.

 

[Nubiwan]

See my previous responses.



This is entirely up to you. Personally I've been mashing for only 40-45 minutes for the past 15 years and happy with my results. I haven't played much with shortening the boil as there will be a brewhouse efficiency impact from this but you can try it. That's really the only impact, should not have any noticeable flavor impact.

Thanks again DM. Really appreciate you helping me out here:

Will look atop for water volumes. I forgot you got into some detail earlier.

If I may ask another few novice questions. Hopefully, not already answered above. I dont think so....

1. When and how do you take a SG reading? After you mash? After you cool down? Both?
2. How do I know what my SG should be at any point in the process? Brewersfriend caclulator?
3. Does a hydrometer still work at high temps (mash / boil), or do you need the refractometer for that?
4. Will SG after mash, be any different from SG after the boil-prior to pitching? I assume it has to be because volume will have decreased - yes?

Cheers

 

[dmtaylor]

If I may ask another few novice questions. Hopefully, not already answered above. I dont think so....

1. When and how do you take a SG reading? After you mash? After you cool down? Both?
2. How do I know what my SG should be at any point in the process? Brewersfriend caclulator?
3. Does a hydrometer still work at high temps (mash / boil), or do you need the refractometer for that?
4. Will SG after mash, be any different from SG after the boil-prior to pitching? I assume it has to be because volume will have decreased - yes?

Many people test SG between mash and boil. I usually don't but if you're curious, then go ahead and measure. After boiling and chilling the wort is the most critical time to measure of course. But yes there is a relationship between SG and volume. Multiplied the two should stay constant, like SG1 x V1 = SG2 x V2. So if you know your boiloff rate (like 3 liters per hour or whatever) you can use the pre-boil SG1 & volume V1 to predict the post-boil SG2 based on that with your expectation for post-boil volume V2.

Brewers Friend or similar calculators or software are certainly helpful. Many people like BeerSmith, and if I wasn't already deeply invested in StrangeBrew (yeah it's Canadian, hoser!) then I'd probably be using either BeerSmith or Brewer's Friend.

A hydrometer is severely affected by temperature. Samples must be cool for hydrometer to read accurately. Temperature is also a consideration with refractometer, but the advantage with refractometer is that since you only need like 3 drops of liquid, it cools down in a matter of about 10-20 seconds so you don't even need to worry about it. For that reason if measuring hot liquids, refractometer has the advantage. But for utmost accuracy, a hydrometer is still the most reliable, since it actually measures specific gravity, as opposed to a refractometer which measures a totally different property of refraction of light through the liquid, which approximately equates to percent sugar but will not always match exactly a hydrometer. That being said, I use both and I really do love my refractometer, it's "close enough" and extremely easy to use.