The Big Three should die

[Nomofett]

Haha. Yeah, it's not as good as U.S. craft for sure.
When did you live here? I hear it used to be crap. It's getting better but still not as good. Did you ever try OhLaHo? There are more places popping up a lot more lately. I think three places opened up in Kansai last year.
I guess we just disagree about Asahi being quality, but that's fine. I doubt either can convince the other.

Yeah, Being illegal doesn't stop me but it makes it extremely difficult. And some people here get weird when I talk about it because it's illegal. A shop just opened kinda near me (only the third in the whole country) but it's small and none are brick and mortar, online sales only because they don't want to run afoul the law. (Thanks Asahi, Kirin, etc...)

Also, do you know about the size requirements to open a brewery here? It finally changed in the late 90's I think, but it was so big that Sierra Nevada wouldn't have been able to open a brewery here. It's still quite huge and you have to pretend you are making happoshu, but it used to be insane.

 

[worlddivides]

I lived in Japan a total of 10 years. I went to college in Japan 2002-2004, then went back to the states, then moved back in early 2005 and stayed until late 2012. Lived mostly in Tokyo (but also in southern Saitama and Western Chiba). I was in Japan for about 3 weeks last October (2015) and went to a few craft beer bars in Tokyo.

I have never tried Oh La Ho, although I did see it on the menu when I visited in October (which was the first time I saw it). I tried a few other Japanese regional craft beers there, as well as a few imported from the US that I hadn't seen in California.

There have been several law changes in Japan that affected craft beer and microbreweries, but the biggest was in 1994. This was a HUGE change. Before 1994, you could not get a license unless you made a minimum of 2 million liters a year. In 1994, this was dropped from 2 million liters to 60,000 liters. Still a lot, sure, but that's a 97% decrease. That said, this didn't make it as easy to open a craft brewery as it is in the US, which is why the majority of craft breweries in Japan were opened by sake or shochu manufacturers that were already operating in the production of more "traditional" alcoholic beverages (for Japan, that is).

 

[Nomofett]

Yeah, it's tough to get those numbers. Best bet is a happoshu license, 6000 liters. Still a lot but closer. I heard you can get a 3 year license where you build up to that amount. (I've been thinking about starting a small something here)

Id like to visit Tokyo cause I heard there's a lot more craft beers up there. My friend even got Zombie Dust and some Pipeline on his last trip up. (I'm in Kansai) the thing that makes me happy is how Oregon beer is getting popular here (my home state) there's an Oregon themed bar in Sapporo, Tokyo, Nagano, and Osaka now. But still too spendy. I'm hoping they kick up their domestic craft soon, but it's hard cause Japanese people's tastes are a bit different so they generally aren't up for big bitter or even strong flavored beers as much as very subtle ones. And they are very much into German style for day to day and Belgian for craft, and when they make up their minds in one style they stick to it (like whisky)

OhLaHo is not bad, not great but you can get it and Yo-Ho beers at lots of convini's now.

 

[Nomofett]

Well yeah I'd say 12% is massively flourishing. You have to look at it in a timetable, not a datapoint. If you look at the last 5-10 years that 12% is a MASSIVE spike

It's a spike yeah, but 12% isn't exactly flourishing IMO. I wouldn't say that flip phones are currently flourishing, but they account for more than 12% of phones sold. Especially considering that 12% is split between thousands and thousands of breweries while the other 88% is a pretty small number of companies

 

[worlddivides]

Id like to visit Tokyo cause I heard there's a lot more craft beers up there. My friend even got Zombie Dust and some Pipeline on his last trip up. (I'm in Kansai) the thing that makes me happy is how Oregon beer is getting popular here (my home state) there's an Oregon themed bar in Sapporo, Tokyo, Nagano, and Osaka now. But still too spendy. I'm hoping they kick up their domestic craft soon, but it's hard cause Japanese people's tastes are a bit different so they generally aren't up for big bitter or even strong flavored beers as much as very subtle ones. And they are very much into German style for day to day and Belgian for craft, and when they make up their minds in one style they stick to it (like whisky)

Tokyo is definitely the best place to be for craft beers in Japan, but if you can't be in Tokyo, Osaka is the second best place to be. An American friend of mine occasionally would bring American IPAs and APAs over to my apartment when I lived there, and he got them from a craft beer shop in Meguro. Never went there myself (I already had my own places I shopped), but he said they had a decent selection of hoppy beers imported from the states.

But, yeah, German styles are king for beers in Japan. And Scotch is king when it comes to whiskey (just like how Japanese whiskey is made in almost the exact same way as Scotch). Even in the Japanese craft beer world, what gets popular over there isn't the same things that would get popular over here, but that's the same for everything. Sometimes American or European bands that aren't that popular in their home country get really popular in Japan, and likewise, bands that are insanely popular in the US might have very little popularity in Japan. Same thing with beer styles.

On the bright side, when I recently visited Tokyo, some of my friends mentioned that a lot of new brewpubs had opened up, so it's happening. I imagine brewpubs might have completely different legislation.

 

[Nomofett]

Brewpubs are the same, they just call what they make hopposhu so they have t brew less

 

[Bobbybob]

The big three, now the big two did and have done wonderful things for the sciences of malting, barley growing and hop growing. They paid/lobbied for their own self I treat but it helped everyone. We wouldn't even be haveing the argument with out them. I don't like their products but many do. I brew because it matters to me, not my neighborhood. Some of the business practices are awful but that is a reflection of US laws and congress then brewing. I hear Budweiser right out of the tank is amazing and the that the caned stuff isn't even a comparison.

 

[ThatVideoKid]

It's a spike yeah, but 12% isn't exactly flourishing IMO. I wouldn't say that flip phones are currently flourishing, but they account for more than 12% of phones sold. Especially considering that 12% is split between thousands and thousands of breweries while the other 88% is a pretty small number of companies

Well there's that incorrect percentage thinking I was just describing. Flip phones are obviously on a decline, even if they made up 88% of the market share I wouldn't say they were flourishing, as they were 100%. In 5 years the market share of craft beer has doubled, and in 10 it has almost tripled. That's the true measurement of what most people consider to be flourishing. It's more about growth than market share.

 

[Nomofett]

Ah, sorry, I missed the part where you said not as a datapoint.

Yeah, definitely they are on the uptick, which is great. It'd be great if they kept on that uptick and killed off the big three

But it's a hard battle to fight against a huge oligopoly that has a huge influence (some say illegal) on distribution, laws, etc... But let's hope they keep growing at that rate. If they keep it up the thousands of breweries across the country might be equal to the top two companies in only 30-40 years!

Also, numbers games are difficult and misleading. You could say they tripled in 10 years or you can say they gained 10% of the market in the last decade. Or you can say they went from 5-10 percent in 5 years, so they gained an average of 1% a year. One sounds a lot better than the others, it's how drug companies make their medicines sound better or how people make research sound more promising.

 

[ThatVideoKid]

Yeah, I think being in one of the good parts of the country for craft beer influences how I think about the issue too. Even though we have a huge bud lobby, our distributors are "small" and regional. Everyone and their mother could open a nano as long as you follow FDA regulations. The license isn't even very expensive.

Edit: though we have one dumb law. You can't serve alcohol without food. Anywhere. There are no "bars". A brewery can serve up to 5oz samples without food. They can serve you as many as you want, as long as you don't sample the same beer twice. You could have 50 taps and serve someone 250oz of beer as long as it's 5oz of each. But boy you better not want 10oz of one beer and that's it.

 

[kombat]

Yeah, I think being in one of the good parts of the country for craft beer influences how I think about the issue too. Even though we have a huge bud lobby, our distributors are "small" and regional. Everyone and their mother could open a nano as long as you follow FDA regulations. The license isn't even very expensive.

Edit: though we have one dumb law. You can't serve alcohol without food. Anywhere. There are no "bars". A brewery can serve up to 5oz samples without food. They can serve you as many as you want, as long as you don't sample the same beer twice. You could have 50 taps and serve someone 250oz of beer as long as it's 5oz of each. But boy you better not want 10oz of one beer and that's it.

Wait... this is in New Hampshire??? Isn't that the "Live Free Or Die" state???

 

[ThatVideoKid]

Wait... this is in New Hampshire??? Isn't that the "Live Free Or Die" state???

Yup. The easy solution is to just have food though. One brewery I go to just has a crockpot full of chili. Almost 0 regulations on preparing food in a crockpot. So they get to serve pints!

It's okay though because they have made opening a nano sooooo easy. Distribution is also very locally run so they are easier to negotiate with and they don't carry as huge of a cost hurdle for them to just touch your beer. Self-distribution is also allowed with little regulation which is very nice.

I can walk to three great breweries easily though so I wish I could get some pints...but this way I can justify going to all three and trying most of the taps. From the Barrel, Rockingham and Kelsen if any of you have heard of them.

 

[unionrdr]

Wow. Makes me wish Ohio was like that! Especially since there is such a rich brewing history I've experienced one way or another in my 60 years. My middle son & I went to Ohio City in Cleveland recently. That's where many of the old breweries were. I found Cleveland Brew Supply there, in an OLD store in a long building. Great Lakes is on the block behind it! Boy, is that a beautiful place! Very well laid out. Gotta find someone to share pints with & hit that sucker! :rockin:

 

[Nomofett]

Yeah that's an odd law. I also come from what I'd say is a pretty craft beer friendly area (Portland, Or.) and we have some odd laws but none that strange.
We had a law that every bar had to serve 5 distinct kinds of hot food but I think that's gone because when I visited back home many bars didn't serve any food. But all allowed you to get food, so maybe they just have to allow it or something. I should look into it

 

[angrybits]

That's how it is in NC except they can have tasting rooms. Can't sell food there .

I wonder how OMB in Charlotte got around that? They have a full menu and bar:

http://www.oldemeckbrew.com/brauhaus/#menu

 

[ThatVideoKid]

I wonder how OMB in Charlotte got around that? They have a full menu and bar:



http://www.oldemeckbrew.com/brauhaus/#menu

The tasting room might count as a separate business entity or something

 

[jjeffers09]

quickly becoming the big 1... wtf

 

[woo_pig]

Where I went they had to walk the food from the kitchen from across the street. And deliver it .It might have changed that was like 3 years ago .

 

[Zekk]

Die like this?

 

[unionrdr]

My avatar came from a google search for POC beer stuff. It was fun to look at all the old Cleveland brewery adds, cans, bottles, etc. Those were the beers of my youth I still remember fondly. I don't care what people say, the old school lagers & pilsners were a sight better than today's.

 

[agrazela]

...

 

[unionrdr]

^^LOL!!^^ I wish I'd have thought of that one agra! I liked his character in that one. I lol'd when he was eating that Korean food & said, " this **** food is pretty good!" I remember one of my two uncles I look like remembering how they called them " gooks" during the Korean War.

 

[jjeffers09]

Die like this?

Exactly like that

 

[unionrdr]

Exactly like that

...and millions of beer drinkers in Western Indiana cried out in terror...

 

[woo_pig]

One has to wonder how many raving lunatics there are out there in the world.

Every single person is.

 

[GrogNerd]

One has to wonder how many raving lunatics there are out there in the world.

Every single person is.

repeats the 3rd post in this thread and 3 invisible images

SPAM

 

[passedpawn]

poof

 

[beernutz]

I would love nothing more than seeing BMC to become a part of the past. Those old hunting dogs need put down. In a next to inhumane way...

Yes, let's put thousands of people out of work just because you are a whiny little bitch.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

No beers were harmed in the making of that video. Just the cans filled with water.

 

[jjeffers09]

Yes, let's put thousands of people out of work just because you are a whiny little bitch.

oohhh okay tough guy