The 2014 NHC First Round - Results/Speculation Thread

[QoB]

And this from the Competition Director in Denver:


"Five and six down, processing seventh database. Lots of interruptions today, though. I shall persevere...."

 

[bob1852]

Maybe there should be a "HBT Club"

There is...

 

[QoB]

Here is what bugs me a little bit.....The Brewers Association just had the World Beer Cup in Denver. They judged over 5000 beers in two days AND had the final results AND an awards ceremony 3-4 days later!! Yet we can't even get a list of winners posted on the web a week later? What in the world goes into a "certified" list that takes so long?

Because they use judges who get a stipend, many are industry professionals, others are BLOWHARDS - esp. this one ****** calling himself The Beer Sommelier®.

It's also an incredible amount of $$ to enter the competition, too. And it centers around the CBC - which was about $800 a pop. Massive $$ maker.

 

[zodiak3000]

Congrats. I think your judges were just bragging that they got to try the Younger.

Seriously though congrats. If that 42 doesn't advance you, I'm hosed. Because I also have a beer in that category. Did you get yours by mail? If so, I'm probably an extra day, but I can start looking for mine maybe....

Thanks! Yup, in the mail today. I'd guess yours will be tomorrow. Do you have any recollection what the highest scoring cat 14 was?

 

[mroakley]

Thanks! Yup, in the mail today. I'd guess yours will be tomorrow. Do you have any recollection what the highest scoring cat 14 was?

42 is a great score!

But it's important to remember placing / advancing to the second round doesn't always follow score.

A couple of years back, my baltic porter scored a 45. Highest in the category. Went to the mini BOS and didn't advance. At that stage, it's not about score, it's about what the judges feel is the best example of the style.

At least that's my understanding. For those that judge, is this fairly accurate?

 

[zodiak3000]

That's the way all of the Cover Sheets should be. The announcement of whether or not you moved on should be sanctioned first by the AHA and then posted on the website.
Congratulations - BTW!!!

Thanks for the clarification, hope it advances!

 

[mwilcox]

Because they use judges who get a stipend, many are industry professionals, others are BLOWHARDS - esp. this one ****** calling himself The Beer Sommelier®.

It's also an incredible amount of $$ to enter the competition, too. And it centers around the CBC - which was about $800 a pop. Massive $$ maker.

heh.
Yeah I imagine if we'd just had the World Beer Cup in Denver and Eleven Other Cities Spread Around the Country Over Three Weekends (Name needs a little work) they wouldn't be official results yet either.

Amazing what $160 to enter a beer can get you. An entire staff. Anyone want to pay that for homebrew?

 

[Braufessor]

There is...

Woah...... what? Where is this club you speak of? Is there a "thread" about it anywhere, or how does one go about "joining?"

 

[mroakley]

That's the way all of the Cover Sheets should be. The announcement of whether or not you moved on should be sanctioned first by the AHA and then posted on the website.

Of course nothing is official until sanctioned and announced by the AHA. However, in my experience, unless that mini BOS box is checked and a place awarded written on the cover sheet, it's most likely not advancing. I know there are exceptions...but they seem to be atypical.

 

[bob1852]

Woah...... what? Where is this club you speak of? Is there a "thread" about it anywhere, or how does one go about "joining?"

IIRC, someone formed "HomebrewTalk brewers" club with AHA.

I had forgotten about it, until I was looking at some of the winners and saw a couple of entries with that as the club name.

 

[mwilcox]

42 is a great score!

But it's important to remember placing / advancing to the second round doesn't always follow score.

A couple of years back, my baltic porter scored a 45. Highest in the category. Went to the mini BOS and didn't advance. At that stage, it's not about score, it's about what the judges feel is the best example of the style.

At least that's my understanding. For those that judge, is this fairly accurate?

very accurate. If the flight is small, and one team of judges handles it, the top scoring beer generally does finish first. However if it is close I will often retaste the top few beers side by side to see if we were being too hard on the first beer (too cold, or subconsciously leaving room for an even better beer, etc). It is more likely that I'd do this for 3rd/4th, since that decision is critical in the NHC First Round.

The top scoring IPA in KC did not advance. I believe its avg score was something like 46.5. However in mini-BOS I was told it showed a lot of diacetyl. My friend and I won the Cat with a 39.

 

[QoB]

42 is a great score!

But it's important to remember placing / advancing to the second round doesn't always follow score.

A couple of years back, my baltic porter scored a 45. Highest in the category. Went to the mini BOS and didn't advance. At that stage, it's not about score, it's about what the judges feel is the best example of the style.

At least that's my understanding. For those that judge, is this fairly accurate?

Exactly right. My 45 point Saison did not place in NHC 2013 but my 38 point light lager did...

 

[jbaysurfer]

Exactly right. My 45 point Saison did not place in NHC 2013 but my 38 point light lager did...

^
It SURE did! LOL...

 

[TobyG]

No the proctor (the person who was serving us the beer for the exam is the person I am thinking was the proctor, but I could be wrong) told us that. The Administrator wasn't sure how long so he told us to ask the proctor.

I think that the confusion may be in how the BJCP uses the terminology, which is a little non-standard. The Administrator is the guy serving the beer. He typically will know all the details on exactly what you're being served. The Proctors (a minimum of two are required) are typically National rank or higher judges (the BJCP does allow occasional special exceptions) who are there to set the baseline scores. They have no more information about the beers than examinees have, but are allowed the BJCP Style Guidelines for reference. The Graders use their scoresheets as the rubric to grade exams. There is also occasionally a Sponsor who may be an individual or club who organized/scheduled the exam. I think the Administrator you're referring to may have been the Sponsor and the Proctor was the Administrator (at least in how the BJCP uses the terms).

 

[TobyG]

At that stage, it's not about score, it's about what the judges feel is the best example of the style.

At least that's my understanding. For those that judge, is this fairly accurate?

That's exactly how Mini-BOS and BOS work in my experience. I've had beers not even advance to Mini-BOS that scored higher than the beer that won the category simply because they were in a tougher flight within that category. Typically the judges discuss each category with the site coordinator or head judge and determine how many they're going to push per flight or per category. If you get a bad draw and wind up being in a flight full of 40+ point beers, your 39 might not advance and the category may get taken by a 36 that was up against a bunch of 29- beers, especially since the Mini-BOS is probably being judged by a completely different set of judges.

 

[BroStefan]

42 is a great score!



But it's important to remember placing / advancing to the second round doesn't always follow score.



A couple of years back, my baltic porter scored a 45. Highest in the category. Went to the mini BOS and didn't advance. At that stage, it's not about score, it's about what the judges feel is the best example of the style.



At least that's my understanding. For those that judge, is this fairly accurate?

And at that point you are not competing just with the BALTIC Porters but with ALL three sub-cats of porters. It is a whole different ball game.


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[pjj2ba]

IIRC, someone formed "HomebrewTalk brewers" club with AHA.

I had forgotten about it, until I was looking at some of the winners and saw a couple of entries with that as the club name.

Hey, that is my club - and me! No club within a 45 min. drive, although we are working on it, so until that gets going Homebrewtalk brewers is my official club listing in competitions

 

[blizzard]

IIRC, someone formed "HomebrewTalk brewers" club with AHA.

I had forgotten about it, until I was looking at some of the winners and saw a couple of entries with that as the club name.

I wish I had known that! Not that my beers are really good enough to contribute any points, or whatever happens with the clubs.

 

[mroakley]

Hey, that is my club - and me! No club within a 45 min. drive, although we are working on it, so until that gets going Homebrewtalk brewers is my official club listing in competitions

Way cool on working to start up a club. :rockin:

I started one with my brother-in-law in 2010 because we didn't want to drive 40 minutes each way on a Friday evening to attend the closest homebrew club meeting.

Good luck!

 

[Braufessor]

Hey, that is my club - and me! No club within a 45 min. drive, although we are working on it, so until that gets going Homebrewtalk brewers is my official club listing in competitions

Wish I would have known too..... I would have "joined" for NHC.... and other comps.

 

[chriswilkes33]

Because they use judges who get a stipend, many are industry professionals, others are BLOWHARDS - esp. this one ****** calling himself The Beer Sommelier®.



It's also an incredible amount of $$ to enter the competition, too. And it centers around the CBC - which was about $800 a pop. Massive $$ maker.

Is this ****** Matt Simpson, or one of the guys that graduated from the sommelier course and won a tournament in Germany to get the sommelier title? There is a German program, much like the cicerone (although a good deal easier it's way more expensive) that graduates people I would be comfortable calling themselves THE sommelier because of the competition. If you meet someone who holds the cicerone, or cicerone title you can trust that they are pretty educated when it comes to tasting beers, the same goes for a sommelier graduate in Germany. Not sure about this guy that thinks a bunch of rate beer posts makes him self an expert...


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[stevo155]

Yeah, what an awesome "club" the bn army is...


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Damned right it is!

 

[sb3000]

Anything new today from the slackers in Nashville on their first round results?



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[Darwin18]

Anything new today from the slackers in Nashville on their first round results?



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First round results from Nashville have been posted on the AHA website.

 

[Coff]

Anyone have an idea when we will here about the St. Paul region? I realize they just judged this weekend, just wondering if there is an estimated timeframe.

 

[calebstringer]

Anyone have an idea when we will here about the St. Paul region? I realize they just judged this weekend, just wondering if there is an estimated timeframe.

Aha told me they're working on it, but no eta

 

[chriswilkes33]

Anyone have an idea when we will here about the St. Paul region? I realize they just judged this weekend, just wondering if there is an estimated timeframe.

The first link in the nhc FAQ page gives hints. Looks like St. Paul is a ways off. 4 more centers are close I guess. Not sure how long the "finalizing" phase is.


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[chriswilkes33]

http://www.homebrewersassociation.o...on/national-homebrew-competition-faq/#results

Sorry, here is the link


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[stevo155]

Janis Gross posted this on her Facebook page yesterday:

Finished processing seventh database. Results from today's processing will be posted tomorrow morning.

So I guess we'll see 3 more regions today. I would guess all would be done by early next week.

 

[socratesbrewing]

Anything new today from the slackers in Nashville on their first round results?



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Nashville is posted. My saison advanced. Still waiting on my score sheets, though. Pretty stoked about advancing.
I used a local yeast company's yeast and they are hoping for some comments about the beer and their yeast, since the beer was nothing but a showcase for their yeast. Hoping it does well in the finals so we can bring some attention to their yeasts.

 

[pvault98]

Looks like the competition was pretty tough on Cat 18 from the Austin center. I received a 40.5 avg score for my BSD and did not place. I did get a 3rd for my Wee Heavy, however. Congrats to the winners!

That makes me feel a little better, my Tripel scored a 39.5 in Austin and did not place either.

On a side note, were all the judges in Austin BJCP certified? Some of my scoresheets listed their BJCP Cert info and other's didn't. The reason I ask is the two entries with the BJCP info were properly filled out for all the sections and had some comments and the two scores for each entry were pretty close. The two other entries lacked the BJCP info by the judges name, there was almost no info or boxes checked, and just a score and the total scores varied greatly btwn the judges.

My saison really annoyed me in particular, it was given a 36 and a 31 with almost no info. The info that was provided or checked off indicated that the flavor matched the style, yet only 10 out of 20 points and how can one judge check off that the beer was "Yellow" and the other "Copper"? It seemed that the scores were arbitrarily given based on the fact that almost none of the boxes in any of the sections were checked off and no notes written. I enter BJCP comps for the qualitative evaluation of the beer so what is the point when you are just given a score with no feedback?

 

[machfive55]

My saison really annoyed me in particular, it was given a 36 and a 31 with almost no info. The info that was provided or checked off indicated that the flavor matched the style, yet only 10 out of 20 points and how can one judge check off that the beer was "Yellow" and the other "Copper"? It seemed that the scores were arbitrarily given based on the fact that almost none of the boxes in any of the sections were checked off and no notes written. I enter BJCP comps for the qualitative evaluation of the beer so what is the point when you are just given a score with no feedback?

I initially found this as well. However, I learned a lot more after I studied the sheet more closely. Not detecting something is as valuable as what they detected. I think you can learn a good deal by what is checked. I do think it is frustrating though to get 10/20 and not know why you were docked...I've seen this many times from comps all over though. Someone mentioned nationals is not the place to get feedback, IDK...another argument perhaps, but a comp is a comp.

 

[TobyG]

On a side note, were all the judges in Austin BJCP certified?

I highly doubt it. I don't recall ever seeing a comp where all the judges were certified.

Some of my scoresheets listed their BJCP Cert info and other's didn't. The reason I ask is the two entries with the BJCP info were properly filled out for all the sections and had some comments and the two scores for each entry were pretty close. The two other entries lacked the BJCP info by the judges name, there was almost no info or boxes checked, and just a score and the total scores varied greatly btwn the judges.

If by greatly you mean more than 7 points apart, that is unusual. However, the rest is pretty standard IME. Even in small competitions, it can be a struggle to recruit adequate certified judges, so pairing an experienced judge with a non-certified or relative newb is normal.

My saison really annoyed me in particular, it was given a 36 and a 31 with almost no info. The info that was provided or checked off indicated that the flavor matched the style, yet only 10 out of 20 points and how can one judge check off that the beer was "Yellow" and the other "Copper"? It seemed that the scores were arbitrarily given based on the fact that almost none of the boxes in any of the sections were checked off and no notes written. I enter BJCP comps for the qualitative evaluation of the beer so what is the point when you are just given a score with no feedback?

NHC is no longer really a feedback competition (if it ever was). The goal of the first round is to pick beers worth judging in the second round. The goal of the second round is to award medals and prizes. I think the AHA's biggest blunder is not making that abundantly clear, and not creating a structure to filter the entries based on merit rather than lottery. It's not like there aren't other similar events (e.g. MCAB)

 

[Coff]

Awesome, thanks folks!

 

[NervousDad]

SACRAMENTO, CA
SAN DIEGO, CA
ZANESVILLE, OH

just got posted... Still no Philly

 

[Braufessor]

.....NHC is no longer really a feedback competition (if it ever was). The goal of the first round is to pick beers worth judging in the second round. The goal of the second round is to award medals and prizes. I think the AHA's biggest blunder is not making that abundantly clear..... (e.g. MCAB)

I agree. Lots and lots of competitions that are great for getting feedback. That is not the purpose of this one.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I did not advance any beers. Stupid judges....stupid aha, stupid lag time in posting the results, everybody sucks!



...well, the first sentence wasn't sarcastic anyway.

Thanks again judges and AHA, next time I'll put a better foot forward.

 

[mroakley]

Placed third in Sacramento for my American IPA. Yay.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Placed third in Sacramento for my American IPA. Yay.

That is outstanding! There were SO many beers in that category especially in Sac. Nice work.

 

[zodiak3000]

Damn, my DIPA with a 42 did not advance. I feel like if your gonna write "better than PTY" on a score sheet it better advance! lol