Switching from 3 vessel to ebiab

[nyer]

I have been brewing on a traditional 3 vessel (kegs) propane rig with a pump for about 15 years. I like it but don't like all the cleaning and space the system takes. I live in florida and it's way to hot to brew in the garage so I have been brewing outside in the backyard where I have a pool, tiki hut and tap system. Its obviously much nicer than the garage.
I want a small electric system now, mainly for storage and I can brew at the tiki bar in the shade. I'm about to order a clawhammer 120 volt system. I would go 220 but getting 220 power out there will be nearly impossible.
Anyways, besides a finer crush to the grain how do you convert your recipes to biab?
I have dozens of recipes that I can nail with my current system but haven't been able to find anything that helps me change my numbers. I also use brewers friend.

 

[RM-MN]

I have been brewing on a traditional 3 vessel (kegs) propane rig with a pump for about 15 years. I like it but don't like all the cleaning and space the system takes. I live in florida and it's way to hot to brew in the garage so I have been brewing outside in the backyard where I have a pool, tiki hut and tap system. Its obviously much nicer than the garage.
I want a small electric system now, mainly for storage and I can brew at the tiki bar in the shade. I'm about to order a clawhammer 120 volt system. I would go 220 but getting 220 power out there will be nearly impossible.
Anyways, besides a finer crush to the grain how do you convert your recipes to biab?
I have dozens of recipes that I can nail with my current system but haven't been able to find anything that helps me change my numbers. I also use brewers friend.

There isn't any magic to BIAB. If you forego a sparge step, your efficiency will go down as you leave sugars in the bag of grains. How much? Maybe 10%. If you don't crush your grains finer, you get the same mash efficiency as a conventional mash tun. If you crush finer it will be hard to predict. Brew a batch, take notes, measure volume and OG carefully, then adjust the next recipe to account for the difference.

 

[MSK_Chess]

I switched from three vessel electric system to a single vessel BIAB system, its great. As RM-MN says you will lose some efficiency if you do not sparge, just add 10% more base malts and experiment until you hit your numbers. You will love the simplicity.

 

[kh54s10]

I'm in the same boat. I just ordered a Unibrau and also in Florida. Though I plan to brew in the kitchen in the A/C during the summer. I plan to do a couple of BIAB - no sparge batches and figure out boil off rates etc, before figuring out a method to sparge. With the Unibrau there is recirculation so I don't think I can mill as fine as most BIAB. -- More experimentation.

Thankfully I am not too picky about things like ABV so if I get less than expected it will be OK.

For my recipes, I use Beersmith and have already installed a start equipment profile for the Unibrau. I am starting with new, simple recipes for the first few. I will then work on converting previously made recipes. I will just pick one, look at the slider scales and change the equipment profile then adjust things until it looks the same.

 

[nyer]

How are people sparging? I read a few things about holding back water and heating it on the stove. I'm not super concerned about efficiency as long as I know how much more grain to add.

 

[kh54s10]

You should be able to use Brewer's Friend to convert your recipes. I don't think any program will do it automatically. With Beersmith I will take a recipe I have already made. Look at where the Gravity, color, IBU, and Estimated ABV sliders are on the graph. I would then change the equipment used. And as soon as I know my brewhouse efficiency I will change that also. Until I know I will use the estimated 72%. My 3 vessel profile used 70%. After that change I would scale the grains until the Gravity slider and color are the same, then scale the hops so that the IBUs are the same. That should have the same estimated ABV. I will adjust as needed. I have never fine tuned a recipe so much that a little difference would be noticed.

 

[doug293cz]

How are people sparging? I read a few things about holding back water and heating it on the stove. I'm not super concerned about efficiency as long as I know how much more grain to add.

If you are not worried about efficiency, then just do no-sparge. This works fine, until you try to brew a big beer where a full volume mash won't fit. Then you need to sparge.

Many people do a dunk sparge, which is equivalent to batch sparging on a 3V system. Lift and drain the bag/basket, and squeeze if you want. Then place the bag/basket in a bucket/pot of water, stir well, and repeat the draining process. Squeezing is more beneficial for efficiency if done on the initial draining, if you only want to squeeze once. Water for a dunk sparge does not need to be heated, but using hot water will shorten the time required to reach boil.

You can also do a pour over sparge. Suspend the bag/basket over the BK, let drain well (optional squeeze), and then slowly pour the sparge water over the top of the bag/basket. Some of the sparge water will go around the outside, but most of it will go thru the grain mass, thus rinsing out residual sugar. Pour over sparging is similar to a fly sparge, but cannot be controlled as precisely. Again, sparge water does not need to be heated.

Brew on

 

[odie]

I thought with a full volume mash and fine crush that efficiency would go up? Just how much sugar is remaining in the bag if it's squeezed and drains completely? My grain absorption is around .08 gal/lb.

 

[kh54s10]

How much is variable. Your efficiency might go up or not depending on many factors. How efficient was the previous process. If really good you might never match it with a full volume mash.

You will leave sugars in the grain if you don't sparge. How much is probably difficult to know or measure.

I am in the same boat. My Unibrau is on order. I will have to dial it in. I have done some BIAB, but never did much to figure efficiencies and such. I did 3 gallon batches in the winter when too cold for me outside.

 

[doug293cz]

I thought with a full volume mash and fine crush that efficiency would go up? Just how much sugar is remaining in the bag if it's squeezed and drains completely? My grain absorption is around .08 gal/lb.

The percent of sugar (extract more correctly) left in the bag is just equal to 100% - Lauter Efficiency. The chart below shows how lauter efficiency varies with grain bill size and absorption rate for no-sparge (and single batch sparge) lautering. Since mash efficiency is defined as:

Mash Efficiency = Conversion Efficiency * Lauter Efficiency​

Increasing conversion efficiency by using a finer crush can make up for some of the lost lauter efficiency due to not sparging. However, you can't increase conversion over 100%, so if you are already close to that, the gain from a finer crush will be less than if you have low conversion efficiency.

How much is variable. Your efficiency might go up or not depending on many factors. How efficient was the previous process. If really good you might never match it with a full volume mash.

Correct.​

You will leave sugars in the grain if you don't sparge. How much is probably difficult to know or measure.

You will also leave sugars in the mash if you sparge, but the more sparging, the less sugar is left. It is relatively straight forward to calculate the sugar (extract) left in the grain bed after lautering if you do no-sparge or batch sparge (that's what I have done for the chart above.) But, damn near to impossible to calculate a priori fly sparging. Measuring lauter efficiency isn't too difficult for any type of sparging. Just divide your mash efficiency by your conversion efficiency. You get your conversion efficiency using the method here. ​

I am in the same boat. My Unibrau is on order. I will have to dial it in. I have done some BIAB, but never did much to figure efficiencies and such. I did 3 gallon batches in the winter when too cold for me outside.

Brew on

 

[nyer]

My clawhammer system arrived yesterday. Looking forward to breaking it in with a simple hefeweizen. Can someone give me an idea on where I should set my grain mill?

 

[Cato1507]

My clawhammer system arrived yesterday. Looking forward to breaking it in with a simple hefeweizen. Can someone give me an idea on where I should set my grain mill?

I set mine to credit card thickness and it produces a nice crush even on wheat. Many here favor a tighter gap for increased efficiency for their BIAB.

I think it takes a while to find your happy place and find a balance in crush, efficiency, and whether you favor sparge, squeeze, or just drain and no squeeze.

 

[tofuguy]

My clawhammer system arrived yesterday. Looking forward to breaking it in with a simple hefeweizen. Can someone give me an idea on where I should set my grain mill?

Here's a recipe I just created and brewed. It will test out your new system's capability to do step mashes. I set my grain mill to a width of a credit card.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I would go 220 but getting 220 power out there will be nearly impossible.

You can easily get 220 performance by using twin heating elements powered by two outlets on separate circuits. They can both be modulated by a single controller for precision, or you can simply run the second with an on/off switch and only use it when ramping up to a boil. My system drives both elements with an ez-boil DIY controller and I brew in my kitchen.

 

[Ninoid]

My BIAB no sparge is always about 75%.
I love BIAB simplicity in every way.

 

[NewJersey]

Congratulations on the upgrade to 1V eBIAB.
It takes some guys a LONG time to understand that it's the way to go.

 

[nyer]

Ok, stupid question that I cant find the answer to. When I input my recipe into brewers friend so that I can get my water adjustments (I use distilled water). Say I had 3 gallons of mash water and 4 gallons of sparge water on my old system, would I still use the same water adjustment amounts and use all 7 gallons during the biab process? I feel like I read one time that water adjustments basically go by the grain bill and the amount of water doesnt really matter. I don't have a ph meter so I rely on brewers friends numbers.

 

[Ninoid]

If you do not sparge for 5 gal of wort you add as much water as you think it will stay in the grain after bag squeeze and evaporate when boiled. I mash with 6 gal water and add in fermenter if needed up to 5 gal.

P.S. I do't care for pH.

 

[nyer]

You should care about ph.

 

[Ninoid]

You should care about ph.

The beer is good without adjusting the water. I plan to try adjusting the water in the future so I'll compare.

 

[kh54s10]

You should care about ph.

I think that depends on your water source. I must have had very good water that was good for a wide variety of styles because for 7 years I brewed without paying any attention to pH or water adjustments.

My beers were for the most part better than an average $10 =$15/six pack of craft beer.

I have since moved and the water here is not as good so I now have a R/O system and pH meter, now to figure all that crap out.

 

[Ninoid]

My mash pH is 6.2 but is good for me.
Right now, I don’t bother adjusting to water. I probably will one day.

 

[Bill Huelsman]

I just got the 10.5 gallon Anvil Foundry. You can use it on both 115-120, and 220 -240. The malt pipe can handle 16 lbs of grain according to the paperwork. Controls, how much power, and mash temps, boil easy to set. Used it once so far and love it!

 

[nyer]

I did a test run and got my boil off and equipment loss numbers, etc. I am officially breaking this baby in on Saturday with a simple hefeweizen. Can anyone tell me how high you usually heat your water before you mash in? On my old system I always went 10 degrees higher and it was perfect. I'm thinking it would be closer to 5 higher since the water amount is more than double. I really like hitting my mash number and holding it, I'm a bitanal like that.
Also, for what its worth I insulated the kettle with 2 layers of foil bubble insulation and it really helped alot in heating times. I'm glad I didn't but the 240 unit.

 

[tofuguy]

I did a test run and got my boil off and equipment loss numbers, etc. I am officially breaking this baby in on Saturday with a simple hefeweizen. Can anyone tell me how high you usually heat your water before you mash in? On my old system I always went 10 degrees higher and it was perfect. I'm thinking it would be closer to 5 higher since the water amount is more than double. I really like hitting my mash number and holding it, I'm a bitanal like that.
Also, for what its worth I insulated the kettle with 2 layers of foil bubble insulation and it really helped alot in heating times. I'm glad I didn't but the 240 unit.

I usually dough in with a Strike water about 3-5 degrees F above my mash temperature. And the start recirculating around 5 minutes later (let the grains settle after stirring.)

 

[nyer]

Well I made it through my first brew on the new system. It was a long day and I discovered a few issues that I could use help with. I set my mill with a credit card and ran the grain twice , it was like flour. I noticed when mashing (step mash) that there was a gross grey slimy material stuck on the bottom of the basket after I pulled the grain. I have never seen this before and then that same grey mess showed up in the foam at the beginning of the boil. I skimmed off what I could.
I only used .7 oz.. of hops in the hefeweizen but the hop tube mesh was a clogged mess at the end of the brew.
With the 120 system I had to keep the lid partially on to keep a boil going and boilovers were a constant battle.
The element after I was finished had a slimy cooked on mess that is extremely had to get off. I soaked it overnight in oxiclean and it's still very hard to remove.
I also think I used too much water and ended up with almost 6 gallons in the bucket.
Overall it was a success but I only got 65% efficiency and ended up with a 1044 beer instead of 1049.

 

[tofuguy]

The OG undershooting is on direct correlation with you higher than expected volume. Take notes of you volume next time and adjust slightly, or do a gravity reading at the end of the boil and if low OG and high volume, boil longer.

For a hefeweizen, I don't use a hop mesh since it's a very little amount of hops. Now if you have a plate chiller, don't listen to my advice, I have no experience there.

The grey slimy mess, I have no advice or experience there.

For the grain crush, I only run the grain through once at the credit card setting. I sit in the low 70s for brewhouse efficiency as long as I control my mash pH.