Sugar in Cider

[DaveDiamond]

I read a comment in a thread about Turbinado, which we call Raw Sugar here in Australia, containing nonfermentable components meaning it leaves behind some sweetness after fermentation. Surely it's not that simple to have a cider that's not completely dry? I have used Raw Sugar in some of my batches, and half white, half brown in others (ran out of White and Raw is what we use day to day) so I will find out for myself eventually how true this is, but does anyone agree with this? If it is true it would stand to reason that Brown Sugar might leave behind even more sweetness. I had already bought Brown Sugar to try this week, but I'm waiting for some S04 yeast to arrive, so I haven't made up any cider this week. It also makes me wonder about Golden Syrup and other syrups.
What have people tried personally and what were the results?

 

[mashdar]

Brown sugar will leave molasses behind (assuming you're brown sugar is the same as in USA). It can be used to add bitterness and color, but IMO not great for sweetness.

I suspect the non-fermentable portion of raw sugar is tiny.

Depending on yeast, you could try maltose/dextrins, etc if you want a naturally derived source of sweetness, but it will also add body.

 

[mac_1103]

It's 96-98% sucrose and the other 2-4% is unfermentable, but it isn't sugar.

 

[Maylar]

Fermented brown sugar tastes nasty (bitter).

 

[DaveDiamond]

Brown sugar will leave molasses behind (assuming you're brown sugar is the same as in USA). It can be used to add bitterness and color, but IMO not great for sweetness.

I suspect the non-fermentable portion of raw sugar is tiny.

Depending on yeast, you could try maltose/dextrins, etc if you want a naturally derived source of sweetness, but it will also add body.

From what I've read in the past about Cane Sugar (Ant Keeping!), a basic explanation is Raw Sugar, or Turbinado is refined to a certain point. Then it's refined again to produce White Sugar. Brown Sugar is produced by combining the White Sugar with a sort of concentrate of the by product of making White Sugar, in effect adding the 'impurities' removed back again but in a stronger form.

To everyone, thanks for the feedback!

 

[DaveDiamond]

Fermented brown sugar tastes nasty (bitter).

I thought it might. In most things it's either caramelising, or bitter, I was hoping for caramel tones!

 

[DaveDiamond]

Brown sugar will leave molasses behind (assuming you're brown sugar is the same as in USA). It can be used to add bitterness and color, but IMO not great for sweetness.

I suspect the non-fermentable portion of raw sugar is tiny.

Depending on yeast, you could try maltose/dextrins, etc if you want a naturally derived source of sweetness, but it will also add body.

Maltose looks interesting, and I think adding body might be a good thing for a supermarket juice based cider from what I've read about them being thin.
In fact, I'm just about to open a can of Mercury Cider, from Tasmania "The Apple Isle", Established in 1911, "The Original Cider Brand, Crafted For Over One Hundred Years", and I think it's a bit too thin and a bit too dry myself!

Edit - That was my impression when I bought it a couple of months ago, and I've had no other cider since, but I think it's been maturing a bit!

 

[Chalkyt]

Yep... a couple of observations from trying to go down this path.

I found out that Fuji juice has twice the sorbitol of most other apples and certainly I ended up with a touch of sweetness in fully fermented cider that had a lot of Fuji. However, this "sweetness" is like many other non-fermentable sweeteners in that it lacks "body" and isn't as fulfilling as real sugar.

S04 yeast is a "high nutrient demand" yeast and so can stall as high as SG1.010 due to nutrient depletion if the juice is a bit low in YAN to start with. The resulting sweetness is real sugar.

My most successful approach is to pasteurise at a SG above 1.000 (I use hot water bath for this similar to Pappers sticky way at the top)

Just thought I would throw this into the mix.

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

Raw Sugar, or Turbinado is refined to a certain point. Then it's refined again to produce White Sugar.

The "certain point" is 96% sucrose. "Refined again" is 99% sucrose.

Brown Sugar is produced by combining the White Sugar with a sort of concentrate of the by product of making White Sugar, in effect adding the 'impurities' removed back again but in a stronger form.

A lot of what is sold as "raw sugar" is actually made by adding molasses back to white sugar. At least in North America.

Maltose looks interesting

S-04 will ferment maltose. Any beer or ale yeast will. If you want to sweeten with maltose you'll need to use a wine or cider yeast (and make sure that it's not one the rare strains that can ferment maltose).

 

[Chalkyt]

Yep, I wasn't too impressed with Mercury even though it is readily available on the mainland. Despite Mercury's heritage and Tasmania's "Apple Isle" reputation, unfortunately it is produced by CUB which is now owned by Asahi so heaven only knows what the production process is.

The best ciders from down there IMO are Willie Smith's and Pagan from the Huon Valley and Spreyton close to the North Coast up near Devonport (all with their own orchards).

Cheers again!