Stone Xocoveza Mocha Stout

[phyllobeddo]

Here’s my latest recipe. It’s in the primary right now. Need to add the tinctures at some point.

2.5 gallon batch

4 lb Maris Otter 2
2.5 lb 2 row
Crystal 70/80 8 oz
Black Patent 8 oz
Pale Chocolate 4 oz
Flaked Oats 4 oz
Cara foam 4 oz
Coffee Malt 3 oz

Lactose - 6 oz (boil 10 minutes)
Cocoa - 4 oz (boil 10 minutes) I mixed them together and then just slowly added to the boil.

Challenger - 28 g 60 minutes - 33.9 IBU
EKG - 14 g 2 minutes - 1 IBU

WLP002 (starter)
Mash @ 150 for 75 minutes (Ended up mashing for 105 minutes)

OG 1.088

Tincture 1
One vanilla bean cut into pieces
One ounce whole coffee beans (I used what I had which was Dunkin Donuts whole beans and it took six weeks for it to smell worth using. I would definitely try a more premium bean next time)

Tincture 2
Two vanilla beans cut into pieces
35 grams Pasilla peppers cut into pieces
Enough vodka to cover

*edit - corrected grain list*

 

[thornton33]

Here's an attempt at a recipe using the ingredients that Stone lists.

2.5 gallon batch

Maris Otter 3lb
2 row 2lb
Crystal 60L 8 oz
Black Patent 8oz
Coffee Malt 5 oz
Chocolate Malt 4 oz or maybe the debittered Chocolate Malt?
Flaked Oats 4 oz
lactose - 6 oz boil 20 minutes
cocoa - 6 oz boil 10 minutes

Mash @ 150

1 oz Challenger 60 min.
.5 oz EKG 5 min.
39.7 IBU

S-04 yeast

Beersmith shows 1.082 OG. 8.7% ABV.

I haven't gotten to the ingredients for the secondary, but would probably go with a vodka tincture of a pasilla pepper, a vanilla bean, cinnamon, and nutmeg.

One cup or maybe less of a cold pressed coffee at bottling. I have some Yaucono beans to use.

Unsure if the percentages of the crystal and specialty malts are good or not.

Constructive comments and help are appreciated. I might brew this on Friday if I can get some coffee malt.

How did this turn out?

 

[thornton33]

*edit - corrected grain list*

And how did this turn out compared to the real thing?

 

[thornton33]

*edit - corrected grain list*

And how did this turn out compared to the real thing?

 

[phyllobeddo]

And how did this turn out compared to the real thing?

The sample tasted good. I've added both tinctures as of yesterday and plan ago bottle this weekend, probably Sunday. The previous recipe tasted really, really good and is worth brewing again.

 

[MaxSwift]

Ok so the tinctures are just to sanitize and draw out the flavor? But when you add it to the secondary you are adding the entire contents liquid and all?

Also your latest recipe (more stone) VS the one brewed first (original) we are still waiting on the results? Well which would you consider tasted more like the original. Personally I would like to do both LOL

Also the yeast Chris mentioned that it was more english than american thoughts?

 

[phyllobeddo]

Ok so the tinctures are just to sanitize and draw out the flavor? But when you add it to the secondary you are adding the entire contents liquid and all?

Also your latest recipe (more stone) VS the one brewed first (original) we are still waiting on the results? Well which would you consider tasted more like the original. Personally I would like to do both LOL

Also the yeast Chris mentioned that it was more english than american thoughts?

Tinctures? Yes and yes. I dump it all with no worries.
Results pending? Yes. Still waiting on the results of the More Stone. (I like that name....More Stone) However, it's current name is Shock A Geezer. I plan to bottle it Sunday. I will taste a sample tomorrow or possibly tonight. The coffee bean tincture has only been in there since Wednesday. Well, I guess it is a good time to taste it then. I do hope that More Stone tastes closer to Xocoveza. Original Stone tasted kind of similar, I would say. I really enjoyed the taste of the Pasilla peppers in it. First Stone had no cinnamon and no nutmeg. I don't care for nutmeg, so Shock A Geezer has none either. It does have cinnamon, though. Can't wait to find out what it's going to taste like in a couple of weeks after carbing up. I plan to bottle this batch and not keg it.

More English than American? My guess would be that Chris meant that there needed to be more flavor and esters from an English strain versus what you would have with a clean fermenting American yeast like 001 or 05.

Hope that helps. I also hope that Shock A Geezer tastes frickin awesome! HAHA.

I'll update progress, no worries.

Also, many thanks to the OP and all the people who have updated this thread.

 

[MaxSwift]

Thanks for the update and answers to my questions you are awesome good sir

 

[phyllobeddo]

The results are in and they are great so far. The sample smells like Xocoveza and the sample seems close. There's more pepper bite in my version and I wanted it that way. There's no nutmeg and that's by my design. Lots of chocolate and coffee smells and flavor. A hint of vanilla. Seems like there would be more vanilla, but not so far. I'll find out more in a couple of weeks after the bottles carbonate. My wife was impressed as was I.

I have a friend that should have a real Xocoveza left. I'll give him a bottle of this to compare with and find out what he thinks and post results.

Here's the recipe.

2.5 gallon batch

4 lb Maris Otter
2.5 lb Rahr 2 row
8 oz Crystal 70/80
8 oz Black Patent
4 oz Pale Chocolate
4 oz Flaked Oats
4 oz Cara foam
3 oz Coffee Malt

Lactose - 6 oz boil 20 minutes
Nestle Cocoa Powder - 4 oz boil 20 minutes

Challenger - 28 g 60 minutes - 55 IBU
EKG - 14 g 2 minutes - 1 IBU

Mashed @ 149 for 105 minutes (I got busy and went past 75 minutes)

WLP002 / Starter

Fermented @ 66 degrees for about 48 hours and then moved it to room temp for remaining 28 days. I meant to leave it @ 66 for a week or two but that didn’t happen and it didn’t hurt either.

“Secondary”

***I don’t “secondary,” I just throw it in the primary.

5 grams ground Ceylon cinnamon (added 7 days before bottling along with Tincture 2)

Tincture 1 (added to primary four days before bottling)
1 vanilla bean cut into pieces
1 oz Dunkin Donuts whole beans (no, I didn’t crush them)
Enough to vodka to cover
This one soaked for about six weeks before it smelled good enough to be used. I would use some higher end beans next time. The time after that I might roughly grind them.

Tincture 2 (added to primary seven days before bottling)
2 vanilla beans cut into pieces
35 grams Pasilla peppers cut into pieces
Enough vodka to cover
This one soaked for about a month.

OG 1.088
FG 1.025
8.27% ABV (not including a few ounces of vodka )

Bottled 22 12 oz and two 330ml bottles

It was a lot of work, but if the taste holds up then this one is a winner for sure.

 

[MaxSwift]

O
M
G

can not wait for the first bottle opening !!! thankfully I have two more beers to brew before this one. Scaling this up to 5 gallons atm

 

[phyllobeddo]

So in a nut shell, this beer turned out great! Great reviews and I like a lot as well. Huge chocolate nose and a dark chocolate taste. Great coffee flavor. I love the complexity of the taste of Pasilla peppers and I added enough to give the beer a nice pepper bite. Definitely more than Xocoveza. I was always disappointed in the lack of bite from Xoc so I bumped mine up. Hints of cinnamon round it out. Since the chocolate comes through so much, I will bump it down next time I brew this. Probably one to two ounces of cocoa powder instead of four. Alternately, I would use cacao nibs. No change in hops or yeast. They worked out well, also. I'm very happy with this one.

Edit: One of my friends rated Xocoveza 4.5 and this beer 4.25.

 

[h0psnobery]

Subbed

 

[actech]

sub'd

 

[Zrab11]

O
M
G

can not wait for the first bottle opening !!! thankfully I have two more beers to brew before this one. Scaling this up to 5 gallons atm

Were you able to scale this to 5gallons.. Would love to see that recipe!

 

[alexsurf7]

Brewed this recipe, I would add more coffee and only one Pasilla pepper. 2x peppers was too strong. Great recipe!

 

[actech]

So for 5 gallons just double??

 

[phyllobeddo]

So for 5 gallons just double??

Yeah, just double it. Here ya go…..

5 gallon batch

8 lb Maris Otter
5 lb Rahr 2 row
1 lb Crystal 70/80*
1 lb Black Patent
8 oz Pale Chocolate
8 oz Flaked Oats
8 oz Cara foam or Cara-Pils
6 oz Coffee Malt

Lactose - 12oz boil 20 minutes
Nestle Cocoa Powder - 8 oz boil 20 minutes*

Challenger - 2 oz 60 minutes
EKG - 1 oz 2 minutes

Mash @ 149 to 150 90 minutes

WLP002 / Starter

Secondary
10 g ground Ceylon Cinnamon
2-3 Vanilla beans
1 to 2 oz coffee bean tincture
70 gram Pasilla Pepper tincture

 

[jmitchell3]

Tinctures? Yes and yes. I dump it all with no worries.

Results pending? Yes. Still waiting on the results of the More Stone. (I like that name....More Stone) However, it's current name is Shock A Geezer. I plan to bottle it Sunday. I will taste a sample tomorrow or possibly tonight. The coffee bean tincture has only been in there since Wednesday. Well, I guess it is a good time to taste it then. I do hope that More Stone tastes closer to Xocoveza. Original Stone tasted kind of similar, I would say. I really enjoyed the taste of the Pasilla peppers in it. First Stone had no cinnamon and no nutmeg. I don't care for nutmeg, so Shock A Geezer has none either. It does have cinnamon, though. Can't wait to find out what it's going to taste like in a couple of weeks after carbing up. I plan to bottle this batch and not keg it.



More English than American? My guess would be that Chris meant that there needed to be more flavor and esters from an English strain versus what you would have with a clean fermenting American yeast like 001 or 05.



Hope that helps. I also hope that Shock A Geezer tastes frickin awesome! HAHA.



I'll update progress, no worries.



Also, many thanks to the OP and all the people who have updated this thread.

Funny, I read it as suggesting folks use dry English 005....my understanding is that is stones house yeast so it makes sense. I think people were using 001, but 002 wouldn't dry it out enough....

 

[GParkins]

I brewed a batch. I think I hit the flavor spot on, but it's nowhere "big" enough. Without oxygenating, 8+ ABV means I'm just pissing in the wind.

To make a tincture, I put the cocoa nibs, 3 vanilla beans, 2 dried pasilla peppers, 2 cinnamon sticks, and nutmeg into a quart mason jar and filled it with vodka. I covered it with a Ball canning lid and it sat unrefrigerated for close to three months. When I bottled, I ran the tincture through a chinois to filter the solids, and added the liquid to the bottling bucket after I added the priming sugar and siphoned out the carboy. I reserved one bottle of Xoco, and cracked it open as I added the tincture to compare flavors. I lowered the amount of nutmeg due to personal preference. I also forgot to add the ground coffee.

I did build a one-quart starter, using both Safale packets. It went into a DME wort that I put on a stir plate. Nothing wrong with the starter, just not enough o2 in the wort when I pitched. The attached screenshot gets confusing with the tincture ingredients. There is 1 Whirlfloc tablet, 2 dried peppers, 3 vanilla beans, and 2 cinnamon sticks.

I will definitely make this again, but not until i can properly oxygenate. I would probably add another pepper or two to the tincture, and also add a handful of coffee beans. I bottled it in early August, and probably won't refrigerate it until family shows up in late November.

 

[phyllobeddo]

Funny, I read it as suggesting folks use dry English 005....my understanding is that is stones house yeast so it makes sense. I think people were using 001, but 002 wouldn't dry it out enough....

That's a definite possibility. That was just my take on what I had read at that moment in time.

On a side note, having used cacao nibs on other batches, I would substitute cacao nibs for cocoa powder on the next batch of this one. And 005 would be worth a shot as well.

So many recipes and so many recipe tweaks......so little time.

 

[jmitchell3]

That's a definite possibility. That was just my take on what I had read at that moment in time.

On a side note, having used cacao nibs on other batches, I would substitute cacao nibs for cocoa powder on the next batch of this one. And 005 would be worth a shot as well.

So many recipes and so many recipe tweaks......so little time.

Ha im an idiot...WLP-007 not 005...

Cool, good to know about the nibs vs. powder!

 

[phyllobeddo]

So Xocoveza 2016 is on the shelves as of last week and It tastes great as usual. I had already planned to brew another clone of it this weekend. I'll try cacao nibs in place of cocoa powder this time and tweak the recipe with ingredients on hand. I'll post that one on here at some point.

 

[actech]

My usual place getting supplies doesnt have challenger. I'm gonna look at the local liquor store that carries homebrew supplies. If not I saw northern brewer listed as a substitute. What do you think? I have that. Just hate to pay the flat rate shipping from anywhere else for 1 hop. And no one else guarantees liquid yeast viability to my location but ritebrew.

 

[BarrelAgedForrest]

so ive been slow to be replying anymore, i sapped you all for knowledge and went on my way... lol totally playing. Been to broke to brew we have a baby on the way. Regardless i did my first (5th brew) all grain batch a couple months ago and sadly blew the ke at NCHF (I suppose that should be taken as a compliment! But it left me beerless in the kegerator!) I have been debating what to brew next as i built a big burly wee heavy winter warmer, but sitting here sipping on the first xocoveza i have ever actually found in person i think im going to opt with this!!! How long did you let it sit totally before bottle or keg? A month???

 

[phyllobeddo]

so ive been slow to be replying anymore, i sapped you all for knowledge and went on my way... lol totally playing. Been to broke to brew we have a baby on the way. Regardless i did my first (5th brew) all grain batch a couple months ago and sadly blew the ke at NCHF (I suppose that should be taken as a compliment! But it left me beerless in the kegerator!) I have been debating what to brew next as i built a big burly wee heavy winter warmer, but sitting here sipping on the first xocoveza i have ever actually found in person i think im going to opt with this!!! How long did you let it sit totally before bottle or keg? A month???

Yes. One month for mine.

 

[phyllobeddo]

I brewed the following using ingredients on hand. I kegged it last week after a month in the primary.

2.5 gallon batch

6 lb Maris Otter 2 row
8 oz Crystal 120
4 oz Black Patent
4 oz Roasted Barley
4 oz Pale Chocolate
4 oz Flaked Oats
3 oz Cara-Pils
3 oz Coffee Malt

55.6 IBU w/70 minute boil
15 g Challenger 60 min
9.2 g Magnum 60 min
12.2 g Fuggles 2 min

Added at kegging:
5 oz lactose and 40 grams corn sugar microwaved in 8 oz water for about six minutes
1/2 oz coffee extract from an espresso pod
1 oz vanilla extract
1/2 oz Pasilla pepper extract from tincture
30 g Pasilla peppers from tincture
2.5 oz toasted cacao nib tincture
5 g ground Ceylon cinnamon

I'll remove the cacao nibs and peppers in a week or two. I haven't decided on how long to leave them in there.

 

[BarrelAgedForrest]

So is Rahr 2 row the same as regular American 2 row? My lhbs doesn't have Rahr 2 row to my knowledge.

 

[babaganuj]

So is Rahr 2 row the same as regular American 2 row? My lhbs doesn't have Rahr 2 row to my knowledge.

Rahr is the Malting company. You can substitute any 2 row (even Maris Otter or pilsner) as your base malt and you'll be fine. The specialty malts and non-fermentables are what you'll taste.

 

[BarrelAgedForrest]

Rahr is the Malting company. You can substitute any 2 row (even Maris Otter or pilsner) as your base malt and you'll be fine. The specialty malts and non-fermentables are what you'll taste.

Nice, thank you!

 

[BarrelAgedForrest]

Yeah, just double it. Here ya go…..

5 gallon batch

8 lb Maris Otter
5 lb Rahr 2 row
1 lb Crystal 70/80*
1 lb Black Patent
8 oz Pale Chocolate
8 oz Flaked Oats
8 oz Cara foam or Cara-Pils
6 oz Coffee Malt

Lactose - 12oz boil 20 minutes
Nestle Cocoa Powder - 8 oz boil 20 minutes*

Challenger - 2 oz 60 minutes
EKG - 1 oz 2 minutes

Mash @ 149 to 150 90 minutes

WLP002 / Starter

Secondary
10 g ground Ceylon Cinnamon
2-3 Vanilla beans
1 to 2 oz coffee bean tincture
70 gram Pasilla Pepper tincture

So you used WLP002, I tend to use dry yeasts (budget wise they work for me) what dry yeast would you have opted for? A clean neutral strain like safale05 or a more fruity British strain like 04? Thoughts? Gonna buy everything later.