Okay so I am so confused. I guess I should start with my experience level. About 14 years ago my wife bought me a beer making kit as a gift. I made a few batches of the good old all extract in a can kits. This didnt last long as I was a bud light guy and the wife and I didnt like the outcome at all. Fast forward to a few months ago and a refined love of craft beer, I decided to give it another go. I run down to the local homebrew supply store and pick up a kit that has nearly everything I would need. I also start looking up recipes on the internet because I remember how much I disliked the all extract kits. I make an extract but decided to try with the hops during the boil. The Cincinnati Pale Ale came out wonderful. It had great flavor and a decent ABV. So I go on to my next batch where I tried a Belgian Blond. On this brew I tried a partial mash where I thought I knew what I was doing but I think I was wrong. I put all the grains in a mesh bag and soaked them in a igloo in 150 deg water for 60 mins. My OG on this was low and when it came time to bottle it didnt taste all that great and my ABV was around 4% I expected it to be much higher. I will let it set awhile longer before trying it again. It has only been a week in the bottle. Last Saturday for National Home Brew Day I again made an English Ale with Crystal and Chocolate hopefully it comes out the OG was pretty close to what the recipe had. I am just so confused with the Mash/Steep/Sparge stuff. I basically just took an igloo from my garage cleaned it up real well and sanitized put all the grains in a nylon mesh bag and soaked it for 60 mins. Is this correct? Am I supposed to Mash some grains and Steep others? If so is there a cheat sheet for this? What is brewhouse efficiency? Does mashing/steeping affect brewhouse efficiency? I want to get this right otherwise Ill be drinking this stuff by myself ha ha. I make wine and have gotten fairly good sat it just want to make sure I am understanding the process. Thanks for any help you can manage.
Steeping and Mashing and Sparging Im so Confused
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It's been a very long time since I'm BIAB'd, but I'm pretty sure steeping = mashing, in practicality. You're right in that mashing is soaking grains at a controlled temperature (~147-155 off the top of my head) for a fixed amount of time.
60 min @ 150 should be spot on. I suspect that, with a lot of newer BIABers, your bag was restricting your grain so it wasn't getting an even distribution of liquid on it (like in the center). This could account for your lower gravity.
Sparging is after your mash (or steep). You run fresh water over the grain at a higher temperature (168?) to stop enzyme production and "rinse" the grain of sugars you may have missed. There are a number of different strategies, but those are mostly for all grain. An event trickle over your bag should work. This should be a pre-defined amount of water. There's also some really cool history to sparging; back in the day the first runnings were the big beers, the second runnings were your average, and the third and final runnings were the sessions.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble. I hope I cleared some up. I might be wrong with the enzymes thing, it's been a while since I thought about why we use hotter water. I think it's starch conversion. Anyone else, please correct me if needed.
"Brewhouse efficiency" is a fancy term for your start-to-finish efficiency, including boil off, trub loss, spills, etc. I think I'm ~72% usually.
60 min @ 150 should be spot on. I suspect that, with a lot of newer BIABers, your bag was restricting your grain so it wasn't getting an even distribution of liquid on it (like in the center). This could account for your lower gravity.
Sparging is after your mash (or steep). You run fresh water over the grain at a higher temperature (168?) to stop enzyme production and "rinse" the grain of sugars you may have missed. There are a number of different strategies, but those are mostly for all grain. An event trickle over your bag should work. This should be a pre-defined amount of water. There's also some really cool history to sparging; back in the day the first runnings were the big beers, the second runnings were your average, and the third and final runnings were the sessions.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble. I hope I cleared some up. I might be wrong with the enzymes thing, it's been a while since I thought about why we use hotter water. I think it's starch conversion. Anyone else, please correct me if needed.
"Brewhouse efficiency" is a fancy term for your start-to-finish efficiency, including boil off, trub loss, spills, etc. I think I'm ~72% usually.
steeping and mashing are very similar. steeping just means your using specialty grains and steeping the flavors out of it, mashing means there is actually sugar conversion and is done with base malts (pale, pilsner, munich ect.) when you do a partial mash you use both base and special malts, in which case they just all go in the mash. then just follow the instructions for temp and time and you will be fine. the sparge is just rinsing all the sugars out of the grains that you converted. hope that helps answer your question.
douglasbarbin
Well-Known Member
Kind of a strange question, but were the grains milled before you mashed/steeped them?
To answer your question... Yes I am fortunate to have a great homebrew supply store that has a huge grain room and was instructed by a very lovely employee on the use and etiquette. Question how do I know which grains need to be milled and which don't?
Thanks guys great information I think I was doing the sparge incorrectly. I basically just took a strainer and put my grain bag over my brew pot and pored the mash over the grain. The fresh water makes a lot of sense I think I may be able to get my OG closer to the recipe's.
One more question do any of you use beersmith? Thinking of purchasing it.
douglasbarbin
Well-Known Member
Pretty much all of the grains need to be milled, unless they are "flaked" or "torrified" (and it won't hurt anything to mill them anyways...just use some rice hulls to prevent a stuck sparge).
I use BeerSmith (as do lots of folks on here) and it is well worth the price, IMO.
I use BeerSmith (as do lots of folks on here) and it is well worth the price, IMO.
Thanks so much for the help guys. I think I will move to all grain very soon. Probably will purchase beersmith this evening and actually make a real mash tun this weekend.
MarshmallowBlue
Well-Known Member
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/all-grain-brewing-simplified-part1-process.html
Here's a nice article on just that thing!
Shameless self promotion aside.
Here's a nice article on just that thing!
Shameless self promotion aside.
Wow great information... Thanks...
christyle
Well-Known Member
When you say your partial mash came out low, does your operation look like this:
Hold grains at around 150 or so for 45 minutes to an hour, then put that water in your boil pot. Replace the first runnings (sweet wort that came from the initial soak/mash) with new, fresh, hot water closer to 170-180 and dunk the grains in it, making sure to wet all of it and let sit for 5-15 minutes, then dunk a few times and let it drain out. Once the grain has drained, you add this sweet wort to the boil kettle as well. The amount of water for each operation is usually dictated by the recipe, but once you combine them, you will probably need to top off to get to your total pre-boil volume (around 7.5 gallons for me, for a 5 gallon batch I think). Then you will start your boil and add extract to get the total gravity up to where it needs to be. Then boil for 45-90 minutes, adding hops or other additives at the times given by the recipe.
The mash is to heat up the grains enough to activate the enzymes in the grains, and get them to work breaking the starches down into sugars. The process usually takes around an hour for full starch to sugar conversion. Then you drain the mash water, pulling most of these sugars out. For the sparge, as has been said above, the point is really to heat up the mash bed to make the sugar more soluble and easier to "wash" out of the grains. Think honey mixed into cold water vs in hot water. When you re-use your mash liquid, the sweet wort, you already have a solution with sugars in it, so it does not strip the remaining sugars out as easily, hence the use of new, fresh, hot water. For your process, think of it as a hotter, shorter mash process, where you submerge the grains in the hot water, not just pour the water over it.
Most everything else has been covered by those above, but I think all-grain may be an easier process than a partial mash really.
Hold grains at around 150 or so for 45 minutes to an hour, then put that water in your boil pot. Replace the first runnings (sweet wort that came from the initial soak/mash) with new, fresh, hot water closer to 170-180 and dunk the grains in it, making sure to wet all of it and let sit for 5-15 minutes, then dunk a few times and let it drain out. Once the grain has drained, you add this sweet wort to the boil kettle as well. The amount of water for each operation is usually dictated by the recipe, but once you combine them, you will probably need to top off to get to your total pre-boil volume (around 7.5 gallons for me, for a 5 gallon batch I think). Then you will start your boil and add extract to get the total gravity up to where it needs to be. Then boil for 45-90 minutes, adding hops or other additives at the times given by the recipe.
The mash is to heat up the grains enough to activate the enzymes in the grains, and get them to work breaking the starches down into sugars. The process usually takes around an hour for full starch to sugar conversion. Then you drain the mash water, pulling most of these sugars out. For the sparge, as has been said above, the point is really to heat up the mash bed to make the sugar more soluble and easier to "wash" out of the grains. Think honey mixed into cold water vs in hot water. When you re-use your mash liquid, the sweet wort, you already have a solution with sugars in it, so it does not strip the remaining sugars out as easily, hence the use of new, fresh, hot water. For your process, think of it as a hotter, shorter mash process, where you submerge the grains in the hot water, not just pour the water over it.
Most everything else has been covered by those above, but I think all-grain may be an easier process than a partial mash really.
Ah looks like I missed an important step the Sparge or wash... I never put fresh hot water back onto the grains...Thanks
Happywanderer
Well-Known Member
Beersmith is a favorite among many here and I've tried it.
For my money - brewersfriend is great! $10/year ... all on-line. Very easy user interface (beersmith can be confusing).
If you are making the jump to all-grain (which is awesome and you'll love it), read up as much as possible and ask any questions about stuff that seems unclear before your first brew day. Lots of helpful folks here. Jump into the all-grain forum.
If you haven't checked out some literature on all-grain brewing -
howtobrew.com
dennybrew.com
If you've not built your all-grain rig yet - I can give you a cheap and easy setup that is perfect for all-grain.
Total cost is >$100 if you've already got a 10-gal pot and an outdoor burner/propane tank.
For my money - brewersfriend is great! $10/year ... all on-line. Very easy user interface (beersmith can be confusing).
If you are making the jump to all-grain (which is awesome and you'll love it), read up as much as possible and ask any questions about stuff that seems unclear before your first brew day. Lots of helpful folks here. Jump into the all-grain forum.
If you haven't checked out some literature on all-grain brewing -
howtobrew.com
dennybrew.com
If you've not built your all-grain rig yet - I can give you a cheap and easy setup that is perfect for all-grain.
Total cost is >$100 if you've already got a 10-gal pot and an outdoor burner/propane tank.
Beersmith can be intimidating and confusing, but worth it in the end.
I'd recommend getting a copy of Speed Brewing. The book is geared towards smaller batch Brew In a Bag brewing, and simplifies the brewing process. I'd focus on BIAB brewing anyhow. Simplifies the process, less equipment needed, etc. no sparging, no steeping.
I'd recommend getting a copy of Speed Brewing. The book is geared towards smaller batch Brew In a Bag brewing, and simplifies the brewing process. I'd focus on BIAB brewing anyhow. Simplifies the process, less equipment needed, etc. no sparging, no steeping.
OK, allow me to clarify some things here. Steeping is just that. You can steep grains that are already converted to soak the sugars out of them. Specialty grains, caramel/crystal grains, carapils, roasted & the like can all be steeped. Others, like 2-row, 6-row, pilsner, flaked & the like must be mashed.
The difference is this-
Steeping- Steep the grains at about 160F in a couple gallons of water that you would, say, do a partial boil in for about 30 minutes to soak the sugars out as wort. With BIAB, I use a nylon 5 gallon bag to fit my kettle with the open end stretched over the lip of the kettle. This allows stirring of the crushed grains to get out any dough balls & evenly wet them. I also use two floating thermometers- one in the mash, & the other in a 2nd kettle of sparge water. If your kettle can hold 3 1/2 gallons of wort, & you steep in 2 gallons, then dunk (read batch) sparge in a second kettle with 1 1/2 gallons @ 168F for 10 minutes. I also stir the grains when sparging to evenly wet them with the hotter water to soak more sugars out. Add sparge wort to main wort in boil kettle for the 1 hour boil.
Mash/partial mash- This is the method you need to use when employing base malts with other malts for partial mash (PM) beers. The only difference between All Grain (AG) mashing & partial mash (PM) is the sheer amount of grains used. PM uses some extract at the end of the boil to get the OG (Original Gravity) listed in the recipe. You also have to use 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 quarts of water to each pound of grains being mashed. This is typically done for 1 hour to 90 minutes, depending on how well modified the grains are. Then I usually sparge in about 1 1/2 gallons or so of water. When added to the main wort, this gets me to my boil volume. I still partial boil on a newer induction stovetop. 3,600W to be exact. Here again, I use the dunk (Read batch) sparge in the smaller amount of water with the grain bag stretched over the lip of the kettle to stir the grains again for 10 minutes @ 168F. Drain & add to main wort for the boil.
The difference is this-
Steeping- Steep the grains at about 160F in a couple gallons of water that you would, say, do a partial boil in for about 30 minutes to soak the sugars out as wort. With BIAB, I use a nylon 5 gallon bag to fit my kettle with the open end stretched over the lip of the kettle. This allows stirring of the crushed grains to get out any dough balls & evenly wet them. I also use two floating thermometers- one in the mash, & the other in a 2nd kettle of sparge water. If your kettle can hold 3 1/2 gallons of wort, & you steep in 2 gallons, then dunk (read batch) sparge in a second kettle with 1 1/2 gallons @ 168F for 10 minutes. I also stir the grains when sparging to evenly wet them with the hotter water to soak more sugars out. Add sparge wort to main wort in boil kettle for the 1 hour boil.
Mash/partial mash- This is the method you need to use when employing base malts with other malts for partial mash (PM) beers. The only difference between All Grain (AG) mashing & partial mash (PM) is the sheer amount of grains used. PM uses some extract at the end of the boil to get the OG (Original Gravity) listed in the recipe. You also have to use 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 quarts of water to each pound of grains being mashed. This is typically done for 1 hour to 90 minutes, depending on how well modified the grains are. Then I usually sparge in about 1 1/2 gallons or so of water. When added to the main wort, this gets me to my boil volume. I still partial boil on a newer induction stovetop. 3,600W to be exact. Here again, I use the dunk (Read batch) sparge in the smaller amount of water with the grain bag stretched over the lip of the kettle to stir the grains again for 10 minutes @ 168F. Drain & add to main wort for the boil.
Quadrupled
Well-Known Member
Year...old...thread...
