StarSan (ChemSan) just mixed yet PH is bad

[IEpicDestiny]

Hi,

I bought a 5 litre bottle of water to mix my StarSan(ChemSan) in 10ml of starsan to 5 litres of water. That lasted 3 batches in the space of around a year or 2.

I checked the PH level today and it was at 4 so I emptied it out (apparently it needs to be under 3.5 to be effective)

I refilled the bottle of water with my tap water (which has a PH level of around 8, it jumps around between 7 - 9)

but for some reason when I checked the PH after diluting with fresh starsan the PH level was around a 6 or 7. Why?? (I did shake the bottle till there was foam before reading)

 

[PCABrewing]

Hi,

I bought a 5 litre bottle of water to mix my StarSan(ChemSan) in 10ml of starsan to 5 litres of water. That lasted 3 batches in the space of around a year or 2.

I checked the PH level today and it was at 4 so I emptied it out (apparently it needs to be under 3.5 to be effective)

I refilled the bottle of water with my tap water (which has a PH level of around 8, it jumps around between 7 - 9)

but for some reason when I checked the PH after diluting with fresh starsan the PH level was around a 6 or 7. Why?? (I did shake the bottle till there was foam before reading)

Is your meter calibrated recently?

 

[IslandLizard]

Your tap water probably has high alkalinity.

The pH of water means very little, it's the mineral content, especially alkalinity, that provides buffering, resisting change when adding acids such as Starsan, which contains a large % of phosphoric acid.

So, buy a few jugs of distilled water ($0.60 - $1.00 a gallon) or RO (Reverse Osmosis) water ($0.30 - $0.50 a gallon). Prices are here in the U.S. (Walmart, etc.). RO water tends to be cheaper than distilled, especially when tapping from an RO machine into your own jugs.

There's usually no need to make large volumes of Starsan. 1-4 liters is plenty for most applications. Fill a spray bottle for localized sanitation and use a small dedicated wash cloth to mop onto larger surfaces (such as inside walls of buckets, lids, etc.). However, I do like submerging my yeast starter flasks and yeast (mason) storage jars.

The pH of a fresh Starsan working solution should be below 3.0 when mixed. I've measured a pH of 2.7 using 1 fl.oz (30ml) per 5 US gallons of my very soft (tap) water. The equivalent would be (close to) 8 ml in 5 liters.

You'd need a decently precise enough measuring vial or graduate to measure 8 ml accurately enough. Using a tad more shouldn't harm anything, but aim at the using the correct amount.

Long term storage:
I've successfully stored working solutions of Starsan for several weeks, with no real degradation, except for some white precipitate forming over longer times (>3 weeks). So something is settling out! pH remained under 3.0.

After a few months of storage it gets very clear but there is a white precipitate on the bottom. I've decanted the clear Starsan solution off the precipitate, and used to prepurge kegs, etc. It still foams like usual, but something may be missing...

 

[IEpicDestiny]

Is your meter calibrated recently?

How do I calibrate it?

 

[IslandLizard]

How do I calibrate it?

Calibration solutions. They can easily exceed the price of your meter...
Many use (cheaper) "powder pillows" (sachets) you dissolve in a certain amount of distilled water. You only need 7.00 and 4.00 or whatever they sell, such as 7.00 and 4.01 being most common.

Mind, most cheaper ($10-20) pH meters are not all that accurate, stability and repeatability being poor. They definitely need to be (re-)calibrated right before taking a measurement.

 

[hotbeer]

Idophor is more forgiving on a wider range of ph or alkalinity. It also is said to be effective for a broader range of microbial stuff.

At least that's what I've been led to believe.

 

[IslandLizard]

Idophor is more forgiving on a wider range of ph or alkalinity. It also is said to be effective for a broader range of microbial stuff.

At least that's what I've been led to believe.

Indeed, Iodophor is a better microbial killer covering a much wider general spectrum while it also kills wild yeasts.
But beware, a working solution won't last past one day.

It also stains plastics, but that's only a cosmetic issue.

 

[marc1]

How do I calibrate it?

The directions should tell you. What meter do you have?

 

[IEpicDestiny]

The directions should tell you. What meter do you have?

I've lost the box. Just some plain cheap yellow one. There is a screw I would have to turn to calibrate it I am guessing, but I will need to buy those stupid expensive sachets. I've bought some PH strips to try and get a better reading. Since I have only just mixed my starsan in the water. Surely its good to go? I'd like to start my next batch tonight.

 

[marc1]

I've lost the box. Just some plain cheap yellow one. There is a screw I would have to turn to calibrate it I am guessing, but I will need to buy those stupid expensive sachets. I've bought some PH strips to try and get a better reading. Since I have only just mixed my starsan in the water. Surely its good to go? I'd like to start my next batch tonight.

Honestly, a cheap meter that you can't calibrate isn't worth using. The results are not trustworthy. Getting no reading is better than getting a bad reading, because you might assign some value to a bad reading, when it has none.

So, absent a pH reading, I would think that your fresh StarSan is fine.

 

[IslandLizard]

So, absent a pH reading, I would think that your fresh StarSan is fine.

I second that. ^

Even if your ChemSan turns a bit cloudy, due to calcium hardness in your tap water, it should still work as promised.
But a working solution that's 2 years old, may not.

 

[ShadowSlayer007]

Test with distilled white vinegar. Ph should be around 2.5.

 

[rallenhall]

I've had water from Walmart RO machines turn milk-white when StarSan was added. Have never had that happen with the kiosks at water companies such as Culligan.

 

[KyBeer]

I have done a quick check of my PH meter with Distilled water, 7.0, and distilled white vinegar, 2.45. I keep a pint jar of each with my water salts. After my PH meter was calibrated I tested each jar and recorded the readings on the jar. When ever I feel the PH reading is in question I do a quick check.
Question: Is there any longevity difference of a starsan solutition made with DI or tap water?

 

[IEpicDestiny]

I have done a quick check of my PH meter with Distilled water, 7.0, and distilled white vinegar, 2.45. I keep a pint jar of each with my water salts. After my PH meter was calibrated I tested each jar and recorded the readings on the jar. When ever I feel the PH reading is in question I do a quick check.
Question: Is there any longevity difference of a starsan solutition made with DI or tap water?

Would I ever have to throw out the distilled water or distilled white vinegar? Or does it pretty much last forever?

Just bought some distilled white vinegar, hope this works

 

[KyBeer]

Only had the DI and vinegar in the jars a bit over a year. No change so far. don't know how long it will last. If there is a change I will recal the meter and replace the solutions. I only use the solutions as a quick test, not as a means of calibration.

 

[IEpicDestiny]

Only had the DI and vinegar in the jars a bit over a year. No change so far. don't know how long it will last. If there is a change I will recal the meter and replace the solutions. I only use the solutions as a quick test, not as a means of calibration.

Is it important to check distilled water aswell as the vinegar? Or is just checking vinegar good enough?

 

[IslandLizard]

I've had water from Walmart RO machines turn milk-white when StarSan was added.

That's a bad sign, yes. Maybe the reject line was connected to the spigot...

You should check the service report on the RO machine before filling your jugs. But the critical test is bringing your TDS meter and take a reading. RO water should be near 0 ppm. But 10-20 ppm could be acceptable in many cases.

 

[KyBeer]

Two points of reference provides amplitude and slope of calibration. With only one you are just checking amplitude. How picky do you want to be? I'm a retired engineer that worked in a fine detailed field. I get cough up in details way too many times. My old PH meter only had one point for calibration. I was mainly interested in a good readings betweem 5.0 and 5.7.

 

[Falstaff]

I use test strips. They are cheap and you don't have to worry about calibration.

 

[KyBeer]

Use what you trust. I use test strips in my pool, kambucha and when brewing, but I like the read outs I get with a digital meter.

 

[IEpicDestiny]

So I bought the distilled white vinegar and its lowest PH was 2.5 (so my ph meter must be working at least somewhat).

Checked my StarSan in the water (looks all cloudy now) and the PH was at around 6. What should I do from here? Add more StarSan to the water? Is that it? Or is my tap water just bad and I need to get distilled water?

Im just surprised the StarSan would not still work with my high PH if I ONLY just mixed it in and never used it.

I just want to start my next batch already -_-

 

[IEpicDestiny]

So I bought the distilled white vinegar and its lowest PH was 2.5 (so my ph meter must be working at least somewhat).

Checked my StarSan in the water (looks all cloudy now) and the PH was at around 6. What should I do from here? Add more StarSan to the water? Is that it? Or is my tap water just bad and I need to get distilled water?

Im just surprised the StarSan would not still work with my high PH if I ONLY just mixed it in and never used it.

I just want to start my next batch already -_-

Also if my tap water is bad with StarSan then is it also bad to use for my beer?

 

[marc1]

Is this what you are using:
https://chemsafeint.com/files/eds/17255.pdf
I think the problem is you are saying it is the same as StarSan, and it is not.

ChemSan is a quarternary ammonium sanitizer, StarSan is acid based. They are completely different products with completely different mechanisms of action. The pH test is only applicable to StarSan.

Page 16 of the linked PDF has the directions for beer fermentation and storage tank sanitizing.