So with the heads rotated that way the blichmann built in bleed valves don't work correctly?
Spike Complete System
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So with the heads rotated that way the blichmann built in bleed valves don't work correctly?
I kept looking at the pic and then thinking about you saying the inlet is rotated to the top, and not seeing it. Clearly, the inlet is down, not up....
....until I realized the table was upside down in the photo.
Attaching a few more pictures for clarity. Some background might help as well.
I purchased my Spike System without the pumps, panel, temp sensors, and power cords over a year ago thinking I would build my own panel (and get my 50 AMP power ran to the brew area). I finally got around to the power a few months ago and also realized I had no time to build my own panel as I had not brewed for an entire year. I ended up buying one of the ebrewsupply touch screen panels and very happy with it so far after a few brews. As far as the valves, all these came with the system so I setup the pumps per the Spike design. I did think about using the built in bleeders on the Blichmann pumps but really liked the ease of the valves especially if I had to have a glove on if I was bleeding hot water or wort.
![IMG_0231[1].JPG](https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/data/attach/567/567415-IMG-0231-1-.JPG "IMG_0231[1].JPG")
![IMG_0232[1].JPG](https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/data/attach/567/567416-IMG-0232-1-.JPG "IMG_0232[1].JPG")
I purchased my Spike System without the pumps, panel, temp sensors, and power cords over a year ago thinking I would build my own panel (and get my 50 AMP power ran to the brew area). I finally got around to the power a few months ago and also realized I had no time to build my own panel as I had not brewed for an entire year. I ended up buying one of the ebrewsupply touch screen panels and very happy with it so far after a few brews. As far as the valves, all these came with the system so I setup the pumps per the Spike design. I did think about using the built in bleeders on the Blichmann pumps but really liked the ease of the valves especially if I had to have a glove on if I was bleeding hot water or wort.
I really like the way that's set up; I think I might borrow the idea for my own system, though I have a wooden bench on which all my stuff sits, not a stainless table.
I have a Riptide; I knew what you were doing setting them up the way you did. I've used the bleeders but you've noted the big issue with them--they squirt water or wort when used, which is messy.
I see one other thing I didn't notice in the earlier pics; you have a "T" pipe fitting between the pump and the ball valve. Is that for releasing air or what? Certainly it would be easier to catch the squirts that way, but what do you seal it up with when running through the ball valve? And how do you clean it, just connect a hose there and recirculate?
You have inspired me to look into setting mine up similarly, though the "T" fitting thing is throwing me a bit.
I have used the Riptide as well for powering the cleaning solution run through my CIP ball on the Spike fermenter i have. I set the Riptide on the bottom shelf under the dump valve, connect to that dump valve with a fitting, and when I open the dump valve the system primes itself, primarily because the pump is at the bottom. I'm probably going to set up to use one of the spare Mark II pumps I have for that purpose.
The T fitting with quick disconnect facing us is where he connects his hoses and the hose barbs facing the ground are where the air bleeds out, quickly followed by water/wort into a nice easy catch bucket. I do the same thing on my chugger already, but I was hoping to use the Riptide as-is. I may reconsider after brewing with it once or twice.
Hmmm.....so he's bleeding the air through the ball valve? And then controlling flow using the built-in valve on the Riptide? I'm almost ready to do this except...if you're using the pump to transfer wort, how do you sanitize that bleed ball-valve?
I like the general idea; perhaps if a fitting (QD, camlock, whatever one uses) was put on the ball valve instead of the barb, it could be hooked up and the flushing/washing carried through there.....
Yep that's the idea
It'll be sanitized instantly when you flush boiling wort through it when you do your air bleed. You could definitely route the runoff anywhere if you hook a hose up to that, as long as it's short enough to not cause an issue for the air purge
Just completed my first brew on the new Spike system.
Everything went well and cleaning was much easier than expected thanks to a wet/dry vacuum
I did end up missing my OG by 8 points though. I'm having trouble getting BeerSmith to line up with my records, and I'm starting to like the variables he chooses to manipulate less and less.
I expected a preboil gravity of 1.041 and my gravity at the end of the mash was 1.041 before the sparge so I knew it was low, but BeerSmith doesn't have anywhere to view what this number should be.
I sparged a little too quickly to hit my preboil volume and ended up with 1.035 into the boil kettle. Then 1.042 OG.
So I can either manipulate my efficiency to make up for the difference, or I can try to fiddle with my volumes (which were high).
Overall I love the system. 4.5 hour total brew day and cleanup, which is on par with my old BIAB system.
Next time I might do a batch sparge just so I don't have to deal with matching the flow rates of the two pumps, or I might do a full volume mash with no sparge and see how that works out.
Everything went well and cleaning was much easier than expected thanks to a wet/dry vacuum
I did end up missing my OG by 8 points though. I'm having trouble getting BeerSmith to line up with my records, and I'm starting to like the variables he chooses to manipulate less and less.
I expected a preboil gravity of 1.041 and my gravity at the end of the mash was 1.041 before the sparge so I knew it was low, but BeerSmith doesn't have anywhere to view what this number should be.
I sparged a little too quickly to hit my preboil volume and ended up with 1.035 into the boil kettle. Then 1.042 OG.
So I can either manipulate my efficiency to make up for the difference, or I can try to fiddle with my volumes (which were high).
Overall I love the system. 4.5 hour total brew day and cleanup, which is on par with my old BIAB system.
Next time I might do a batch sparge just so I don't have to deal with matching the flow rates of the two pumps, or I might do a full volume mash with no sparge and see how that works out.
Gibberoni
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First, thanks to everyone in this thread for making it easier to pick the Spike System! I just placed my order for my 20 gallon system today.
Looking forwards to doing a brew with this system in the next few weeks!
I got most of the things that you all listed that would help, but for the life of me, I cannot find any silicone mats that will fit under the 20 gallon kettles. Do any of you have a link to good mats? I got a stainless table, and I dont want that thing to get too hot to touch!
Looking forwards to doing a brew with this system in the next few weeks!
I got most of the things that you all listed that would help, but for the life of me, I cannot find any silicone mats that will fit under the 20 gallon kettles. Do any of you have a link to good mats? I got a stainless table, and I dont want that thing to get too hot to touch!
I don’t find mats are necessary. My stainless table never got hot. Not sure where this idea came from but you should brew first and make your own decision if you need it.
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Totally agree with this. I have never felt the need for mats table is never hot to the touch
Gibberoni
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Awesome, that is great to know. I guess I can start brewing as soon as everything gets here! I cannot wait to get a brew done on this system.
I got the silicon mat as protection for the table, not heat protection. With my 20 gallon system it seems the pots scratched the table everytime I moved them. If you do get them, get the large ones from SS Brewtech, vs the cheap pizza mats on Amazon. For about five bucks more, they are well worth the money.
BeerMaverick
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I dislike beersmith for this very reason - Brad makes many assumptions that I disagree with... I ended up making my own spreadsheet that I find much more accurate (I'm able to nail my predicted numbers on the head every time now... granted this took 5 years of de-bugging, correcting, and getting used to the Spike System). If you have questions on efficiency / using your Spike system more efficiently let me know and I can answer questions (I get in the low to mid-90s in terms of mash efficiency for my lightest beers). If you don't do this already, make an efficiency spreadsheet where you track efficiency vs grain amount for each brew. You'll see that the relationship is fairly linear and will enable to you develop a pretty accurate equation to determine a mash efficiency for any given grain amount (assuming you're not constantly changing other variables such as grain crush coarseness, mash ratio, etc.).
In that case I do see them useful if you don’t like the table getting scratched.
I am two brews in on my Spike System. I have been hitting or exceeding my OG numbers so far. I am struggling a little with temperatures after mashing in. So far I have been adding cool water to the HLT to try and get the HLT to about 5 degrees warmer then my desired mash temp. The problem is, keeping the flow rate slow enough to avoid stuck mash means you wait a long time to get the mash temp to respond. What have you been doing for this and how is it working out?
I had my pump flow going pretty fast (maybe 30% of wide Open) during the mash actually and had no issues
You might increase your crush size a hair. I also made sure to let the mash sit for about 10 minutes before turning on the recirc pump. That helps the grain bed to settle a bit before recirculating
I also mashed at 2L/lb of grain so it was a pretty thin mash which also probably helped.
Gibberoni
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Well I completed my first brew on this system yesterday. First thing I will say is WOW. This makes brewing so much easier than messing with buckets and thermapens, and vaurlaufing (sp?).
I cleaned the whole system with a good helping of TSP before my brewday, and didnt get any of the black gunk that some others have reported. I just ran it through my system for a good 10 minutes in each kettle and them wiped it down with a towel, then ran hot clean water and repeated.
First thing I noticed: It does take quite a while to get that 20 gallons of water for the HLT heated!!! It took about 45 mins to an hour for me. Next time, I will go ahead and get the water ready the night before, and when I wake up just turn the system on and then make coffee and the like.
For those that make water adjustments... how do you do them? I filled my HLT up to 20 gallons of water and then used the ~7 that I needed for the mash, but was below the coil at that point, so I had to top up with an additional ~3 gallons. Adding that additional water would mess up any water treating I had done... unless I kept a bucket of treated water ready to go I guess.
I also had issues with holding my mash temp at where I wanted. Beersmith of course said to mash at 168 for 152 mash temp. I mashed and started the re-circulation and turned the HLT down to 154 (to account for hose loss), and it literally refused to go down to 152 for about 20 minutes, and that was even adding ice and tap water! HAHA. I will mash closer to the mash temp next time.
No issues with sparging. Set the HLT to crank up the temp about 10 minutes before I started to sparge and I got close to 168. Sparged for about 45 minutes until I got my boil volume. I really didnt want to leave any sweet wort in the mashtun, so when I got close to the boil I shut off the water from the HLT->MLT and let the MLT drain completely to the BK. That left me about 4 gallons of hot water in the HLT.
On another note, I turned the element on for the BK as soon as it was covered. The HLT was holding temp with the lid closed, so I wasnt worried. I also blasted it at 100% for a few seconds to get it to around 170 before I did this. This really helped speed the brew day up. I was boiling only 5 minutes after the sparge completed.
I did a 90 minute boil APA with a lot of FW hop additions and doing a whirlpool (with a hop steep) for 30 minutes made a huge difference. Almost no trub into the fermenter.
The counterflow chiller is crazy. I whirlpooled the beer through that and dropped it from boiling to 130 in 2 minutes. Then I switched the hoses up and ran it straight to the fermenter and it was ~100 when i closed up the fermenter. Amazing. That process used to take me at least an hour.
Overall impressions are great. I love this system. My brewday didnt increase, it actually decreased (this brew started at 11:30 and ended around 17:30, including cleaning).
I now just need to figure out how to mount my control panel to the wall securely, and where to get an O2 regulator to aerate the wort in the fermenter.
I cleaned the whole system with a good helping of TSP before my brewday, and didnt get any of the black gunk that some others have reported. I just ran it through my system for a good 10 minutes in each kettle and them wiped it down with a towel, then ran hot clean water and repeated.
First thing I noticed: It does take quite a while to get that 20 gallons of water for the HLT heated!!! It took about 45 mins to an hour for me. Next time, I will go ahead and get the water ready the night before, and when I wake up just turn the system on and then make coffee and the like.
For those that make water adjustments... how do you do them? I filled my HLT up to 20 gallons of water and then used the ~7 that I needed for the mash, but was below the coil at that point, so I had to top up with an additional ~3 gallons. Adding that additional water would mess up any water treating I had done... unless I kept a bucket of treated water ready to go I guess.
I also had issues with holding my mash temp at where I wanted. Beersmith of course said to mash at 168 for 152 mash temp. I mashed and started the re-circulation and turned the HLT down to 154 (to account for hose loss), and it literally refused to go down to 152 for about 20 minutes, and that was even adding ice and tap water! HAHA. I will mash closer to the mash temp next time.
No issues with sparging. Set the HLT to crank up the temp about 10 minutes before I started to sparge and I got close to 168. Sparged for about 45 minutes until I got my boil volume. I really didnt want to leave any sweet wort in the mashtun, so when I got close to the boil I shut off the water from the HLT->MLT and let the MLT drain completely to the BK. That left me about 4 gallons of hot water in the HLT.
On another note, I turned the element on for the BK as soon as it was covered. The HLT was holding temp with the lid closed, so I wasnt worried. I also blasted it at 100% for a few seconds to get it to around 170 before I did this. This really helped speed the brew day up. I was boiling only 5 minutes after the sparge completed.
I did a 90 minute boil APA with a lot of FW hop additions and doing a whirlpool (with a hop steep) for 30 minutes made a huge difference. Almost no trub into the fermenter.
The counterflow chiller is crazy. I whirlpooled the beer through that and dropped it from boiling to 130 in 2 minutes. Then I switched the hoses up and ran it straight to the fermenter and it was ~100 when i closed up the fermenter. Amazing. That process used to take me at least an hour.
Overall impressions are great. I love this system. My brewday didnt increase, it actually decreased (this brew started at 11:30 and ended around 17:30, including cleaning).
I now just need to figure out how to mount my control panel to the wall securely, and where to get an O2 regulator to aerate the wort in the fermenter.
Second brew day complete
I tweaked my BeerSmith profile and was able to hit very close to all my numbers. It looks like I'm getting about 73% brew house efficiency and 85% mash efficiency so I'm happy with that.
I also learned that the HERMS coil can apparently back itself out of its fittings. It worked perfectly the first brew and leaked during this one. Luckily I had mashed in low for an acid rest and I could just stick my whole arm in there and fix it. I'll just need to make sure it's seated before the next brew day.
5 hours total brew day including cleanup. I love this system
I tweaked my BeerSmith profile and was able to hit very close to all my numbers. It looks like I'm getting about 73% brew house efficiency and 85% mash efficiency so I'm happy with that.
I also learned that the HERMS coil can apparently back itself out of its fittings. It worked perfectly the first brew and leaked during this one. Luckily I had mashed in low for an acid rest and I could just stick my whole arm in there and fix it. I'll just need to make sure it's seated before the next brew day.
5 hours total brew day including cleanup. I love this system
Brewfreedom
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Took me a while to dial things in and still every now and then have random mishaps and gravity misses. Cleaning on this system is great once you add a wet vac and just hit the mashtun while boiling. Definitely needs a sparge arm and I seem to do my best when I dedicate a full hour to trickling the water in.
An hour?!
I sparged in 20 mins and was within 1 point of my predicted preboil gravity... An hour seems crazy long
Brewfreedom
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Ohhh that makes way more sense... I was thinking, holy crap I'm doing it wrong or this guy's bonkers [emoji12]
Brewfreedom
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Yeah normal brews im at about 30mins. Usually within a point or three of where i want to be. Slow trickle sparge gives time to drink.
How do you guys start your sparge? I just did my 2nd batch yesterday and had poor efficiency vs my 1st batch where I accidentally sparged in like 5min where I actually gained .004 points. I thought I would try starting the sparge water first to get flow and then start draining to kettle
I do the opposite, I start the flow to the BK first and make sure it's nice and slow, and then try to match the flow with the sparge water, trying to keep about an inch of water over the grain bed
From what I've been reading, it seems like poor mash efficiency on this system is very commonly caused by channeling though your grain bed.
As counterintuitive as it seems, I've been told that a coarser crush will help increase efficiency on these systems (0.050 being ideal). The larger particle size allows flow through the recirculating mash to remain more uniform so channeling is less likely.
Rice hulls and a fine crush should also accomplish the same thing.
A slow flow rate during mash recirc and sparge also helps
Gibberoni
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I do the same as TheMadKing. I start pulling water from my MLT to the BK until I see a nice steady slow flow, then turn on the water pump to start the mash out, trying to keep an inch or so above the grain bed. One thing I am worried about is channeling. I do want to invest in a sparge arm that will allow me to spin the water around the mash as it falls, hopefully eliminating the channeling, but I hit my numbers pretty close on my first brew day, so I am not too worried.
We will see this weekend when I brew a Kolsch!
BeerMaverick
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It's a pretty great system and makes brewing far more fun. So for water I add my salts to the MLT based on the strike volume (I actually heat my strike water in the BK (I don't draw it from the HLT) - that way the HLT water isn't impacted and it's already at the correct temp for when I start the mash recirc (about 3F above the mash temp). If you do it this way you'll want to heat it in the BK above your strike temp since it will drop upon transfer to the MLT (I usually heat it to 185F or something way up there, transfer to MLT, and recirc in the MLT (not connected to HERMS at this point) until it's dropped to the correct strike temp then add grain (I've found 7F-9F, depending on grain amount and mash ratio, above target mash temp is the ideal strike temp for this system) - so if I want to mash at 154F, my strike will be between 161F-163F depending on the above variables. My HLT is then 3F above target mash temp (so 157F in this example). Anyway, back to the salts.... salts to MLT based on strike volume and salts to BK based on some ratio of strike and sparge volumes. The BK addition basically accounts for the dilution due to sparging if I remember correctly.
Why don't you heat your strike water in your mash tun by running it through your HERMS coil and heating it at the same time as the HLT?
Gibberoni
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Well I am going to sound dumb, but I didnt even think of that. I guess my old way of thinking (heat the mash water, dump into MLT) kept me locked in! Next brew I will treat the mash water in the MLT and recirc it while heating the HLT. I will treat the remaining water in the HLT to the point that I need it for the sparge.
Thanks MadKing!
BeerMaverick
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To each their own - I do it the BK way since the strike water temp in the MLT is higher than I want the HLT water to be at (say strike is 162F for a resulting 154F mash temp when grain is added). The HLT water would need to be about 165F to get the MLT to 162F for strike (I want the HLT to be at 157F to keep the mash at 154F). It wouldn't take long to decrease the HLT temp the 8F degrees (from 165F to 157F), but this way I don't have to worry about it. Perhaps my way is convoluted haha.
Glad to help and didn't mean it as an insult at all! Any way to make beer isn't wrong, just a different way
Since it's a HERMS system you don't need to overshoot your strike temp as much since the water, mash tun and everything will all be at strike temp already.
If you want to mash at 150 you probably only need to heat your mash tun to 153 or so, since the only thing dropping the temp is the grain, and you're already recirculating back through your HERMS coil to keep the temp where you want it.
BeerMaverick
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I'm not sure I follow - my mash temp drops between 7-9F when I add grain depending on how much grain I add (20 gal kettles), so the HLT temp would be 7-9F above where I want it to be when the mash recirc needs to start (if I were to use the method you're mentioning). So, if I started the mash recirc right then, the mash temp would increase above where I want it to be since the HLT is 7-9F hotter than where it needs to be. I agree that everything would reach equilibrium eventually, but I'd personally rather hit my exact mash temp and keep it there the whole time. I might be missing something you're trying to convey though.
Yeah sorry I didn't explain it well.
The point I was trying to make is:
If you are heating your strike water in a separate vessel and then transferring it to your mash tun and then adding grain, you have to heat your strike water high enough to account for the temperature losses from the transfer and the mash tun itself in addition to the grain.
If you heat your strike water directly in your mash tun using your HERMS coil, you only have to account for the temperature loss to the grain, so the temperature needed is much lower (especially if you mash thin, which I do at 2qt/lb)
So here's an example of how I do it.
I heat the strike water in my mash tun. I want a mash temp of 150, I only have to have the strike water heated to 156 (and my HLT set to 158). It takes awhile to get the temps that close, but I usually just switch it on and go have breakfast or something and give it an hour or so to heat up and reach equilibrium.
As soon as I mash in I shut off the HLT element but keep the HLT recirculation pump on. When I mash in, my mash temp hits 150 as planned. I let it sit for 10 minutes to set the grain bed. During that time, the HLT water has dropped about 4 degrees and is now at 152. So I flip on the pumps and start recirculating my mash and set the HLT temp to 154 (which accounts for the temp loss through my hoses). The mash temp stays in the 150-151 range and the HLT temp slowly rises to 154 and holds my mash temp constant. I adjust the temp of the HLT up or down as needed.
Honestly it doesn't matter one bit, and the way you're doing it is perfectly fine - just different strokes
i use a ro/di system to fill my hlt and run a little extra into a bucket, especially for bigger beers. heat the hlt to mash strike temp, fill mt and recirc through the coil until mt water is at strike temp. i then mash in, add my salts directly to the mash and drop hlt temp to one degree above mash temp. the hlt element 'turns off' in the sense that the set temp is lower than actual temp so the pid doesn't fire it. after a few minutes, i take the extra ro/di water and dump it into the hlt. this cold water addition drops the hlt temp quickly down to mash levels and also submerges the portion of the hlt coil that inevitably gets exposed while filling the mt. a fully submerged coil will have better heat transfer characteristics when recirculating the mash, compared to exposed coil turns.
BeerMaverick
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I gotcha, I was following all of that, but didn't grasp that you were NOT recirculating your MLT water thru the HERMS directly after mashing in - you are just recircing the HLT to let it cool down enough in order to start the mash recirc (so the MLT temp isn't increasing to above where you want it). I may try this next time to see what I prefer.
Has anyone just done a normal batch sparge with this system? I might try that next time just to see what I get. I’m assuming my efficiency won’t take that much of a hit and it would be easier for sure. I would just drain the mash then add my sparge volume and recirc that for 10min minutes to get a clear wort.
daveerickson
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How have others setup Beersmith to handle differences in pre heating or not? Are are there better methods to calculate water temps?
Just I set my mash tun temp to be the same as my mash rest temp on the "Mash" tab and it seems to accurately predict my strike water remp
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