Some authentic Belgian wit recipes?

[Ali01]

I need some authentic Belgian wit recipes
I don't know which ones on beersmith are actually good
I know how good a beer tastes really does have to with the process of brewing it, but I need a good place to start

 

[Jeroen79]

Go for about 35% wheat, and make sure its unmalted wheat, otherwise its a weisen instead of a belgian wit.

I also add some malted oats to give it some creaminess.

And i would go for the M21 yeast.

 

[hottpeper13]

M21 all the way, and I use enough malted oats to not require rice hulls in the mash. Oat husks are awesome.

 

[beren]

I really like the allagash beer/yeast. Can let a few bottles sit in the fridge to settle and build a starter from the dregs slowly.

 

[MaxStout]

I did one a couple years ago that turned out well. About half Belgian Pilsner, half flaked wheat, and a pound of flaked oats. Sweet orange peel and coriander seed (the Indian variety). Perle for boil hops. M21 yeast.

 

[beren]

Allagash wit clone recipe, tasty.

 

[IslandLizard]

Allagash wit clone recipe, tasty.

That looks to be a very good recipe, yes!

Traditionally, (e.g., Hoegaarden) 50% flaked wheat is used in Witbiers. You could use either Pilsner malt or a Pale Ale malt for the balance.
You may need to add rice or oat hulls depending on your mash tun/lautering system. If you mash in a bag you probably won't need them, just a good squeeze. A sparge may help with your (lauter) efficiency.

I'd recommend milling the flaked wheat for faster hydration and enzyme access. You could boil them for 30', ahead of the mash for better gelatinization, and faster/better conversion.

You may have a hard time finding Grains of Paradise, and although historically known as the "poor man's pepper" they're crazy high-priced now, if you can find them at all.
Use regular crushed/powdered pepper instead, either a black or white variety.

I'm glad the recipe mentions ground Curacao Orange Peel (and ground Coriander). Pulverizing the dried orange peel* will provide better/quicker flavor extraction from it. You can run a few chunks in a spice mill, spinner-type coffee mill, or chop up finely with a sharp knife. When adding to the boil, it's all about rehydration and permeation, and large chunks don't do either very well.

* Curacao Orange Peel is generally sold as Bitter Orange Peel, which should be the same product (allegedly). If you could lay your hands on a fresh Curacao Orange, and use its fresh peel, that would be best. Alas, they're very hard to find, and chances are you may get duped in the buying process.

 

[MaxStout]

I will add that the variety of coriander you use makes a big difference. The stuff from the spice aisle in the supermarket isn't so good. Look for the Indian variety (the seeds are elongated). You can usually pick it up in a South Asian market, or on Amazon.

Crush it just before adding to the boil. A little goes a long way.

 

[beren]

You may have a hard time finding Grains of Paradise, and although historically known as the "poor man's pepper" they're crazy high-priced now, if you can find them at all.
Use regular crushed/powdered pepper instead, either a black or white variety.

No. Just order some online or at a brew store. It's not quite the same flavor. You can always leave it out too.

Also flaked wheat should already be pre-gelatinized.

 

[IslandLizard]

Also flaked wheat should already be pre-gelatinized.

Only partially.
Same with all flaked/rolled products.

 

[beren]

Only partially.
Same with all flaked/rolled products.

Hmm ok. But it’s gelatinization temp is 124-140 so easy to finish in the mash. No need to boil.
https://bakerpedia.com/processes/starch-gelatinization/

 

[mashpaddled]

Pretty much any clone recipe from a reputable source is going to give you a good "authentic" recipe. Virtually all wit recipes you'll find are derived from Hoegaarden and that style of white beer. Coriander and orange peel are the typical spicing for that reason. Those recipes will produce what most people consider "authentic" for the style.

 

[leedspointbrew]

If I'm looking to make an Allagash-similar recipe with T-58 yeast, do I have to back off on the spices in these recipes I'm finding, since in my experince Allagash is much less spicy that Hoegaarden?

 

[khannon]

I just did a ~10G batch
I used all valley malt (local maltster)
13# pils
5# flaked wheat
4# malted wheat
1# dexterine malt
1# flaked oats

Mashed @ 152F


60 mins bittering hop I used .5 oz azacca at 14%
15 Mins, I used .5oz hopsteiner Lotus
and at flameout I added 1 oz saaz, 1 oz sweet oarange peel, and .5 oz freshly crushed coriander. I brought the temp to 180, and held it there for 30 mins before chilling to the fermentor.
OG 1.044 FG 1.010, so it came in at 4.4% so I can have a few..

I pitched wyeast 3864 canadian/belgian yeast free ride in the basement @60F.. (as I put a triple on the yeast afterwards).

It came out awesome.. nice flavor, aroma, cloudy enough, nice white head, great mouthfeel. Closest I've come to Allagash so far. Side by side they are pretty close as long as I rouse the yeast in the Allagash. I've gotten more than a few "I don't normally drink beer, but this is great." comments. Biggest problem now is 1/2 was supposed to go to a festival in a month and a half, and I think I am going to need to re-brew to get some there..

 

[IslandLizard]

From what I've read, a Belgian Wit contains at least 50% "raw" (unmalted) wheat. Either "flaked" (rolled) or crushed wheat berries can be used for that. The crushed wheat berries would need to be cereal mashed ahead of the main mash, to gelatinise the starches.

"Flaked" (rolled) wheat is only partially pregelatinized, so it would benefit from a cereal mash too.

 

[khannon]

From what I've read, a Belgian Wit contains at least 50% "raw" (unmalted) wheat. Either "flaked" (rolled) or crushed wheat berries can be used for that. The crushed wheat berries would need to be cereal mashed ahead of the main mash, to gelatinise the starches.

"Flaked" (rolled) wheat is only partially pregelatinized, so it would benefit from a cereal mash too.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any source on this? I know Belgians tend to like the un-malted wheat, and I've seen several references in some of the wild-ale/sour side of things, but not anything particular on other beers. I've never seen anything using >50% un-malted wheat before. In my recipe I didn't do anything special before the mash with my un-malted (or malted) wheat, I did get pretty low efficiency, so maybe I should have. I also was looking for a low(er) abv, so wasn't paying too close attention.

 

[G_robertus]

From what I understood (also from Belgian and Dutch sources) is that they use up to 50% raw wheat. Weizens use a minimum of 50% wheat malt I think by law. Fwiw I also tend to crush my flakes a bit or mash longer until I get full conversion. I don't have many issues, even if I use 30-50% flakes, with efficiency. Drainage and scorching are a different story though.

 

[Jeroen79]

We can actually buy unmalted but steamed wheat flakes here, they do not require gelatiniation and can just be added to the mash.

 

[IslandLizard]

We can actually buy unmalted but steamed wheat flakes here, they do not require gelatiniation and can just be added to the mash.

The wheat berries get first steamed to soften, then rolled into the familiar "flakes."
The heat (and moisture) from the steam and the hot rollers help with gelatinizing the starches. But... that process tends to be imperfect, so one can end up with only partially gelatinized wheat (oats, barley, rye, etc) flakes.

You may not notice that (as much) with 10-15% flaked adjuncts, but when it's 40-50% mash efficiency may take quite a hit.

Performing a cereal mash with those "flakes" will help fully gelatinize those starches, so they all can be converted in the subsequent mash.

I often do cereal mashes when using larger percentages (20-60%) of "flaked" wheat, rye, corn, etc., in the boil kettle. After a mashout, the (converted cooler) mash tun is then used for lautering and sparging. I get good efficiencies and excellent beer with that method.

 

[IslandLizard]

Just out of curiosity, do you have any source on this?

Sorry, not on hand. That notion comes from the time I was doing some research on Witbier recipes/methods, 10-some years ago.

This recipe in our database shows 50% flaked wheat:
45.0 4.50 lbs. Pilsener Malt(2-Row) Continental Eu 1.035 1
45.0 4.50 lbs. Flaked Soft White Wheat America 1.034 2
10.0 1.00 lbs. Rice Hulls America 1.000 0
Source: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/hoegaarden-witbier-clone-pierre-celis-white.133873/

 

[leedspointbrew]

I just did a ~10G batch
I used all valley malt (local maltster)
13# pils
5# flaked wheat
4# malted wheat
1# dexterine malt
1# flaked oats

Mashed @ 152F


60 mins bittering hop I used .5 oz azacca at 14%
15 Mins, I used .5oz hopsteiner Lotus
and at flameout I added 1 oz saaz, 1 oz sweet oarange peel, and .5 oz freshly crushed coriander. I brought the temp to 180, and held it there for 30 mins before chilling to the fermentor.
OG 1.044 FG 1.010, so it came in at 4.4% so I can have a few..

I pitched wyeast 3864 canadian/belgian yeast free ride in the basement @60F.. (as I put a triple on the yeast afterwards).

It came out awesome.. nice flavor, aroma, cloudy enough, nice white head, great mouthfeel. Closest I've come to Allagash so far. Side by side they are pretty close as long as I rouse the yeast in the Allagash. I've gotten more than a few "I don't normally drink beer, but this is great." comments. Biggest problem now is 1/2 was supposed to go to a festival in a month and a half, and I think I am going to need to re-brew to get some there..

Just a question : I'm (sort of) modeling my upcoming wit on this recipe, but was wondering about the grain bill : 25 lbs of grain seems like a lot for a 10-gallon batch, unless I've been lowballing my grain bills for years. For a ~4 gal batch, I was going to do :

3.75 lb pilsner
2.75 lb flaked wheat
2.75 lb malted wheat
.25 lb dexterine malt
.25 lb flaked oats = 9.75 lbs
Going to use Azacca for bittering, Crystal instead of Hopsteiner Lotus at 15, then the 1 oz sweet orange peel / .5 oz coriander at flameout.

Particularly seems like a lot of grain for 4.4% beer. This is not a criticism, I'm just curious (again) if I've been doing something wrong.
Thanks.

 

[beren]

Just a question : I'm (sort of) modeling my upcoming wit on this recipe, but was wondering about the grain bill : 25 lbs of grain seems like a lot for a 10-gallon batch, unless I've been lowballing my grain bills for years. For a ~4 gal batch, I was going to do :

3.75 lb pilsner
2.75 lb flaked wheat
2.75 lb malted wheat
.25 lb dexterine malt
.25 lb flaked oats = 9.75 lbs
Going to use Azacca for bittering, Crystal instead of Hopsteiner Lotus at 15, then the 1 oz sweet orange peel / .5 oz coriander at flameout.

Particularly seems like a lot of grain for 4.4% beer. This is not a criticism, I'm just curious (again) if I've been doing something wrong.
Thanks.

I like the allagash clone from here. 11lbs for a 5.2% abv. I even built up the dregs from a few bottles and have allagash yeast in my freezer collection now. 2nd most used yeast after Irish ale.

 

[khannon]

Just a question : I'm (sort of) modeling my upcoming wit on this recipe, but was wondering about the grain bill : 25 lbs of grain seems like a lot for a 10-gallon batch, unless I've been lowballing my grain bills for years. For a ~4 gal batch, I was going to do :

3.75 lb pilsner
2.75 lb flaked wheat
2.75 lb malted wheat
.25 lb dexterine malt
.25 lb flaked oats = 9.75 lbs
Going to use Azacca for bittering, Crystal instead of Hopsteiner Lotus at 15, then the 1 oz sweet orange peel / .5 oz coriander at flameout.

Particularly seems like a lot of grain for 4.4% beer. This is not a criticism, I'm just curious (again) if I've been doing something wrong.
Thanks.

My efficiency has been a little low. Trying out a new bottom draining mash tun and haven't gotten it dialed in yet, so I just add some more grain.

I used the lotus because I'm trying to work through some of the ~35lbs of hops in my freezer before buying more and it looked like it might add something..

FWIW, I put the orange peel and coriander into tea bags mostly because I wasn't sure of orange peel expansion.

 

[khannon]

I like the allagash clone from here. 11lbs for a 5.2% abv. I even built up the dregs from a few bottles and have allagash yeast in my freezer collection now. 2nd most used yeast after Irish ale.

Good to know, Next can of Allagash will be stored similarly. What else have you used it in? Working on a freezer collection now, I think it is fast approaching my time being worth less than the insane cost of yeast these days.

 

[z-bob]

From what I've read, a Belgian Wit contains at least 50% "raw" (unmalted) wheat. Either "flaked" (rolled) or crushed wheat berries can be used for that. The crushed wheat berries would need to be cereal mashed ahead of the main mash, to gelatinise the starches.

"Flaked" (rolled) wheat is only partially pregelatinized, so it would benefit from a cereal mash too.

What about wheat flour? (I'm serious) And should it be whole wheat or all-purpose flour? I have used AP flour in beer before, up to 50%, and it works well without a cereal mash. But I don't know if that's right for a Belgian Wit.

 

[IslandLizard]

What about wheat flour? (I'm serious) And should it be whole wheat or all-purpose flour? I have used AP flour in beer before, up to 50%, and it works well without a cereal mash. But I don't know if that's right for a Belgian Wit.

AP wheat flour is finely milled wheat berries, after the bran was polished off.
So it should work just as fine in a Belgian Wit. Try a (small) batch.

Because of the very fine dust-like milling, the starches may very well be ready to be fully hydrated, without the need for pregelatinization.

Whole wheat flour will contain the (brown) bran. Could that change the flavor somewhat, toward whole wheat, perhaps? Dunno, never tried.
Now barley, rye, oats etc. always contain the bran, as well as the husks. And we're not complaining about those.

 

[G_robertus]

What about wheat flour? (I'm serious) And should it be whole wheat or all-purpose flour? I have used AP flour in beer before, up to 50%, and it works well without a cereal mash. But I don't know if that's right for a Belgian Wit.

Works fine to brew with, but you might not get what you're looking for. You do have to remember that the extraction yield of flour is nearly 100%, because of the fine particles and removal of the bran. I must say that it doesn't replicate flaked wheat exactly, it is less pillowy and lacks the raw wheat flavour. Up to now I've only used cheap AP flour, so my guess is that it's either the lower protein content and/or lack of bran. I'm thinking the former for mouthfeel and the latter for taste. Side by side they were very easy to distinguish though. Maybe bread flour or wholemeal works better, but I haven't tried that yet.
Don't use flour in these quantities in an AIO or with other electric heating elements. BIAB is easiest, but prepare to massage the hell out of the bag. You won't notice that it's flour in smaller quantities or sour beer, but I'm not sure you'll get an accurate wit with AP.

 

[z-bob]

Don't use flour in these quantities in an AIO or with other electric heating elements. BIAB is easiest, but prepare to massage the hell out of the bag. You won't notice that it's flour in smaller quantities or sour beer, but I'm not sure you'll get an accurate wit with AP.

That's why I haven't tried it again. But it was a positive enough experience that I would add 10% flour to any beer where it might be appropriate -- just about any pale ale. It's a really cheap fermentable and will help with body and head retention. And it's so easy to add, just stir it into the grist before mashing.

 

[G_robertus]

I do that in a pinch as well when I'm not looking for the flavour, but want something more than plain sugar and/or better head retention. But given the prices of higher brand flour it's cheaper to just buy flakes if I want the actual raw wheat flavour and texture.