I’ve tried both of those methods and unless I’m doing something wrong, neither gives me the flavor I’m after. I’ve tried hard water, soft water, mash roasted grains, cold steep roasted grains, liquid Irish ale yeast, Nottingham yeast, different types and brands of grains, carbonate, serve with nitro but have never made a batch when I take a drink I say “This is it!” I’m 100% convinced that the water they use has a unique flavor we can’t reproduce, their house yeast is something special, they have a proprietary ingredient that we don’t know about and/or a combination of any or all 3 of those things. I can taste the same flavor in Smithwick’s too. I emailed Guinness to ask for advice and they told me to pound sand.