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Slanting yeast

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Hmmm, so one vote for crash and one vote to pitch on top haha.

I'd prefer just to pitch it without the crash, for a few reasons... Mainly for time constraints, but also as previously noted to keep the yeasts at their most active.

My logic on the dilution (I am using canned starter wort) is that it would still have the same amount of fermentables in it, just at a lower concentration. Does that seem logical? According to the calculator I'm using the lower gravity that I would be starting at should still yield the cell count that I am aiming for.


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Hollis how did it turn out for you?

Pitched my 1.5L starter in the wort and it hit FG within 4 days and tastes great.
 
Hollis how did it turn out for you?

Pitched my 1.5L starter in the wort and it hit FG within 4 days and tastes great.


Well I ended up not brewing the beer (yet). But I decided not to crash, and added the last addition on top of the 1l starter as it was starting to slow down.

The last step seemed to take a little while to complete (part of the reason for delaying the brew), which in retrospect is probably due to the lower concentration of sugars in the starter wort.

It did eventually finish though, and is currently in the fridge to let it clarify, I'll probably brew the beer next week.

This was my first propagation from a slant, and I am more than happy with it! Used about a third of one slanted tube and ended up with what looks to be a very healthy sized pitch of yeast. Thanks to everyone here who has helped with my excessive amount of questions lol.


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My most recent slanted yeasts have developed some condensation on the inside if the tubes, with the culture already in them...

Will these be ok? I am assuming this is weather related?

ImageUploadedByHome Brew1403098053.291897.jpg


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My most recent slanted yeasts have developed some condensation on the inside if the tubes, with the culture already in them...

Will these be ok? I am assuming this is weather related?

Are they sealed shut already? Or open and being allowed to breathe (i.e. newly inoculated)? If they are shut, then this is totally normal and it's the agar agar media perspiring and releasing water. You may want to move them to a cooler part of your fridge, to help reduce that water loss. I keep my culture tubes right by the fridge vent on the top shelf of my fridge where the cool air enters the lower chamber. Another great place may be the crisper drawer at the bottom of the fridge (heat rises after all). Once the agar agar media dries out completely, the viability of the culture begins to reduce dramatically.
 
They were inoculated about 10 days ago, I noticed it when I went to deal them and move them to the fridge. So they have been capped loosely for the past several days. Should I seal them and move to fridge?


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They were inoculated about 10 days ago, I noticed it when I went to deal them and move them to the fridge. So they have been capped loosely for the past several days. Should I seal them and move to fridge?

If that is a fairly active yeast and from a very active fermentation, then a little respiration is totally normal. Fermentation is an exothermic reaction that releases heat and therefore cause water vapor along with CO2 to be released. Look again at some of your higher gravity batches of beer and look closely at the tube coming into the bottom of your airlock, they commonly have condensation built up from all that water vapor.

Seal them and move them to the fridge. I never allowed my slants to be inoculated in a warm weather environment to begin with. I always slanted and immediately placed them into the fridge. Never had a problem, I just had to uncap them less frequently to release CO2 as the fermentation in the tubes was not extremely active.
 
I saved a couple of yeasts on slants over the past couple months, but had yet to actually use one. Well I finally used my slanted london ale yeast wlp013 a recently, and I have to say it went better than I expected!

I took a loop of yeast from the slant and stuck it in 10ml of wort, then built it up to 70ml, 500ml, and then 3 liters, each after 24 hours, just dumping one into the next. My brew day got delayed so I ended up cold crashing it for a few days.

Well I finally pitched the yeast, there was 1 lag day, then 4 days later its done. It was one of my more vigorous fermentations, moreso than the first time I used wlp013. It also had higher attenuation, and went from 1.072 to 1.010. Very impressed, should make for a great IPA. Looks like slanting is the way to go! :ban:
 
It was one of my more vigorous fermentations, moreso than the first time I used wlp013. It also had higher attenuation, and went from 1.072 to 1.010. Very impressed, should make for a great IPA. Looks like slanting is the way to go! :ban:

I've seen the same thing in my 1 and only fermentation from a slant. This was the only time ever that I had a need for a blowoff tube with a Speidel 30L fermenter. It was a 5 gallon 1.060 batch with my normal temperature controlled fermentation. I've got a 1.083 in there right now that came nowhere close to needing a blowoff. As I continue to build up my library, I am looking forward to more opportunities to use my slants. Slanting saves me a few $$, but I am really using it in order to keep a large variety of yeasts on hand.:mug:
 
Took my first stab at this. I think I need to redo the slants. They don't seem to be setting. The bottom of the vials had about a half inch of solid, and the rest is like loose gelatin.
I think I need to use more agar powder in the mix than 2.5 grams
 
HollisBT, yetijunk and others, why do you think we all need to know that your phone is shiny, has a Apple logo on it and is manufactured in Chinese labour camps?
How is this related to brewing beer?

Wow! I thought I was the only one who finds these mobile "signatures" highly annoying. I wish they could be suppressed, which I bet, it's simply the app. generating that nonsense.

iDiots
 
HollisBT, yetijunk and others, why do you think we all need to know that your phone is shiny, has a Apple logo on it and is manufactured in Chinese labour camps?

How is this related to brewing beer?


Because we need you to understand that we are better than you.

Clearly it's working.


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I'm also curious if there is currently a phone on the market that isn't "manufactured in Chinese labor camps?" Not arguing, honestly curious.
 
How i agree! It (and its kind) has annoyd me since macebook started sending me invitations to join in the form of unknowns and oh, please quit asking/telling me to "Like you" on this or that site.

I am sure there must be a money trail somewhere but please- back off and drop dead.

just wanted to chime in and chant with you...

ohh-Kay...

My next post will try to get us back on topic!
 
OK
I have begun to slant.

& I made a few boo-boos.
(probably nothing serious, but definately some things I want to get your input on!)

First, I made the culture solution in an opaque pot... long story short...
I ended up with protein junk in my slants!

It was all in a flurry of actions I am not really sure if I was expecting trouble or not, but IIRC I think I might have tried to filter thru a coffee filter... dont know if I saw some thing or if I even filtered... I can't even remember when I noticed the problem... after sterilization or after filling or several days later.... but the bottom line is
I got lots of marbled slants...

Q1
Exactly... what do I need to do next time to make sure this doesn't happen again?

Q2
Can you forsee any problem as a result of using the marbled slants?
(I considered starting over,
but thought perhaps it was only a cosmetic issue and that success could still be at hand.
Do you think I made the right call?)

I stored the slants quite a long time (weeks) at room temp... there was no growth;
they were sterile.

Finally - i got around to innoculating them.

2 days at room temp and ea slant had the growth I was expecting.

Q3
How long should I let them grow at RT ?

I am thinking that letting them grow a bit will give any bad guys present
a chance to show themselves
(off colors etc.)

Q4
What is the down side of NOT refridgerating them?

Q5
What % coverage of the surface do you aim for before cool storage?

Thanks guys...





SENT TO YOU by an amazing new bit of old technology the knowledge of which I have no deisre force upon you.
 
the growing of yeast on agar, the surface of which forms an angle significantly unequal to 90 degrees with the sides of the container, by virtue of the agar solution solidifying in a test tube oriented in less than a totally upright position.
 
In an effort to save time when re-starting yeast, does anyone see a problem with sort of doubling up on how much yeast you start? For example, for a 10 gallon high gravity batch, could I grow enough cells using the following start up steps:

start three 10ml initial steps (24 hours)
add into 300ml of wort on stir plate (24 hours)
pitch to 3l starter on stir plate (36-48 hours)

Or possibly even breaking it down into three separate 100ml steps to pitch to the 3l step?

Any thoughts or input?
 
In an effort to save time when re-starting yeast, does anyone see a problem with sort of doubling up on how much yeast you start? For example, for a 10 gallon high gravity batch, could I grow enough cells using the following start up steps:

start three 10ml initial steps (24 hours)
add into 300ml of wort on stir plate (24 hours)
pitch to 3l starter on stir plate (36-48 hours)

Or possibly even breaking it down into three separate 100ml steps to pitch to the 3l step?

Any thoughts or input?

That scheme should work. All your steps are within the 10x increase recommended by Chris White and others. The only issue I can see, making 3 initial 10ml cultures triples your chance for contamination at the most critical step.

That said, I have been looking into and experimenting with inoculation rates for step increases. With all due respect for the 10x increase between steps there are other camps out there that would recommend a smaller fold increase, i.e. a higher inoculation rate. Somewhere I came across the 4 - 7 rule. I think it is practiced in Europe. Anyway, I have tried this with great success. The 4 - 7 rule says, step increases should be no less than 4x and no more than 7x. As it turn out, by following this rule, my steps are in log phase within 12 - 14 hours at 70 F under good aeration. Certainly there will be strain differences but my Belgian strains are typically ready in 12 hours. This saves a lot of time for preparation (even with the fact you may need an extra step) and allows a smaller window for any contamination to increase.

So consider this scheme:

Start a 10ml initial step (12 -24 hrs) 2 big loop-fulls from a fresh slant will be in log phase in 12 hrs, older cultures may require more time. Even better, start a few days earlier (4 for my strains) by dilution streaking from your slant to a plate and pick 4 -6 single colonies (you can be sure these single colonies are contamination free and are in great health).

Add to 60ml for a total of 70 ml (12 hrs)

Add to 400ml for a total of 470ml (12 hrs)

Pitch to 3l for a total of 3470ml (12 hrs to log phase)

A word of caution on pitching cultures grown from slants: This is practically the same method yeast labs use to produce yeast. Lab produced yeast is the healthiest most viable yeast possible and therefore require a lower pitching rate. And because you are producing them in your own lab, they are the freshest yeast possible. White Labs and Wyeast both recommend pitching about half the rate of lab produced yeast compared to re-pitching from a previous batch. So on average you would want to pitch 500,000 cells/ml/degree Plato. So for a 1.060 10 gallon batch you should pitch 283 billion cells. I increase that to 600,000 cells/ml/degree Plato for my higher gravity Belgian ales (~1.075). If you were doing a big lager you may want to use 750,000 cells/ml/degree Plato.

Concerning yeast yield when growing up from slants: Your yield may be much higher than what yeast calculators would predict. In the literature and my experience you can produce as much as 300 million cells per ml in a well aerated culture at 75 degrees F. 200 to 250 million may be good estimate if you can't count cells but estimate less if you are in doubt about your aeration. If your stir plate can make a vortex that touches the stir bar, estimate 200 to 250 million cells per ml. I just scored an orbital shaker and my last count was 292 million cells per ml!

So at 250 million cells per ml, your 3470ml culture would contain 867 Billion cells!

I'm saying all this because I learned the hard way. I kept building bigger and bigger cultures thinking I was under-pitching but my Belgians just kept getting cleaner and cleaner, lacking the esters I was looking for. After I gained the ability to count cells, I realized I was over-pitching by >2x.
 
OK
I have begun to slant.

& I made a few boo-boos.
(probably nothing serious, but definately some things I want to get your input on!)

First, I made the culture solution in an opaque pot... long story short...
I ended up with protein junk in my slants!

It was all in a flurry of actions I am not really sure if I was expecting trouble or not, but IIRC I think I might have tried to filter thru a coffee filter... dont know if I saw some thing or if I even filtered... I can't even remember when I noticed the problem... after sterilization or after filling or several days later.... but the bottom line is
I got lots of marbled slants...

Q1
Exactly... what do I need to do next time to make sure this doesn't happen again?

Q2
Can you forsee any problem as a result of using the marbled slants?
(I considered starting over,
but thought perhaps it was only a cosmetic issue and that success could still be at hand.
Do you think I made the right call?)

I stored the slants quite a long time (weeks) at room temp... there was no growth;
they were sterile.

Finally - i got around to innoculating them.

2 days at room temp and ea slant had the growth I was expecting.

Q3
How long should I let them grow at RT ?

I am thinking that letting them grow a bit will give any bad guys present
a chance to show themselves
(off colors etc.)

Q4
What is the down side of NOT refridgerating them?

Q5
What % coverage of the surface do you aim for before cool storage?

Thanks guys...


SENT TO YOU by an amazing new bit of old technology the knowledge of which I have no deisre force upon you.

Q2 first: I think what you are describing is break material and it should not cause any problem with your slants or growth (as you already know) or storage.

Q1: Although the break material is not a problem, like you, I don't like it in my slants and worse in my plates. You can remove most of the break material by letting your wort cool before you add the agar and decanting the wort off the break. However there may be more break form when you sterilize but it should be at a minimum and you will have fairly clear slants. Another option is to consider canning your wort. I like this option for a number of reasons including clear media. About once a year I set aside a day to can 10 gallons of wort. I actually brew up a 10 gallon batch of 1.04 wort and remove the hot and cold break, after the brewing process, the cooled wort is drained into half gallon, quart, and some pint sized canning jars and pressure cooked for 20 minutes. After the the jars cool, more break material will have formed and stetted to the bottom of the jars. Later, when preparing media, the wort is decanted off of the remaining break material and very clear slants and plates can be poured. I don't worry too much about the break for the culture media as I understand that some break is good for the yeast.

Q3: I like to just give mine a couple of days. As soon as growth is apparent they go in the fridge as cold as possible. Keep in mind that yeast on slants are still metabolizing (even at 32 F) and don't need a lot of competition.

Q4: See Q3. Make an extra and leave it out. You may be surprised at the response. The yeast will think they are in a batch of wort. If you tighten the cap, it might blow up!

Q5: I like to see about 30 - 40% coverage. I'm not sure how you streak onto your slant but for me I don't want solid coverage so I make one line down the center of the slanted agar surface then make a repeating S from the top the bottom of the surface so that as the yeast grow it forms a series of connected dollar signs ($).
 
Thanks trentm!

I think I get it now. I like your Be-Pre-Prepared method.

Do you tape/parafilm your (autoclavable capped) slant tubes?

(I'm only planning on doing that for plates...)

Thanks again,

BF
 
Most of my slants are now a year old, so it's time to re-slant them. Which leads me to two questions.

1) Should I plate out from the existing slants first, or simply slant to fresh media?

2) If my existing slants are Gen X, do they become Gen Y when re-slanted. I assume not, and figure the Generation only increments when they are used and grown in a starter & then wort.
 
No simply go from slant to slant. The purpose of the plate is to make sure you have a pure yeast culture that is not contaminated, and get a single celled culture. Also no on your second question, for me I only think of different generations when the yeast go through the streesses of a fermentation.

Edit for Blue Frogs question. I use parafilm on all my slant and plates. I am sure its not nessecary on the slants when they are sealed, but it only takes a little tiny piece for some extra peace of mind.
 
Edit for Blue Frogs question. I use parafilm on all my slant and plates. I am sure its not nessecary on the slants when they are sealed said:
What size (width) is your parafilm?

What else can I seal with the 5cm size?

50 or 100ml beakers?

tkx

bf
 
I use Saran Wrap as a sub for para film with good results. Remember to stretch it as you go around the plates circumference to lock it in place. A little goes a long way.


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No simply go from slant to slant. The purpose of the plate is to make sure you have a pure yeast culture that is not contaminated, and get a single celled culture.


Then why even reslant? I am under the impression that tesla ting is done to ensure viable yeast, in which case you would want to grow it up, test attenuation (preferably on a beer because why not), plate from the starter and slant from there. My concern would be losing attenuation from just reslanting 1 year old yeast.

Disclaimer, I'm not an authority on this. Just doing some thinking on the matter and want a good answer. If anyone has a technical link, I'd love to have it so I can read up on yeast viability when direct slanting.



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