That's where I learned it... Don O!
Simple Yeast Storage Procedure
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That's where I learned it... Don O!
roguenroll
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Another one. theres a ton of other vids up and down the side when you get to youtube.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF7DLNjh0WM[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF7DLNjh0WM[/ame]
I'm using a Wilser bag (tight weave viole bag) for BIAB. Wanting to try this simple yeast reclamation method I wondered.....If I use a whirlfloc tablet to bind up those proteins last few minutes of the boil, would filtering the kettle output though the voile bag into the fermenter capture any significant amount?
Less trub in my yeast is better, but I assume whatever trub I have is what made it through the viole bag. The difference being the addition of the whirlfloc tab makes me wonder when it "binds" to the proteins if its then big enough to be captured. If so it would be simple to slip my viole hop sock over the hose when filling fermenter. Any BIAB'ers know?
Less trub in my yeast is better, but I assume whatever trub I have is what made it through the viole bag. The difference being the addition of the whirlfloc tab makes me wonder when it "binds" to the proteins if its then big enough to be captured. If so it would be simple to slip my viole hop sock over the hose when filling fermenter. Any BIAB'ers know?
The bag might be a bit messy, and risky if using cold-side. Couldn't you just pass it all through a fine mesh strainer? I get a lot of break material and hops catching in my strainer that I have to scoop our once or twice to keep things flowing. If your biab bag or hop sock clogs on you it might be trickier to deal with.
EkieEgan
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My apologies if someone already asked this, but I'm wondering about the hops that are left in the trub. Will they negatively affect a new brew bitterness? For instance, is it OK to reuse trub from say an IPA and then ferment a stout with it? I've already read that washing the yeast doesn't necessarily remove the particles andvresins are usually soluble anyway, correct?
TandemTails
Well-Known Member
I'm going to have to try this on my next batch. Looks a lot simpler than yeast washing
Generally speaking it is not a problem.
You may not want to use use a yeast from a darker beer to ferment a lighter one.
Very good point
No, you won't have off flavors from using the trub because amount that ends up in your new beer is smaller comparatively. The volume of trub/hops you need to make a starter for a new batch ends up only being about 0.26% the volume of the new batch (50 ml / 5 gallons x 100). And that's after a lot of the flavors have already been extracted from the few hops particles that make it in.
It seems that more times than not when I reuse yeast with this method, I get a German Hefeweizen flavor to my beer. Sometimes it dissipates with time in the keg, others it does not.
I think I can now call this isoamyl acetate. This latest batch (the one pictured above that started off slow), I could definitely detect that it seemed closer to Banana. I watched this video and at 19:30 in the video [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXsu2LvlnG4[/ame] I found my answer.
My fermentation temps are usually at 64-66º so I think I can rule that out. What seems to be the common thread is that anytime I reuse liquid yeast, it can happen. More precisely using the no wash method.
Anyone else running into this? I've tried different water sources also. Most of the time it is liquid yeast (WLP001) but I had it happen once when I reused some US-05 in the same manner (as an experiment). I'm about ready to just use dry yeast and stop trying to harvest yeast.
I think I can now call this isoamyl acetate. This latest batch (the one pictured above that started off slow), I could definitely detect that it seemed closer to Banana. I watched this video and at 19:30 in the video [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXsu2LvlnG4[/ame] I found my answer.
My fermentation temps are usually at 64-66º so I think I can rule that out. What seems to be the common thread is that anytime I reuse liquid yeast, it can happen. More precisely using the no wash method.
Anyone else running into this? I've tried different water sources also. Most of the time it is liquid yeast (WLP001) but I had it happen once when I reused some US-05 in the same manner (as an experiment). I'm about ready to just use dry yeast and stop trying to harvest yeast.
I have. My last few batches have over attenuated and have a thin green applely taste to them.
I'm going to replace all my yeast, starting with the 1056 and 1968.
If your temperature is in the right range but fermentation is slow to start, underpitching could be the reason for the banana esters you're getting. Try increasing the amount of slurry, or better yet, make a small starter to freshen it up and produce new cells.
Appley sounds like green beer. Are you drinking it too young? If its thin and/or lacks body, maybe try raising mash temp, reducing mash time (if over 60 mins), and also watching your pitch rate. Overpitching tired old cells could be a culprit here. Doing a small starter really is a great way to gauge yeast health and estimate how much slurry you'll need.
Thanks Rhys, I have experienced the same when making a starter with slurry, both liquid and dry slurry. I recently harvested yeast from (4) 16 oz cans of Bells Two Hearted. Made a starter, then made another starter. First starter gravity was 1.020, second was 1.040. I am brewing today and will be pitching this yeast. Hoping it works out!
Could it be caused by too much grain/husks getting into the wort pre-boil? I am using the Grainfather and this was after 5 strains/scoops. I was getting about the same amount each time so I'm certain there is still plenty left in there that I can't see. The grain in the bottom of the sink is from the 4 prior scoops/sttrains.
I'm not sure. If grain in the boil was a problem, I'd expect astringency in the final product. I do BIAB, but I don't get a lot of grain in the boil, just hops and protein.
tgmartin000
Well-Known Member
From what I've heard, if the beer is heavily dry hopped, the oils can effectively "coat" the yeast cells, reducing the viability. There is a way to de-bitter the yeast, I think. Never tried it.
I see no problem in pitching this to a new batch but how about re-using at bottling time?
In using it for the same batch that it came from, would I have to make a small starter to re-activate the cells? It's been maybe a month since I harvested.
I have a quart mason jar filled almost midway. That seems like a bit much for bottling, yes?
In using it for the same batch that it came from, would I have to make a small starter to re-activate the cells? It's been maybe a month since I harvested.
I have a quart mason jar filled almost midway. That seems like a bit much for bottling, yes?
Are you proposing adding yeast at bottling time?
Not necessary.
Cannot say that I have ever seen or heard of anyone who has done this.
Yeah at bottling time. I've found in my experience that my bottles will carb within 2-3 weeks with fresh yeast when they've sat in secondary longer than 4 weeks. Especially if the OG was high. When I haven't re-pitched yeast on beers like this, it takes 6-8 weeks to carb.
I've read from other posts, that a lot of individuals don't experience this and never re-pitch, just as you're saying, but still carb within 2 weeks. Not sure why my experience is different, but re-pitching at bottling time is not unheard of. Lots of Belgian's are bottled this way, but with different strains than primary.
Brewkinger,
Sorry if I missed it, but could you describe your yeast washing procedure?
I'm going to be making 3 batches of Kolsch with 3 slightly different grain bills. Once the first has been racked, I would like to wash the yeast, wait a week and brew again pitching 120ml of slurry without a starter in the next batch. Wash, rinse and repeat for the third.
Sorry if I missed it, but could you describe your yeast washing procedure?
I'm going to be making 3 batches of Kolsch with 3 slightly different grain bills. Once the first has been racked, I would like to wash the yeast, wait a week and brew again pitching 120ml of slurry without a starter in the next batch. Wash, rinse and repeat for the third.
christyle
Well-Known Member
To avoid cluttering the Yeast Harvesting thread, I would suggest you do a search or PM him, it's covered a bunch of places.
You really don't need to wash the yeast. As per the OP you simply collect the trub from your fermentor, package in mason jars and store chilled in the fridge. For 1 week storage, you can just pitched the required anount directly from the mason jar.
Cloverdale
Member
I racked my beer yesterday and washed the yeast into 2 mason jars. Today I decided to brew, Do I need to bother making a starter or will it be fine to just pitch one of the jars? My OG is 1.048.
christyle
Well-Known Member
Should be fine, id just bring it to room temp before pitching
Cloverdale
Member
Awesome thanks!!
I do a vitality starter that I read about on Brulosophy. http://brulosophy.com/2015/06/29/yeast-pitch-rate-pt-2-viable-cell-count-vs-vitality-exbeeriment-results/
Cloverdale
Member
I have not heard of this before, next time I brew I will give this method a shot. I ended up pitching 2 decanted jars of yeast and it is fermenting away just fine.
thunderwagn
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I have a case of 1/2 pint jars (8oz) that I'd rather use than my qrt jars if possible just because I can fit them more easily in my fridge. Is it realistic calculating @ 1.5b cells x 236 ml for 355b cells? Just curious because on the OP, Woodlandbrew estimates 300b cells in a pint, so should I estimate half the cells (150b) for a half pint?
I store in 1 pint mason jars, but never use more than half the jar... so first I'd say you're fine using the 1/2 pint jars. If my stored yeast is under a month old I direct pitch the required amount. If its older I make a vitality starter to referesh what I have and build new cells.
For my BIAB process I typically estimate at 1-1.25B cells per ml with 15% cell loss per month of storage, but that's just what works for me from observations. I recommend you go with the 1.5B/ml and observe what happens. If the yeast seems active in the jar, its probably healthy and with a high cell count too (1.5B+). If your fermentation kicks off really quickly (as in 4-10 hours) the same applies. Conversely, if you get a long lag phase, say 36-72 hours, then you either have unhealthy or insufficient cells. For good pitching rates of healthy yeast, I like to see fermentation activity in 12-24 hours.
thunderwagn
Well-Known Member
Thanks. This go around I went ahead and used some qrt jars that I already had run through the canner with sterilized water. But I think I'll start doing half pints and pints. Full qrts seem to be a bit much for a single batch and the smaller jars will fit better in my fridge. I'd much rather do a vitality starter with smaller portions and have nice healthy cells.
I use 8 ounce mason jars for 5 gallon batches of ales and have lag times that are astounding sometimes. I'm amazed by how fast and vigorous the fermentations are with 8 ounces of trub from the previous batch, even if they were stored 2 or 3 months.
One thing I'm not yet clear on the density of the yeast in a jar. Say I follow the procedure - I stir up the yeast cake and pour it into 8 oz jars. In a few days it has settled into a dense yeast cake of some volume covered by beer for a total of 8oz. So is the volume that matters the 8oz I added to the jar I added to the jar in the first place or do I need to use multiple jars of dense settled yeast to get 8 oz total?
Yes, I'm probably over thinking this.
Use the settled out volume, not the initial volume. E.g.: If you collect 8oz slurry and it settles to 7oz, then base your cell density calculations on having 7oz yeast.
I pitched 250 ml of w34/70 frozen slurry into 3 gal of 1.037 wort yesterday afternoon at 60 f. I haven't seen any signs of activity yet. Trying to rdwhahb but it's difficult. First time that I've repitched from frozen.
It's going to take a few days to for that yeast to wake up. And 3 gallons is a lot of wort for amount of yeast. Just give it more time. You should see activity in a few days.
I'm not sure I agree with above. Assume at minimum 1 billion cells per mL, which is conservative and that gives you 250B cells and that is more than enough for 3 gal of 1.037 wort.
Even at half that estimate, you have 125B cells and that is also plenty.
I'm not saying that you should worry phug.
The first time I used yeast that had been frozen, I had a slow start as well. I think that I had wrong ratio of glycerine and that was the culprit.
Are you sure that your process was good?
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