Simple Yeast Storage Procedure

[brewkinger]

On average I get the first signs of activity in 12-24 hours, which is about right I think.

If fermentation was to kick off in 4 hours though, I'd assume I over-pitched my yeast and the cell density was higher than the 1.5B estimate.

I agree with the 1st part of your quote in terms of a normal ferment starting within 12-24 hours.

I respectfully disagree with the 2nd part though.
If an adequate starter is made and pitched at high krausen, it is not impossible to see fermentation with 6 hours.
I have had it happen on 3 of my last 5 batches and within 12 hours on the other 2.
I have used Woodlands 1.5B per mL recommendation and Brewers Friend calculator.
So if I am overpitching, then both of my main resources are way off.

 

[rhys333]

I agree with the 1st part of your quote in terms of a normal ferment starting within 12-24 hours.

I respectfully disagree with the 2nd part though.
If an adequate starter is made and pitched at high krausen, it is not impossible to see fermentation with 6 hours.
I have had it happen on 3 of my last 5 batches and within 12 hours on the other 2.
I have used Woodlands 1.5B per mL recommendation and Brewers Friend calculator.
So if I am overpitching, then both of my main resources are way off.

I respect your perspective and do not question your experience. I'm unsure what you're disagreeing with though. I'm not suggesting starters don't work or that fermentation can't be achieved in 6 hours using a starter. I'm pointing out you can make great beer using the simple methods described at the start of this thread, which includes storing un-rinsed slurry and repitching without a starter.

In regards to over-pitching... I'm a fan of expressive, estery yeast strains that are responsive to pitching rates. I find if I have active fermentation in under four hours from weeks-old slurry I lose esters due to over-pitching, while under-pitching (noticed by increased lag phase) produces wonderful estery beer. Note Woodland mentions cell counts varying from 0.5-4B.

 

[brewkinger]

I see your point now that I reviewed.
I was thinking that you were saying that quick start meant overpitching.
If you are only pitching slurry then 12 hour "normal" lag time may be the case depending on your slurry age. I still don't know if I would call it an overpitch if it started faster though.

I think that the magical 4B per mL is the pot of gold at rainbow's end.
It would take a very special harvest of a clean beer to achieve it IMO.
But wouldn't it be cool?

 

[user 141939]

Sorry if this has already been covered.

Do you get any kind of carryover from hops if you don't wash? I ask because I made a mosaic IPA with about 4-5 oz of hops during the boil. I haven't dry hopped but plan to transfer the beer to secondary (before dryhopping) so I can harvest the yeast for a cascade pale ale.

Will the mosaic from the yeast slurry effect the flavor of the cascade pale if I don't wash it?

 

[christyle]

I made an El Dorado single hop DIPA and harvested off that batch for my first attempt, which I dry hopped directly (no bag). When I went to make a starter with it for the next beer, it definitely was noticeable in the kitchen what the hops were in that slurry. I have yet to sample this beer i made with it (still carbing), but I wasn't going to mind as it was a random mix of hops for another IPA. I would say it can definitely have an impact if you dry hopped into the beer you were harvesting yeast from, and decanting a starter may help reduce some, but the hops will still be there. Having been dry hopped may have had something to do with it too, rather than boiled.

 

[user 141939]

Yeah this would just be boiled hops. I suppose I could get the yeast and give it a whiff and decide from there. Mosaic is quite a bit different then cascade so not sure if I want any of that flavor in there. Or idk maybe they work well together.

 

[rhys333]

Mosaic is quite a bit different then cascade so not sure if I want any of that flavor in there. Or idk maybe they work well together.

They do! At least for me anyway. I'm drinking a Mosaic-Cascade pale ale I brewed last month and it's not going to last long.

 

[christyle]

While they are different, if it's an IPA you're using it in, I think it won't be enough to really change too much. If you were going to use it for something light like a wheat or something, it could get in the way of what you were hoping.

 

[Tegra]

Hello:

I suck every oz of beer from the fermenter so have to add some liquid to suspend the yeast.
I used some filtered/boiled/cooled water.... But then thought about what I had read at....

https://eurekabrewing.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/yeast-banking-3-isotonic-sodium-chloride/

Is there value to adding 9g of salt per litre of water to give the yeast the happiest place to rest?

Tom

 

[brewkinger]

As an ON TOPIC thought....

I bottled a batch of Blonde Ale today that had 1.5oz of whole leaf Cascade hops and 1 cup of diced orange zest as part of the recipe.

I took one look at the slurry in the bottom of the bucket and decided that it simply was not going to be worth me trying to harvest the 1272 that was mixed in there.

Lesson learned... Put leaf hops and orange zest (and any other additions) in a hop sock if you plan on trying to harvest your yeast.
It makes life a little (or a lot) simpler.

 

[David_Trucks]

I brewed a red IPA last night, but didn't make the starter until then too. The starter consists of 3 month old 1056 slurry, about 8 ounces worth because I wanted to make sure I had plenty. OG is 1.050 (lower than I expected). Problem is, the starter hasn't taken off yet and it's been about 20 hours now. How long before it should start up? How long will my wort be safe in its fermenter before adding the yeast? Here's a pic of the starter in a growler: View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1434924278.488278.jpg

 

[brewkinger]

Describe your recipe for the starter wort.
If it were me, I'd pitch that slurry now to get the colony going.
It may lag for a while, but at least it's in the red IPA

 

[David_Trucks]

Describe your recipe for the starter wort.
If it were me, I'd pitch that slurry now to get the colony going.
It may lag for a while, but at least it's in the red IPA

The starter wort is a watered down sample of the beer. I'm afraid that the yeast is passed and I'd be wasting it in the beer, then have to pitch a new pack on top of it. That's why I'm holding out.

 

[David_Trucks]

Well I pitched the lagging starter. Fingers crossed that I harvested the yeast correctly and it is still alive and there was enough in there.

 

[helterscelter]

Well I pitched the lagging starter. Fingers crossed that I harvested the yeast correctly and it is still alive and there was enough in there.

Some of my starters can take 3 to 7 days before they start showing signs of life, especially if the yeast is really old (or from my frozen "bank")

very interested to see how yours turns out.

 

[David_Trucks]

Some of my starters can take 3 to 7 days before they start showing signs of life, especially if the yeast is really old (or from my frozen "bank")



very interested to see how yours turns out.

Just checked on the fermenter this morning and it's bubbling pretty well. Never saw signs of life in the starter, but it seems to be doing fine regardless. Maybe next time I'll just skip the starter step and pitch straight into the fermenter. Thanks for the advice brewkinger.

 

[christyle]

It sounds like you're expecting instant results on this. How long was it in the actual starter, because it sounds like about an hour or two from what youre saying.

 

[David_Trucks]

It sounds like you're expecting instant results on this. How long was it in the actual starter, because it sounds like about an hour or two from what youre saying.

It was 20 hours when I first posted (I said that) and about 27 hours when I decided to just pitch the yeast. My biggest concern was more that I had wort sitting there with a bigger likelihood of infection happening.

 

[christyle]

My mistake, it sounded like you had just brewed and were expecting your starter to have activity in 2-3 hours. I usually give my starters at least 24, and even then it doesn't seem like there's much activity. My last one was about a month or two old sample and it seemed like there was nothing, pitched it and it took off in a couple hours in the wort. Sounds like yours is fine.

 

[David_Trucks]

My mistake, it sounded like you had just brewed and were expecting your starter to have activity in 2-3 hours. I usually give my starters at least 24, and even then it doesn't seem like there's much activity. My last one was about a month or two old sample and it seemed like there was nothing, pitched it and it took off in a couple hours in the wort. Sounds like yours is fine.

Yeah, sounds like mine is doing the same. This is my first time using harvested yeast that was more than a few weeks old.

 

[Twang]

If I make a larger than needed yeast starter and want to save some of the yeast for a future batch. What is a good estimation for the yeast cell count/density for the yeast slurry (after decanting most of the liquid off)?

 

[tagz]

1.5 B per ml

 

[brewkinger]

It was 20 hours when I first posted (I said that) and about 27 hours when I decided to just pitch the yeast. My biggest concern was more that I had wort sitting there with a bigger likelihood of infection happening.

My mistake, it sounded like you had just brewed and were expecting your starter to have activity in 2-3 hours. I usually give my starters at least 24, and even then it doesn't seem like there's much activity. My last one was about a month or two old sample and it seemed like there was nothing, pitched it and it took off in a couple hours in the wort. Sounds like yours is fine.

I've actually seen this kind of thing before depending on the yeast and the size and gravity of the starter, I have put it on stir plate and it is done and crashed in under 24 hours.

 

[brewkinger]

1.5 B per ml

Yup.. this is a fine starting estimate.
I would actually personally skew more towards 2B per mL only because there is no trub involved and the yeast is clean to start with.
Now if I use a slurry, I tend to stay at the 1.5 only because it is a safety net for me.
Woodland mentioned in his blog that a 50% over/under pitch would barely be noticeable anyway.

 

[Tegra]

Any comments of adding .9% salt to make the storage medium isotonic?
(Most of this saline would be decanted before pitching so would not "salt" the wort)

 

[brewkinger]

Any comments of adding .9% salt to make the storage medium isotonic?
(Most of this saline would be decanted before pitching so would not "salt" the wort)

Biologically speaking, the process is spot on.
Normal saline (0.9% concentration) is used in the health care field simply for that reason. It matches the normal isotonic characteristics of the blood, so it hydrates without causing problems.

 

[jaydlaw]

Could someone help. This is my first time attempting to save yeast for repitching and I'm not exactly sure what I have here. How much yeast am I looking at, and how much would I need of it for a 5 gal batch without a starter? these are qt containers i believe. According to Mrmalty i need about 80 ml, but i am not sure if the amount of yeast is sufficient by looking at it.

View attachment 1435525616394.jpg

 

[brewkinger]

1 quart = 946.353mL

I would estimate 600mL and 650mL of yeast slurry in those jars.

Between 1 and 1.5 billion yeast cells per mL

So 80mL of that slurry would yield 80-120 billion cells which is not enough to pitch in a normal gravity <1.055 ale.

80mL of that slurry WOULD make an excellent starter though.

Very clean looking slurry btw, great job!!

 

[Artifishal]

1 quart = 946.353mL



I would estimate 600mL and 650mL of yeast slurry in those jars.



Between 1 and 1.5 billion yeast cells per mL



So 80mL of that slurry would yield 80-120 billion cells which is not enough to pitch in a normal gravity <1.055 ale.



80mL of that slurry WOULD make an excellent starter though.



Very clean looking slurry btw, great job!!

Brewkinger? I have the same issue as him on a regular basis. Let's say I don't get around to making the slurry and just want to pitch what I have on hand from my last batch (usually about a week or two old), which is very similar looking to that. I also use the mr.malty app and it usually calls for around a quarter cup of slurry.

My question is, can I just stick a (sanitized of course) 1/4 cup ladle down into my jar (I use wide mouth jars) and scoop it out and put it into my conical? Also, since that doesn't seem to be enough from what you and others say, would it hurt to double it? Triple it? I don't want to do too much, but don't get around to making starters sometimes as I just brew on a spur of the moments notice usually since I have two young boys running around.

 

[jaydlaw]

1 quart = 946.353mL

I would estimate 600mL and 650mL of yeast slurry in those jars.

Between 1 and 1.5 billion yeast cells per mL

So 80mL of that slurry would yield 80-120 billion cells which is not enough to pitch in a normal gravity <1.055 ale.

80mL of that slurry WOULD make an excellent starter though.

Very clean looking slurry btw, great job!!

Thanks. it came off of a saison i just bottled. saisonsteins monster was the yeast. it went from OG 1.052 to FG 1.004 in less than i week. I figured it deserved a reuse.
I plugged the figures into mrmalty again, this time with a 1.3b per ml count with a 10% non yeast and i get 205 ml (7 ounces) for a 1.060 og.

I appreciate the reply.