Silicone tubing problems..

[SOBrewing]

So I built my new stand a few months back and everything had been great until today. I got to looking at the silicone hoses and they are all trashed with only about 6 batches ran on them. At 2.65 a foot this is ridiculous and I can't find anybody else having the same issues so I am wondering what I am doing wrong. The cracking is on the kettle side AND the pump side so it's not flame heat like I had initially thought. After brew day they get hot water ran through them then soaked in a bucket of starsan for a couple hours. Any ideas?

 

[Bigfly]

Mine have a lot more miles on them than yours and don't look anywhere near as bad. I run PBW through them and rinse with clear water. I do not use Starsan solution on mine though.

 

[jimmayhugh]

Starsan makes the hoses brittle. I had a similar problem with my silicone blow-ff tube in starsan.

 

[day_trippr]

Jeeze, those are nasty looking hoses. Half my hoses are at least three years old now and they don't look anything like that.

I also never use Star San on my brew rig (what's the point?) but do recirculate a few gallons of ~150°F standard PBW mix through the pumps/kettle valves/autosparge/hoses for a half hour, then dump it in a bucket and soak my 400 micron SS hop spider in it (friggin' miraculous results) while running rinse water through the rig...

Cheers!

 

[beermanpete]

It looks like the hose barbs on your cam-locks are larger than mine and are stretching the tubing quite a bit. Maybe a fitting with a smaller diameter hose bard would help.

 

[day_trippr]

The fittings look like Brewhardware.com "high flow" style - same as I use with generic 1/2" thick wall silicone tubing.
I even add worm clamps and the hoses don't look anything like the OPs - closer to pristine, actually.
There's something else going on. As I've never used Star San on my brew rig hoses I'm suspecting that's it...

Cheers!

 

[seatazzz]

+1 to the don't use Starsan in your silicone hoses. Those hoses look like the tail end of my blowoff setup that sits in a growler of starsan as well. My hoses are the braided nylon ones and they only get starsan run through them if I'm using them to transfer to the keg. Afterwards get a good long runthrough with what's left in the HLT.

 

[SOBrewing]

They are the high flow from brewhardware and I've not heard of anyone else having problems with the diameter so I am definitely leaning toward starsan being the issue. Hopefully I can cut the ends off and salvage the rest of the hoses but I'm pretty doubtful they are going to be in much better shape when I try to stretch them over the barbs.

 

[JDXX1971]

Yeah mine dont do this either, nor do I soak them in Starsan. I am starting to see a pattern here, I am assuming the Starsan soak is the culprit at this point.

Hopefully I can cut the ends off and salvage the rest of the hoses but I'm pretty doubtful they are going to be in much better shape when I try to stretch them over the barbs.

Maybe the ends of the hoses a more susceptible, and you will have good luck with salvaging them.

 

[IslandLizard]

Where did you buy those silicone hoses? I'd take it up with the vendor. Maybe these come from C. and are low quality.

My silicone hoses are also stretched over the Camlock Hi Flo's single barb, and clamped. Been like that for over 7 years. I see a little evidence of surface tearing, put they are certainly not falling apart any time soon. I pump boiling PBW, reinforced with NaOH, through for a few hours for thorough cleaning every few (5-10) brews. They also get a short soak in Starsan before I hang them up to dry. Mine are definitely brownish from use.

I just remembered, in the past I used to keep them submerged under Starsan between uses, but they get a white chalk-ish appearance after a week or so, so I stopped doing that. I've never had or seen any tearing on mine like yours do.

 

[ESBrewer]

Google search claims that silicone is not completely resistant to effects of phosphoric acid (StarSan is diluted PA mainly) and the quality of the tubing in question could be important here. In a short term use, my tubing seems to be fine even if soaked extensively in StarSan but maybe poor quality silicone / long term use would be different.

 

[kh54s10]

Are you mixing the Starsan at a ratio of 1 ounce to 5 gallons of water? Also it is acid. It works in a minute. Letting you silicone hoses sit in it for a couple of hours !?!?!?

That or bad hoses. Or, a combination of all.

 

[govner1]

It looks like the hose barbs on your cam-locks are larger than mine and are stretching the tubing quite a bit. Maybe a fitting with a smaller diameter hose bard would help.

^^^^This! I’d also suggest the cam locks with longer ends that go further into the tubing. Less stress on the ends and allows for a clamp. For those I’d suggest Oetikers.

 

[V-Fib]

My silicone hoses are less than 1 year old but I have left them sit in star san for over a 72 hour period and just hung them to dry. They look and feel new still.

 

[aprichman]

It's got to be a production issue at the hose supplier, most likely cheap hoses from China IMO.

 

[IslandLizard]

^^^^This! I’d also suggest the cam locks with longer ends that go further into the tubing. Less stress on the ends and allows for a clamp. For those I’d suggest Oetikers.

Those original long barb Camlocks badly restrict flow, especially at the 1/2" size. The bore isn't even 1/4 inch.

Many of us use those short single barb Hi-Flow models, probably made by machining down the threads. For that reason I doubt they can be much wider, unless the barb itself has a much higher profile, thus ruining the hose.

I do agree the first time I was a bit nervous about the amount of stretch needed, but have had no issues.

 

[lablover]

I'd agree, it looks like you might be over-stretching them. Try a little larger tubing and a gentle clamp like the Oetiker.

 

[Dcpcooks]

If you feel the need to sanitize your hot side gear( I do not) then I’d reduce your contact time with star San. It only needs a 1 min of contact time followed by an air dry to be effective.

 

[MaxStout]

I had some bad silicone tubing I used on a CO2 Harvester. The short length connecting the two jars developed a crack. The tubing wasn't bent sharply, perhaps a 3" radius, and it never touched anything sharp. The Starsan that flowed through it was in contact only a short time. I discovered the crack after fermentation was complete, making me wonder how much air got inside. In any case, it was an example of what I believe to be a bad run of tubing. Manufacturing defect.

 

[jimmayhugh]

I just remembered, in the past I used to keep them submerged under Starsan between uses, but they get a white chalk-ish appearance after a week or so, so I stopped doing that. I've never had or seen any tearing on mine like yours do.

That "white chalk-ish appearance" is the silicone tubing breaking down. I used to put my silicone blowoff tubing directly into starsan in a bottle, and the "white chalk-ish appearance" and brittleness showed up after prolonged exposure. I now do pressurized fermentation with a spunding valve, so it's no longer an issue.

It doesn't matter where the tubing is made (I get mine from brewhardware.com), extended exposure to starsan will eventually degrade it.

 

[SOBrewing]

Seems like the consensus is still Starsan. Ill definitely be avoiding that from here on out. Still seems really fast to go from new to falling apart that quickly but it is what it is.

 

[govner1]

I disagree. Just pulled a piece of tubing out of StarSan that I’d overlooked for ten days. No issues. I do routinely flush my entire system(pump, CFC,lines)w/ B-Brite after each brew day followed by a rinse w/ hot water, then a final rinse w/ SaniClean.
I do flush everything w/ StarSan at the beginning of a brew day.

 

[IslandLizard]

That "white chalk-ish appearance" is the silicone tubing breaking down. I used to put my silicone blowoff tubing directly into starsan in a bottle, and the "white chalk-ish appearance" and brittleness showed up after prolonged exposure. I now do pressurized fermentation with a spunding valve, so it's no longer an issue.

It doesn't matter where the tubing is made (I get mine from brewhardware.com), extended exposure to starsan will eventually degrade it.

I used to keep them under Starsan for a few hours after brew day. That "chalking" appeared after accidental prolonged submersion in Starsan, like 3-5 weeks or so, I simply forgot to pull them out. I scrubbed the white haze off, and pumped hot PBW through them. I see no degradation whatsoever. No brittleness either.

I disagree. Just pulled a piece of tubing out of StarSan that I’d overlooked for ten days. No issues. I do routinely flush my entire system(pump, CFC,lines)w/ B-Brite after each brew day followed by a rinse w/ hot water, then a final rinse w/ SaniClean.
I do flush everything w/ StarSan at the beginning of a brew day.

I'm with you on that, I don't think it's the Starsan per se, unless the tubing the OP uses is not Starsan resistant, which may be the case.

I keep a small container filled with Starsan with short pieces of vinyl tubing used as adapters, silicone stoppers, racking cane inverters, oxygenation stones, and a 3" piece of that 1/2" thick walled silicone hose. That piece of silicone hose must have been under Starsan for over 6 years by now, except for short uses in between, when bottling or filling growlers.
That piece is as pliable and transparent as a new hose while all the pieces of vinyl tubing are opaque, but will clear upon drying, and many plastic pieces have lost some of their color.

On a side note, those silicone hoses I use are the Platinum cured type I got about 7 years ago.

 

[SOBrewing]

What do you think it is?

 

[IslandLizard]

What do you think it is?

I think it's inferior quality tubing. The tubing being just brittle, containing lots of filler material, and less silicone, or was manufactured/cured improperly. The C. factor.

But to eliminate the possibility the tubing is being overstretched, I would like to know the diameter of [edit] your hi-flo barbs, measured on the tops of the ridge.

Sorry, I didn't realize you are the OP.
If you got the tubing also from Bobby, I'd contact him, he's an awesome guy and stands behind his products. I'm sure he'd like to know if something is awry.

 

[SOBrewing]

Well I just cut the ends off and stretched the new ends over the barbs and they look fine so maybe the hoses are salvageable. I don't know the OD of the barb but they are the hi flow from brewhardware.com that many people use so now I'm leaning more toward poor quality silicone. They only cracked at the stretch points. What's a good source if I have to replace these after a couple more brews. I'm definitely not going to buy more from the brew shop I got these from.

 

[MaxStout]

Well I just cut the ends off and stretched the new ends over the barbs and they look fine so maybe the hoses are salvageable. I don't know the OD of the barb but they are the hi flow from brewhardware.com that many people use so now I'm leaning more toward poor quality silicone. They only cracked at the stretch points. What's a good source if I have to replace these after a couple more brews. I'm definitely not going to buy more from the brew shop I got these from.

Is there a burr on the outermost barb that could have cut into the inside of the tubing, causing it to break off?

 

[IslandLizard]

Generic brew shop tubing... I think that's your problem, and your answer.

I'm pretty sure Bobby's (Brewhardware) silicone tubing is high quality, like all his products. He used to brag about the clarity.
Bargainfittings.com is another reputable source and also affordably priced.

 

[milldoggy]

Reinforced silicon is the way to go. Yes is cost a bunch, buy once, cry once. Check for sale, occasionally someone buys a crap.load and sells it for a good price

 

[govner1]

I think it's inferior quality tubing. The tubing being just brittle, containing lots of filler material, and less silicone, or was manufactured/cured improperly. The C. factor.

But to eliminate the possibility the tubing is being overstretched, I would like to know the diameter of [edit] your hi-flo barbs, measured on the tops of the ridge.

Sorry, I didn't realize you are the OP.
If you got the tubing also from Bobby, I'd contact him, he's an awesome guy and stands behind his products. I'm sure he'd like to know if something is awry.

If it’s the StarSan it is from really extended exposure. I still think you also need to look at the size of your fittings VS the tubing diameter.

 

[mongoose33]

I used to keep them under Starsan for a few hours after brew day. That "chalking" appeared after accidental prolonged submersion in Starsan, like 3-5 weeks or so, I simply forgot to pull them out. I scrubbed the white haze off, and pumped hot PBW through them. I see no degradation whatsoever. No brittleness either.

I'm with you on that, I don't think it's the Starsan per se, unless the tubing the OP uses is not Starsan resistant, which may be the case.

I keep a small container filled with Starsan with short pieces of vinyl tubing used as adapters, silicone stoppers, racking cane inverters, oxygenation stones, and a 3" piece of that 1/2" thick walled silicone hose. That piece of silicone hose must have been under Starsan for over 6 years by now, except for short uses in between, when bottling or filling growlers.
That piece is as pliable and transparent as a new hose while all the pieces of vinyl tubing are opaque, but will clear upon drying, and many plastic pieces have lost some of their color.

On a side note, those silicone hoses I use are the Platinum cured type I got about 7 years ago.

I've had both the clear vinyl tubing and silicone tubing develop issues. The vinyl tubing became slimy, the silicone developed the white haze on it as you describe above.

I still sanitize tubing w/ Star-San, but it's just a dip and a drain. No long-term soaking. Frankly, they don't need more than a dip unless they're not cleaned properly--and if not, then they need to be....cleaned properly.

 

[mongoose33]

I'd agree, it looks like you might be over-stretching them. Try a little larger tubing and a gentle clamp like the Oetiker.

Where are you getting the larger Oetiker clamps? I have the larger ones from Brewhardware and they are not large enough to go over 1/2" silicone tubing stretched over a barb.

 

[IslandLizard]

Reinforced silicon is the way to go. Yes is cost a bunch, buy once, cry once. Check for sale, occasionally someone buys a crap.load and sells it for a good price

Do those stretch over the hi-flo barbs, like Big-C? Doesn't the fiber reinforcement prevent dimensional change?
Or do you compress it lengthwise a little so it can slip over the barb?

I remember a guy on here selling lots of it a while ago. All different lengths, probably remnants.

 

[milldoggy]

Do those stretch over the hi-flo barbs, like Big-C? Doesn't the fiber reinforcement prevent dimensional change?
Or do you compress it lengthwise a little so it can slip over the barb?

I remember a guy on here selling lots of it a while ago. All different lengths, probably remnants.

Fits fine, I use both the original hand made versions (I ground the threads off an elbow) and the new factory made ones.

 

[beermanpete]

Those original long barb Camlocks badly restrict flow, especially at the 1/2" size. The bore isn't even 1/4 inch.

Many of us use those short single barb Hi-Flow models, probably made by machining down the threads. For that reason I doubt they can be much wider, unless the barb itself has a much higher profile, thus ruining the hose.

I do agree the first time I was a bit nervous about the amount of stretch needed, but have had no issues.

I know this a tangent to the original post but what is the need for the high flow fittings? I end up using the valves to restrict the flow to 1 gpm or less depending on the particular step in the brewing process. At this flow rate I could use 1/4" tubing and still would need to restrict the flow.

 

[SOBrewing]

For me on recirculation and gathering running there is no benefit, however for transferring from hlt to mt I want it to move as fast as possible. Maybe it still doesn't make a difference but what's the point of using 1/2 id tubing if you're only going to choke it down at the connections?

 

[govner1]

Where are you getting the larger Oetiker clamps? I have the larger ones from Brewhardware and they are not large enough to go over 1/2" silicone tubing stretched over a barb.

I have a large variety of sizes and don’t recall which source for the really large ones. Let me research & I’ll get the info to you.

 

[IslandLizard]

I know this a tangent to the original post but what is the need for the high flow fittings? I end up using the valves to restrict the flow to 1 gpm or less depending on the particular step in the brewing process. At this flow rate I could use 1/4" tubing and still would need to restrict the flow.

Why hi-flo fittings?
To reduce resistance and maximize volume. For transferring liquids, as @SOBrewing said. For whirlpooling, you need to pump high volume to get enough velocity at the exit nozzle. Also for chilling (plate chiller/CFC).

The difference is remarkable.

 

[beermanpete]

Why hi-flo fittings?
To reduce resistance and maximize volume. For transferring liquids, as @SOBrewing said. For whirlpooling, you need to pump high volume to get enough velocity at the exit nozzle. Also for chilling (plate chiller/CFC).

The difference is remarkable.

Got it. Thanks. I don't whirlpool or use the pump during runoff so I don't need the high flow rate. If I try the whirlpool technique I will keep this in mind.

 

[whovous]

It seems unlikely that the problem is only StarSan if only the ends of the tubing is degraded. The problem should be visible elsewhere.