Secondary Fermentation necessary??

[kfgolfer]

Hi All,
Was wondering if this is really necessary? Is the purpose of Secondary to clear the beer? my primary has all the junk at the bottom and stuff floating around, so should when I rack bottling bucked, I should obviously not syphon the stuff at the bottom but what about stuff floating around?

then (sorry for the long thread), once in bottling bucket, should I let it sit for a while to have more of it drop to the bottom? now, here comes the really stupid question if there is stuff on bottom when I bottle, wont I get that in my bottles when you press down on the bottling wand? Help out a newbie??

 

[homebrewer_99]

It's much simpler if your secondary was a carboy.

 

[loopmd]

It's not necessary, but there is a differance. I brewed for a couple of years without a "secondary". I loved my beer, it was good. After a couple of years, I decided to invest 20 or so bucks in a glass carboy. It definately makes a differance comparing the 2, but no, it's not necessary.


loop

 

[Yooper]

then (sorry for the long thread), once in bottling bucket, should I let it sit for a while to have more of it drop to the bottom? now, here comes the really stupid question if there is stuff on bottom when I bottle, wont I get that in my bottles when you press down on the bottling wand? Help out a newbie??

I always use a secondary, but as the others said it's not necessary. Just make sure you rack above the gunk "trub" in the bottom of the bucket.

Don't let it sit in the bottling bucket- you'll prime (add sugar or malt) in the beer in the bottling bucket, to enable the beer to carbonate in the bottle. If you do this and let it sit, the sugar will ferment out and you won't carbonate in the bottle. You'd have flat beer.

I don't understand the last question about the bottling wand. You add 5 ounces (or so) of corn sugar in 2 cups of boiling water and stir to dissolve. Let cool and put the sugar water into your bottling bucket. You siphon the beer above the stuff on the bottom into your bottling bucket. Put the tip of the tubing on the very bottom so that you don't splash as the beer transfers. Let the beer swirl around, so it mixes up with the sugar. Use your bottling wand on the tubing to fill your bottles by pressing down on the wand in the bottom of your bottle. When the bottle is full, lift the wand. It's spring loaded, so when you don't press the beer doesnt' flow. Let me know if I'm not explaining this well.

Lorena

 

[kfgolfer]

you explained it perfectly!!! Told you it was a dumb question. After reading what I wrote, it didn't make sense to me either, I totally wrote it wrong.

I guess the mistake I made is that I have a glass carboy already and I used it for my primary... I still have the plastic bucked. maybe nest time I'll use the plastic for primary and the glass for secondary...or just get two glass carboys..

this leads to another question. what is the usual timeline here? 1 week primary and 1 week secondary for your usual Ale?

 

[rdwj]

Typical is 1 week primary, 2 weeks in the secondary and 3 weeks in the bottle. Those are pretty much minimums. If it's still bubbling in the primary, don't transfer it.

What are the sizes of your bucket and carboy? You want something around 6.5 gallons for a primary and 5 gallons for a secondary - but you don't really want plastic as a secondary - unless it's a better bottle

 

[kfgolfer]

both the plastic bucket and glass carboy are both 6.5 gallons. so now that I'm only going to do a primary, you think I should leave it in there for 3 weeks?? seems long, but you guys know best....

 

[loopmd]

both the plastic bucket and glass carboy are both 6.5 gallons. so now that I'm only going to do a primary, you think I should leave it in there for 3 weeks?? seems long, but you guys know best....

Nope. Too long on the trub might cause some "off" flavors. You should just bottle away.


loop

 

[RoaringBrewer]

Not necessary, as noted above, but highly suggested...

General Rule (1-2-3):

1 Week-10 Days in Primary (or tecnically until fermentation has stopped by measuring with a hydrometer)

2 Weeks in Secondary to clear [often secondary is called a clearing vessel, as opposed to fermenter] (longer than 2 weeks will not harm the beer; only help really)

As noted above, prime with 5oz. corn sugar into 2 cup boiling water and combine in bottling bucket. Bottle. Some yeast will still be in suspension (hence how it carbonates the beer) and fall out in the bottle. This should be minimal if you use a secondary and wait long enough, however you should still have SOME b/c we aren't filtering it out of our beers. It doesn't hurt you, most people just don't drink the last 1/2" of beer from the bottle and try not to shake before pouring obviously. If you don't use a secondary you will have noticably more sediment in the bottle.

3 weeks minimum to bottle condition. It should be carbed in 7-14 days, but most of the time, the longer in the bottle the better (general rule of thumb). It will be more clear and the flavors will mature over time for your average ale. Of course there is a "shelf life" for most beers, but most should last several months-year. Heavier beers (barleywine, imperial stouts, etc.) may be at their best after 1 year + in the bottle.

EDIT: You can definitely make good beers without a secondary. One of my best to date was done without a secondary, however I did bottle condition it for 6-8 weeks prior to drinking including at least 2-3 in the fridge. So, even if you skip secondary, you aren't going to get your best beer until its really ready (6 weeks minimum).

 

[Evan!]

Hi All,
Was wondering if this is really necessary? Is the purpose of Secondary to clear the beer? my primary has all the junk at the bottom and stuff floating around, so should when I rack bottling bucked, I should obviously not syphon the stuff at the bottom but what about stuff floating around?

then (sorry for the long thread), once in bottling bucket, should I let it sit for a while to have more of it drop to the bottom? now, here comes the really stupid question if there is stuff on bottom when I bottle, wont I get that in my bottles when you press down on the bottling wand? Help out a newbie??

• Secondary isn't necessary if you like gunk floating around in your cloudy beer.
• If, however, you like clearer beer with less gunk, you should let it clarify in secondary for at least two weeks.
• No, you should not siphon the stuff at the bottom; the stuff floating around will be transferred to secondary, but after two weeks, that stuff should be settled out.
• They make redirection caps for your racking wand that will help prevent the transfer of gunk that has settled on the bottom. I never rack without it.
• You should not use your bottling bucket as your secondary. The best method is to rack into secondary, let it settle for 2+ weeks, then rack that into your bottling bucket. Then add priming sugar and bottle immediately. If you bottle the beer directly from your secondary vessel, you will indeed get more junk from the bottom than you'd want.
• RDWHAHB. Good luck!

 

[Evan!]

Nope. Too long on the trub might cause some "off" flavors. You should just bottle away.


loop

3 weeks probably isn't enough time to do any real damage.

 

[kfgolfer]

I know someone earlier said not to, but at this point, would it hurt if I did a secondary into a plastic bucked instead of glass?? I'd hate to go spend more money on a second glass carboy (with wife would probably kill me)...

and if Yes, do I just put the top on and put in the spout at the top like in primary??

next time I'll do the opposite and primary in plastic, secondary in glass....

Many thanks for everyone's advice....

 

[Orfy]

It would be better to do a primary in plastic than no primary at all.

In theory glass is best but I'm not sure anyone could do a taste test and tell if it'd been done in glass or plastic. (Save the money and buy more malt!)

It'll be a good brew just due to the thought and care you are taking.

 

[Monk]

I don't do a secondary at all. I use irish moss in the boil and let the ale sit in primary for 2-3 weeks. It's crystal clear and tastes great. That's not the only way to do it, or the best way, but I've had good experiences with it.

Like Orfy said, you could secondary in plastic and it'll be fine, so long as you siphon quietly and keep it air tight. If it's still bubbling a tiny bit, the Co2 it makes will keep the oxygen out and keep it fresh.

Good luck,
monk

 

[kfgolfer]

Can I use a plastic bucket for my secondary instead of going out and buying another glass carboy?? Then would I put the lid on and add the fermentation stopper (sorry, don't knowthe technical name for it) at the top?

 

[bikebryan]

Can I use a plastic bucket for my secondary instead of going out and buying another glass carboy?? Then would I put the lid on and add the fermentation stopper (sorry, don't knowthe technical name for it) at the top?

Can you do this? Yes. Would I? No. I'd reverse the process.

I'd primary in the PLASTIC and secondary in the GLASS.

Think about it; it will be in secondary much longer than in the primary, and the ferment will be much more agressive during the primary period.

If you primary in plastic, that shorter, more agressive primary will push out gasses trying to get in, and what little that might permeate when fermentation slows down have very little time to do it as you'll be moving the beer to a new container shortly. Doing your secondary in glass, which is impermeable to gas, prevents possible spoilage from O2 leaching in while it sits there for a few weeks.

If you reverse this, you end up putting your beer in a plastic vessel where there will be little if any fermentation, but it will allow some amount of O2 to permeate as it sits there for a few weeks.

So, if you are using Plastic and Glass, using Plastic for Primary and Glass for Secondary is a better combination.

 

[david_42]

And the bottom line is ... 6 weeks minimum - brew to drinking.

 

[Monk]

Can you do this? Yes. Would I? No. I'd reverse the process.

I'd primary in the PLASTIC and secondary in the GLASS.

Think about it; it will be in secondary much longer than in the primary, and the ferment will be much more agressive during the primary period.

If you primary in plastic, that shorter, more agressive primary will push out gasses trying to get in, and what little that might permeate when fermentation slows down have very little time to do it as you'll be moving the beer to a new container shortly. Doing your secondary in glass, which is impermeable to gas, prevents possible spoilage from O2 leaching in while it sits there for a few weeks.

If you reverse this, you end up putting your beer in a plastic vessel where there will be little if any fermentation, but it will allow some amount of O2 to permeate as it sits there for a few weeks.

So, if you are using Plastic and Glass, using Plastic for Primary and Glass for Secondary is a better combination.

He already has the beer in the glass, dude. He's asking if he can throw it in the plastic for a short time to let it settle. Read the previous posts and you'll see a preview of what you wrote.

monk

 

[Orfy]

Why not rack out of the Primary into the pail. Rinse the carboy and rack back into it for Secondary?

 

[kfgolfer]

Really? can you do that without letting too much O2 ruin the batch?

 

[Orfy]

Just be careful not to splash stuff about. and make sure stuff is clean.

To tell you the truth, I think I'd prefer to do that than leave it in a pail that may not be sealed to well.

I some times secondary in plastic and the beer's still great. (I use screw cap fermenters not pails though)

 

[loopmd]

Really? can you do that without letting too much O2 ruin the batch?

Yes, but every time you do this you run the risk of some sort of contamination. If you take the time to properly sanitize everything, you should be ok.

loop

 

[kfgolfer]

ok, thanks. and it for arguments sake, I happen to just do a secondary into a plastic bucket on this batch only, I would do the same thing as with primary by putting the lid on tight and installing the airlock?? and the best time for the secondary is when just about all the bubbling in the airlock is done in the primary?

 

[Mk010101]

What about racking to a better bottle for a secondary? Yeah it ain't glass, but I would think it is ok for the job, no?

 

[Orfy]

Yes and yes.

No need to worry, it'll turn out fine no matter how you do it.

Have fun and enjoy.

 

[kfgolfer]

Thanks everyone!! Sorry I've been a pain with all my questions... I just want to do everything right and succeed at this hobby...:rockin:

 

[Orfy]

No problems.

The questions are not a pain. I know that I am please that people are willing to answer my question

Home brew is very forgiving. Just make sure you clean and sanitise properly.

 

[bikebryan]

He already has the beer in the glass, dude. He's asking if he can throw it in the plastic for a short time to let it settle. Read the previous posts and you'll see a preview of what you wrote.

monk

I did read his post, and I realize that he is doing his Primary in glass. He was asking if he could use the plastic bucket for Secondary, and if using it for secondary it will be in there for more than " a short time to let it settle." Those of us who use secondaries leave it in there for a lot longer than the time it was in Primary.

I was trying to give them and idea of a better way to do it.

 

[frothy]

If nothing else I like using a secondary because it frees up my primary for another brew I use a corny keg with the gas post being used with a blow off tube & it's very useful.

Matt