Schwarzbier dark malt percentage?

[AlexKay]

Why is 19th century "traditional" while after WWII is "modern"? (And by 19th century, you could be talking 1894, for example, for Spaten Helles.)

As for undermodified malts ... They. Are. Just. Worse. They're a curiosity for brewers who are interested in the history of brewing, but historical re-creation is really the only reason to use them. Decoction? Single, maybe (though I'm not convinced) -- there's at least an argument to be made that Maillard reactions change the wort. More than that, again, is for history buffs but not brewers.

But yes, if it's a lager with a clean profile, relatively little roast (and smooth), some bitterness, and sessionable, call it a Schwarzbier, regardless of the ingredient list. If your friends (or customers) know what to expect when they hear "Schwarzbier," you only confuse things by calling it a German-American Dark Lager, or whatever.

 

[Protos]

Why is 19th century "traditional" while after WWII is "modern"?

I really don't know why, because I've never heard of such a definition before.
Traditional brewing is distinguished from modernized (or bastardised) brewing not along the World Wars timelines but along the lines of the globalization process. As soon as a settled local brewing tradition is incorporated into a broader business context and undergoes significant change in technology it's not traditional anymore, even if the old exotic names are still being exploited. The story of the English Real Ales gives much to the understanding of the process. And the evolution of the so called "Norwegian Farmhouse Ales" even more so.
The Schwarzbier in question was pretty much traditional even in the 1980s, so long past the WWII. Most probably, it stays so in Germany even now (although this requires some further investigation).

 

[TheMadKing]

One of the best schwartzbiers I've had was a czech pils recipe with a dash of Munich and sinamar for color.

I'm a huge fan of sinamar for schwartzbier

 

[Miraculix]

One of the best schwartzbiers I've had was a czech pils recipe with a dash of Munich and sinamar for color.

I'm a huge fan of sinamar for schwartzbier

Never tried it. Is it really completely neutral in taste?

 

[TheMadKing]

Never tried it. Is it really completely neutral in taste?

No its not completely neutral. You can taste that SOMETHING is going on. But it certainly is much less than using carafa special

 

[Miraculix]

No its not completely neutral. You can taste that SOMETHING is going on. But it certainly is much less than using carafa special

Sounds like optimised for a Schwazbier!

 

[TheMadKing]

Sounds like optimised for a Schwazbier!

I think weyerman actually describes it as exactly that somewhere on their website

 

[kylewag]

Random Cooking Site For Girls says you must throw in Potatoes so I did!!!".

Just for fun I looked up brewing with potatoes - Brewing with Potatoes - Brew Your Own .
I don’t think I’ll be trying that anytime soon. But, maybe others have had good luck with that. I would make a joke about salad beer but that’s probably already a thing somewhere.

 

[beerisyummy]

I had my first Köstritzer a few weeks ago and am totally hooked, so this thread is great as I definitely plan to attempt one. Fwiw, Zainasheff/Palmer Brewing Classic Styles sez:
OG 1.046 - 1.052
FG 1.010 - 1.016
22 - 32 IBU
17 - 30 SRM
4.4 - 5.4% ABV

They give two recipes. One is described as "on the edge of the style with almost too much roasted malt character," but it's a medal-winner and everyone likes it. It goes like this:
4.6 lb continental Pilsener malt
6.1 lb Munich malt
6 oz 40°L Crystal (AHAH!!!!)
6 oz 420°L Chocolate
3.5 oz 500°L Roasted Barley
3.5 oz 430°L Carafa Special II

And then the more "traditional" one, described as "very similar to Köstritzer" is:

9 lb continental Pilsener malt
1 lb Munich malt
11 oz 430°L Carafa Special II

A STI mash @154° is recommended for the first recipe, 151° for the second.
For both, a 90 minute boil, adding 27 IBU of Hallertau for 60 min., another 3 IBU for 20 min., and a half ounce at flameout. Recommended yeasts for both are WLP830, WY2124, Ferments S-23.
Since I enjoy Köstritzer so VERY much I think I will do recipe #2 verbatim, and when I get around to it again, perhaps I will try a tweak or two.

Prosit!

 

[Miraculix]

I had my first Köstritzer a few weeks ago and am totally hooked, so this thread is great as I definitely plan to attempt one. Fwiw, Zainasheff/Palmer Brewing Classic Styles sez:
OG 1.046 - 1.052
FG 1.010 - 1.016
22 - 32 IBU
17 - 30 SRM
4.4 - 5.4% ABV

They give two recipes. One is described as "on the edge of the style with almost too much roasted malt character," but it's a medal-winner and everyone likes it. It goes like this:
4.6 lb continental Pilsener malt
6.1 lb Munich malt
6 oz 40°L Crystal (AHAH!!!!)
6 oz 420°L Chocolate
3.5 oz 500°L Roasted Barley
3.5 oz 430°L Carafa Special II

And then the more "traditional" one, described as "very similar to Köstritzer" is:

9 lb continental Pilsener malt
1 lb Munich malt
11 oz 430°L Carafa Special II

A STI mash @154° is recommended for the first recipe, 151° for the second.
For both, a 90 minute boil, adding 27 IBU of Hallertau for 60 min., another 3 IBU for 20 min., and a half ounce at flameout. Recommended yeasts for both are WLP830, WY2124, Ferments S-23.
Since I enjoy Köstritzer so VERY much I think I will do recipe #2 verbatim, and when I get around to it again, perhaps I will try a tweak or two.

Prosit!

I would be very surprised if I would find out that the Köstritzer guys do late or flame out additions. If you want that specific taste, skip these.

 

[Protos]

Searching through the hobbybrauer.de on the subject of my soon-to-brew Schwarzbier and feeling pain looking how far from their brewing heritage some German homebrewers have strayed with their loads of Crystals, late hoppings and catty hops in traditional styles I met copious references to the TGL 7764 of 1980 and 1987-90, the East German State Standard for Brewing. Surprisingly, it happened to be freely available online. A trove of brewing data on each sort of beer brewed in East Germany. No grists or hopping schedules, unfortunately, but a lot of other useful info. Highly recommended, whether one needs Google Translator to read German or not.

It seems that Ron Pattinson used to propose to systematize and publish the data from this very document on his blog if enough readers were willing to brew the recipes, but just a single reply ensued, so he didn't.