Salted Caramel Pretzel Beer?

[boomtown25]

My girlfriend has wanted me to attempt a Salted Caramel flavored beer. Wondering if the crowd her could all get together and try to formulate something.

As far as the grain bill, I was thinking something in the lines of biscuit and rye may provide a nice pretzel flavor to build on. Add some Crystal 40L for some caramel flavoring.

Have no clue about salt flavor. I assume I can always add salt like they do with a Gose, but from my understanding, salt inhibits yeast activity so not sure how to go about this.

Finally, Doubt I would want a super hoppy beer, but what would play with this style?

Feel feel to trash my idea and add/import your own two sense. Treat it like a group project!!!

 

[cmac62]

Boom, I have never tried to make anything like this, but the idea sounds great. You could even add a little Cacoa to the mix. That said, I would use c60 and maybe some honey malt for the sweetness, and would add the salt as it goes into the bottle or keg to taste, or provide a salt shaker when drinking it. I added the last part because if you bottle, the salt may harm the carbonation.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Try mashing in with a few pretzels! Buy the natural ones without additives/preservatives of course. There is a certain taste that the caustic lye dip gives to pretzel dough that I think is the defining flavor characteristic. You might be able to mash a pretty large proportion if you get the unsalted ones. If I were attempting something like this, that's where I would start.

 

[boomtown25]

Great ideas!!!! Keep em coming!

 

[Jayjay1976]

This idea is really growing on me. I've been thinking about it all afternoon. You know that trick where you simmer full cans of sweetened condensed milk in a crockpot to transform the contents into dulce de Leche (basically caramel sauce) I've been wondering what a dairy product like that would bring to a beer. Hopefully it would provide some unfermentable sugars. Please post updates here on your progress if you decide to brew it. I really hope you do. My wife luuuvs salted caramel, and pretzels too.

 

[Lefou]

Caramel usually contains a portion of cream, but milk products usually don't ferment well - not in beer, at least.

I'd alter the caramel recipe a bit by using lactose, hard butterscotch candy, and a touch of vanilla in the mix.
Treating the brew water with slightly elevated chloride levels would enhance the sweetness perception, but I'd watch the sodium levels.
Adding crushed and powdered pretzel sounds like a great idea. Pilsner, biscuit, and C40/60 as part of the malt mix would be something to consider as well.
Mild noble hops, low IBU, and low to moderate hop-to-gravity ratio (BU:GU) under .4, much like a Marzen or bock would be my plan, too.

 

[Lefou]

Clean ale yeast (WLP001 or US-05) would do, but the extra gravity and ABV of the bock style would mean some extra aging. To keep the beer a bit more sessionable a Munich Dunkel, mild, or brown might be alternative choices, too.

 

[TGFV]

Go with a Scottish ale/ wee heavy style beer

Take your mash (or extract like I do) and give it a good long boil, like 90-110 minutes. This will caramelize some of the malt into unfermentable sugars, and this along with a good dosing off C40-60 will give a great caramel taste. Honey malt is a very small dosage can add to the sensation of sweetness too.

As for the pretzel, you could add biscuit malt aswell, and then salt the water pre bottling or even adding the salt pre fermentation like a gose (should still work well as long as you don't use a crazy amount).

If you want it even sweeter, a very small dosing off lactose can also make the caramel flavours pop.

 

[cmac62]

Go with a Scottish ale/ wee heavy style beer

Take your mash (or extract like I do) and give it a good long boil, like 90-110 minutes. This will caramelize some of the malt into unfermentable sugars, and this along with a good dosing off C40-60 will give a great caramel taste. Honey malt is a very small dosage can add to the sensation of sweetness too.

As for the pretzel, you could add biscuit malt aswell, and then salt the water pre bottling or even adding the salt pre fermentation like a gose (should still work well as long as you don't use a crazy amount).

If you want it even sweeter, a very small dosing off lactose can also make the caramel flavours pop.

really good suggestion. I think the Scottish style would be great with this.

 

[TGFV]

Now I am thinking of making a caramel pretzel wee heavy lol.

Done a salted wee heavy, maybe this time I will add a 1/2tsp caramel and some biscuit malt

 

[boomtown25]

This is getting excited boys (and girls)!

So let's get a run down of what we have developed so far:

Obviously everyone seems to be geared towards a Scottish style ale.
Grain bill appears to be built around the following:
Pilsner
Buscuit
Rye
Honey Malt
Caramel 40L or 60L
Crushed unsalted pretzels
-boil for long boil 9-110 minutes to caramelize some of the sugars
add low IBU hops like noble hops
add some vanilla beans to the boil
Maybe add some butterscotch candy into boil or fermentor
dose with lactose or maybe some condensed milk
add about 1 ounce of himalayan pink salt before bottling (saw this done to a Gose)
Use WLP 001 or US-05

Any tweaks or additions or "don't do that"???

 

[cmac62]

I wouldn't put the vanilla in the boil, most of the flavor are volatile compounds and will vaporize. Add at bottling/kegging with the use of a tincture.

 

[Idrum6969]

I wouldn't put the vanilla in the boil, most of the flavor are volatile compounds and will vaporize. Add at bottling/kegging with the use of a tincture.

Yes. I agree. I've never used vanilla in the boil. Fermenter is a different story. [emoji106]

 

[boomtown25]

Advice heeded!

Recipe base 2.0!:

So let's get a run down of what we have developed so far:

Obviously everyone seems to be geared towards a Scottish style ale.
Grain bill appears to be built around the following:
Pilsner
Buscuit
Rye
Honey Malt
Caramel 40L or 60L
Crushed unsalted pretzels
-boil for long boil 9-110 minutes to caramelize some of the sugars
add low IBU hops like noble hops
add some vanilla beans to the fermentor or possibly by tincture before bottling
Maybe add some butterscotch candy into boil or fermentor
dose with lactose or maybe some condensed milk
add about 1 ounce of himalayan pink salt before bottling (saw this done to a Gose)
Use WLP 001 or US-05

Any possible use of brown sugar in this recipe? My secretary suggested that when I was telling her about the recipe as she said "that is what is used to actually make caramel"

 

[Jayjay1976]

Make sure you use enough crushed pretzels to get that tangy pretzel flavor going, maybe 5-10%? Since I would assume the baking process has already gelatinized the wheat starches, enter flaked wheat into your recipe calc in place of pretzels to work out their impact on gravity, etc.

EDIT: I really like the idea of dropping some vodka-dipped butterscotch hard candies into the fermenter during primary. Maybe use a bag of Werther's original?

 

[Davide57]

Beautiful

 

[Jayjay1976]

Werther's ingredients:
INGREDIENTS: SUGAR, GLUCOSE SYRUP (FROM WHEAT OR CORN), CREAM, CONDENSED WHEY, BUTTER, CANE SUGAR SYRUP, SALT, SOY LECITHIN EMULSIFIER, ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR

So there is some butterfat which *might* affect head retention, but this beer is about flavor so I wouldn't sacrifice that for some foam.

Maybe keg this and serve it on nitro.

 

[mxstar21]

Amoreti makes syrups and purees. They also have a salted caramel syrup.

https://amoretti.com/products/crema-di-salted-caramelsyrup

 

[cmac62]

Boom, with a 90-120 min boil and lactos you may be too sweet. I wouldn't back sweeten with the lactos until you know you need it or not. Also, any kind of simple sugar is going to thin out the finished beer, and I think you would want some body to go with the caramel.

 

[boomtown25]

Worked up a recipe on Beersmith last night at the house and came up with a nice 6% ABV beer with great color and only somewhere in the area of 25 IBUs (I don't have it here at work so don't hold me to the IBUs exactly). I used a schedule (experimenting) with I believe was East Kent Goldings (.5 oz) at 60/20/10. Full disclosure: This is not on my brew schedule any time in the very near future, but have not stopped thinking about it since we started this thread.

 

[bleme]

The 20/10 hops would mess it up for me. When I make a flavored beer, I want hops to take a back seat - usually around 15 IBUs.

 

[boomtown25]

The 20/10 hops would mess it up for me. When I make a flavored beer, I want hops to take a back seat - usually around 15 IBUs.

Just a work in progress- your input is appreciated as I was just throwing that in there. Point is well taken and likely utilized when this comes to fruition.

 

[secretlevel]

Just a work in progress- your input is appreciated as I was just throwing that in there. Point is well taken and likely utilized when this comes to fruition.

Hey @boomtown25, did you ever brew this? I'm going to be adding a can of condensed milk to a stout and I'm curious what your experience was.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Hey @boomtown25, did you ever brew this? I'm going to be adding a can of condensed milk to a stout and I'm curious what your experience was.

Please be sure to report YOUR results! I still want to try this but I need someone else to try it out first!

 

[Rob2010SS]

Just my 2 cents on this one...

1oz salt is a good starting point. This is what I used in a strawberry rhubarb gose 2 attempts ago. This was noticeable but not overly salty. Given the heavier grain bill you're using, it might mask it a bit which will be nice. However, I'd recommend adding it to the boil. I picture it being difficult to get it to dissolve if you add it at bottling. My last gose, I went 1.25oz in the boil for 5 gallons and it did not inhibit fermentation from my perspective.

With the pretzels, that's a subtle flavor. Whatever amount your planning, I'd probably double. Granted, different ingredient with different characteristics, but I did a s'mores stout recently where I used 4 boxes of graham crackers and couldn't pick out the flavor in the end product. Ended up having to use extract. If I were to do it again, I'd probably double the amount of grahams. Again, just opinion.

For the caramel flavor, you might be ok with your grains and the other ingredients. I'm with you on adding the candy to the fermenter, like werther's or something along those lines. I think that'd be interesting to see what happens.

One thing that I saw someone do on social media was use Salted Caramel Crown Royal for the salted caramel flavoring. Not sure if you want to give that a shot because you'll get the whiskey flavor as well but thought it was an interesting approach.

Good luck. Really looking forward to how this comes out for you. I've wanted to do something like this for a while.

 

[Jayjay1976]

One thing that I saw someone do on social media was use Salted Caramel Crown Royal for the salted caramel flavoring. Not sure if you want to give that a shot because you'll get the whiskey flavor as well but thought it was an interesting approach

Oh man I gotta try that! On a side note, I'm pretty sure the crown royal uses artificial flavorings, I dunno why people seem to be so against that in brewing. If anything, use flavorings to supplement the natural ingredients to help them come through.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Oh man I gotta try that! On a side note, I'm pretty sure the crown royal uses artificial flavorings, I dunno why people seem to be so against that in brewing. If anything, use flavorings to supplement the natural ingredients to help them come through.

I'm one of those people that are against it, LOL. I just never like the way they taste. They taste super artificial to me. I just had a Coconut Porter at City Lights Brewing in Milwaukee. I had high hopes as their stuff is usually fantastic. However, just as my other experiences have been with artificial flavoring, there was an unusual burn/tang in the back of your throat after taking a sip. Confirmed with one of the brewers that it was coconut extract. But I tell ya, that beer was selling like crazy when I was there! The rest of the place loved it, and they were packed! So I must be the odd ball hahaha.

 

[Jayjay1976]

So I must be the odd ball hahaha.

You may be odd, but it could be that you're also a supertaster. You should seriously look into that and perhaps consider BJCP certification. The brewing community needs more qualified palates.

Also, I'm curious about your s'mores stout and PB s'mores stout recipes, is there a thread?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Ha, not sure about that, but thanks.

No, there's no thread, but I'd be more than happy to share the recipe and what I did you want. Just let me know.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Ha, not sure about that, but thanks.

No, there's no thread, but I'd be more than happy to share the recipe and what I did you want. Just let me know.

YESS! Send to me via PM or consider starting a thread.

 

[mschoeffler]

Salt the rim of the glass!

 

[bkboiler]

Would be curious about this as well...
I'd lean toward a salted margarita wheat...
Or a caramel Amber ale...
Or a pretzel maerzen...
But honestly trying to combine all three is going to be a lot and it may clash..
I think HBT has recipes for the first two...maybe the last one can be this thread's contribution?

 

[mrdauber64]

A local brewery near me, Garphish Brewing in Bethel, MN, makes a Pretzel Milk Stout(using normal salted pretzels) and a Cinnamon Pretzel Milk Stout(using Cinnamon Pretzels) and both are really good! The flavor of the pretzels really do come through and it doesn't seem to effect the head retention at all. It's one of my favorite beers they make.

 

[KookyBrewsky]

This all sounds delicious.

 

[applescrap]

I cant say for certain but I have heard brewer after brewer say that when they make beers like this or cool ranch doritos or lucky charms ipa etc they put it in the mash. I think you buy a s... ton of salted carmel pretzels, or pretzels and a bunch of jars of idk, carmel ice cream topping and throw them in the mash. I feel strongly that a few pretzels and carmel 40 and some biscuit etc wont make what you want. The thing that will make this what ypu envision is a large amount of salty pretzels and carmel sauce. Perhaps call a brewer who makes one and gleen some tips. You could always add carmel flavoring and mash pretzels. My 2c.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I'm finally going to brew my attempt at a chocolate pretzel stout! Back when this thread was active I picked up Brewer's Best chocolate and peanut butter flavorings but I think I might swap out the pb flavoring for a bag of Werther's late in the boil. I just ordered a 3lb tub of pretzels from Amazon, they are lightly salted according to the reviews so hopefully I won't have to add any to the recipe.

I'm going to keg this so I can adjust the flavor with lactose, then carb it up, condition for a couple of months and then bottle it from the tap before laying them down until next winter.

Grain bill tbd but will be Maris Otter base, lots of biscuit and victory, 60L crystal, black patent for color and I might amp it up with some LME to push it into imperial stout territory. US-05 for the ferment.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Definitely interested in how this comes out! Keep us posted!

 

[Jayjay1976]

Hey quick question, I'm working out my grist and not sure how to include the pretzels in my calc. I'd think they are close enough to gelatinized wheat that I could sub in flaked wheat to predict OG?

 

[Jayjay1976]

Brewed this recipe yesterday. The pretzels were blitzed briefly in a blender working in batches, subbing flaked wheat for the calcs ended up working out, I hit my predicted OG exactly. The victory malt was a great choice, before crushing it smelled like chocolate and pretzels already. The mash was kinda thick but about 45 minutes in the consistency thinned out considerably. Pitched 2 packets of US-05 at 75f after aerating and it's chugging along now in the garage with a heat wrap set to 65f. When the bubbling slows down I'll sneak it up to 75 a few degrees at a time to finish up.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Chocolate pretzel ale
Author: Meeeee

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American Strong Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 6 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.078
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

Hop Utilization Multiplier: 0.98

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.097
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 10.39%
IBU (tinseth): 46.81
SRM (morey): 15.13
Mash pH: 5.24

FERMENTABLES:
7 lb - Finest Maris Otter (32.9%)
3.5 lb - Red Wheat (16.4%)
3.3 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Extra Light - (late addition) (15.5%)
3 lb - Victory (14.1%)
1.75 lb - Flaked Wheat (8.2%) <-pretzels
1.5 lb - Pilsner (7%)
0.75 lb - Château Cara Ruby (3.5%)
0.25 lb - Château Cara Blond (1.2%)
0.25 lb - Special B (1.2%)

HOPS:
37.3 g - Magnum, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.7, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 46.81

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 153 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 8.5 gal, Single infusion

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
2 oz - Cocao Nibs - in 4oz 70% neutral spirit, Time: 0 min, Type: Flavor, Use: Kegging
0.25 each - Vanilla beans - in 2oz Vodka, Time: 0 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Kegging
5.5 g - Calcium Chloride (dihydrate), Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
2 g - Epsom Salt, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
2 g - Gypsum, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
0.8 g - Salt, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
5 ml - Lactic acid, Time: 0 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: Yes
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 54 - 77 F
Fermentation Temp: 64 F
Pitch Rate: 1.25 (M cells / ml / deg P)

PRIMING:
CO2 Level: 3.5 Volumes

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Light colored and malty
Ca2: 60
Mg2: 5
Na: 10
Cl: 95
SO4: 55
HCO3: 0
Water Notes:

Generated by Brewer's Friend - Brewer's Friend | Homebrew Beer Recipes, Calculators & Forum
Date: 2021-03-14 20:24 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2021-03-14 23:23 UTC

 

[mturvey]

Brewed this recipe yesterday. The pretzels were blitzed briefly in a blender working in batches, subbing flaked wheat for the calcs ended up working out, I hit my predicted OG exactly. The victory malt was a great choice, before crushing it smelled like chocolate and pretzels already. The mash was kinda thick but about 45 minutes in the consistency thinned out considerably. Pitched 2 packets of US-05 at 75f after aerating and it's chugging along now in the garage with a heat wrap set to 65f. When the bubbling slows down I'll sneak it up to 75 a few degrees at a time to finish up.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Chocolate pretzel ale
Author: Meeeee

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American Strong Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 6 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.078
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

Hop Utilization Multiplier: 0.98

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.097
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 10.39%
IBU (tinseth): 46.81
SRM (morey): 15.13
Mash pH: 5.24

FERMENTABLES:
7 lb - Finest Maris Otter (32.9%)
3.5 lb - Red Wheat (16.4%)
3.3 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Extra Light - (late addition) (15.5%)
3 lb - Victory (14.1%)
1.75 lb - Flaked Wheat (8.2%) <-pretzels
1.5 lb - Pilsner (7%)
0.75 lb - Château Cara Ruby (3.5%)
0.25 lb - Château Cara Blond (1.2%)
0.25 lb - Special B (1.2%)

HOPS:
37.3 g - Magnum, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.7, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 46.81

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 153 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 8.5 gal, Single infusion

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
2 oz - Cocao Nibs - in 4oz 70% neutral spirit, Time: 0 min, Type: Flavor, Use: Kegging
0.25 each - Vanilla beans - in 2oz Vodka, Time: 0 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Kegging
5.5 g - Calcium Chloride (dihydrate), Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
2 g - Epsom Salt, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
2 g - Gypsum, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
0.8 g - Salt, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
5 ml - Lactic acid, Time: 0 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: Yes
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 54 - 77 F
Fermentation Temp: 64 F
Pitch Rate: 1.25 (M cells / ml / deg P)

PRIMING:
CO2 Level: 3.5 Volumes

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Light colored and malty
Ca2: 60
Mg2: 5
Na: 10
Cl: 95
SO4: 55
HCO3: 0
Water Notes:

Generated by Brewer's Friend - Brewer's Friend | Homebrew Beer Recipes, Calculators & Forum
Date: 2021-03-14 20:24 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2021-03-14 23:23 UTC

How did this turn out? Sounds amazing!