Saison

[z-bob]

I don't see any recent threads about this beer style so I'll start one. It's not a style I'm really familiar with, but I'm thinking of trying it. Most recipes I see are mostly pilsner malt, but the BJCP guidelines have a color of 5 to 14 SRM. Just ignore the color, or add a *tiny* amount of black malt to get the color to about 6?

I'm planning to use roughly 55% US pilsner malt, 12% US vienna malt, and 33% wheat flour. 1.053 OG (that seems a little high.) Ferment with WB-06, although I think I also have an old packet of Belle Saison in the fridge. Nugget or Magnum hops for bittering to about 25 IBU, and Crystal or Mt Hood hops for finishing which will bring the bitterness to about 28. Or what about Cascade hops for bittering? A little of the citrusy flavor would probably survive the boil and might be good.

 

[TWAL]

Saison is a wide ranging style .. I brewed the style a lot, my go to was something like this below. It's been years since I've brewed but I always brewed some form of this recipe w/ great results. Mash low and long, ferment high. I honestly forget the hop profile this beer had but I generally stuck to the same IBU. Might try Styrian Goldings, they're a classic saison hop and produce great results or something similar (Aurora are the same family) Northern Brewer also a decent choice.
I might add , look into picking up Phil Markowski's "Farmhouse Ales" Book as it's the Saison bible and just a great read with some history and recipes from Claasic Saison brewers. Cheers

 

[worlddivides]

My favorite styles of saison tend to be somewhat sour (which isn't new. Rather, the sour saisons were way more common before recently since they were farmhouse ales and bacteria tended to get into them), and I've thought of maybe making something like that by starting with Philly Sour for the first 3 days or so, then adding in a more traditional saison yeast, which would dominate the Philly Sour and take over, so I'd have lactic acid from the Philly Sour and alcohol and typical esters from the saison yeast. Not sure how close that'd get, but it seems worth trying.

Although they're historically associated with France and Belgium, I generally see either English hops or noble hops. The noble hops are probably more historically accurate, but the English hops work great too. Nugget or Magnum sound good, but Cascade really doesn't seem to fit a saison in my mind.

 

[mashdar]

My favorite saison yeast is the wyeast 3724. It's a bit finnicky. You either need a massive pitch or an extremely warm (88F+) ferment. But it makes a very nice Dupont-style saison.

I prefer saaz/sterling. 15-20 IBU, with 1/2oz for aroma.

Pale malt, 10% wheat malt optional, and a touch of vienna. I stick with a darker (3-4L) pale to do a low 45 minute boil without fear of DMS.

Great summer beer. I find I prefer them lower ABV, maybe 4-4.5%.

 

[Dgallo]

I don't see any recent threads about this beer style so I'll start one. It's not a style I'm really familiar with, but I'm thinking of trying it. Most recipes I see are mostly pilsner malt, but the BJCP guidelines have a color of 5 to 14 SRM. Just ignore the color, or add a *tiny* amount of black malt to get the color to about 6?

I'm planning to use roughly 55% US pilsner malt, 12% US vienna malt, and 33% wheat flour. 1.053 OG (that seems a little high.) Ferment with WB-06, although I think I also have an old packet of Belle Saison in the fridge. Nugget or Magnum hops for bittering to about 25 IBU, and Crystal or Mt Hood hops for finishing which will bring the bitterness to about 28. Or what about Cascade hops for bittering? A little of the citrusy flavor would probably survive the boil and might be good.

I think your grainbill is fine. Saison is a quite broad style guideline. I person love using cashmere or Motueka in my saisons to give them a bright citrus hop note with the phenols. They play really nice.

 

[Brewer dad]

As others have said the style is broad. Personally I like 75/25 pils:wheat, all Saaz or Fuggle/Styrian Golding mix for 30ibu. A tsp of black pepper at flameout is nice. In the past I have largely used the French saison strain fermented in the 60’s, but recently tried Omegas Saisonstein which I really liked.

It’s your beer if you know what you like or want to experiment go for it!

 

[ross.filipek]

I brew a lot of saison and have found this article to be helpful:

https://www.maltosefalcons.com/blogs/brewing-techniques-tips/a-guide-to-saisons-and-saison-yeasts

 

[beren]

I enjoyed mine with 80% Pilsner, 10% rye, 10% spelt.

 

[Bobo1898]

Personally, I think yeast and fermentation schedule/temp are key for the style.

I've done 100% pilsner with great results, but recently I've switched to 95% pils and 5% wheat. I prefer belgian strains and like combining Wyeast 3724 and WLP565 into one pitch, but more recently it's been hard for me to find both so I gave Omega's Saisonstein a go, as @Brewer dad suggested, and I like that a lot.

Saisonstein is an engineered yeast, I believe, combining a belgian and french strain together.

I like step mashing from 113°F (ferulic acid to push clove/phenols) all the way up to 163°F, but you can probably do single infusion just fine. I pitch the yeast at 66°F (but have also tried 62---feedback I got said this was clove heavy). I hold this for 3 days then let it free-rise. When the temp slows down (close to 80, sometimes mid-to-high 70s), I add heat to keep pushing it and will push it til I reach 90°F. I try to reach that sometime by day 9. I think this schedule is very important for 3724 and WLP 565 as @mashdar mentioned (it also avoids a stall), but it also worked very well with Saisonstein.

I've tried free-rising from the get-go and found it to rise too quickly resulting in banana/bubblegum bombs. Holding low temps the first few days balanced this out for me. With the above schedule and using Saisonstein, the first few weeks were still banana heavy, but that faded within a month and the phenols come through to balance.

I prefer bottle conditioned to kegging this style, but it comes down to how lazy I am at that very moment.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

I prefer 3711 yeast, I'll start fermentation low, @65 degrees or so and keep it there for a couple of days, then let it rise 5 degrees or so a day until it gets into the mid 80s and keep it there for a week or so.

Saisons are one of my favorite styles.
Typically mine are in the super range 8%+

I also like to add a bit of orange peel and coriander at 5 minutes. (questionable as to if it is within style guidelines)
Saaz or Tettnanger for the hops.

Although one day I was brewing and tossed in the wrong hops, CTZ, and it turned out fine, it was just a hoppy saison, completely out of style, but it was good.

There is a brewery in California that brewed a rye saison, ~30% rye and Ella hops that was mighty tasty.

 

[Drunk Monk]

Yesterday, I brewed my Grape Saison with 1.5 liters of 67 brix grape juice. I ramped mashing from 40°C to 78°C with 5-minute stops at each degree between 60°C and 70°C. The starting gravity (SG) was 1.062. I used a 2-liter starter of WLP565, oxygenated for 30 seconds, and pitched at 24°C, allowing it to free rise. Fermentation started like crazy within two hours, and at the 20-hour mark, it was at 30°C with an original gravity (OG) of 1.013. The kräusen disappeared, and the temperature is going down. This is by far the quickest fermentation I’ve ever had. Even hot fermented kveiks needed 2-3 days to reach this stage. Has anyone experienced such behavior from this yeast?

 

[mashdar]

Yesterday, I brewed my Grape Saison with 1.5 liters of 67 brix grape juice. I ramped mashing from 40°C to 78°C with 5-minute stops at each degree between 60°C and 70°C. The starting gravity (SG) was 1.062. I used a 2-liter starter of WLP565, oxygenated for 30 seconds, and pitched at 24°C, allowing it to free rise. Fermentation started like crazy within two hours, and at the 20-hour mark, it was at 30°C with an original gravity (OG) of 1.013. The kräusen disappeared, and the temperature is going down. This is by far the quickest fermentation I’ve ever had. Even hot fermented kveiks needed 2-3 days to reach this stage. Has anyone experienced such behavior from this yeast?

Could it be a combination of quick yeast an tons of simple sugars? Starting within 2 hours sounds like low O2 at start or massive over pitch, but I'm assuming you saw bubbles during oxygen, and starter (from 1 pack?) 2L isn't crazy. Very short lag phase.

edit: I don't use O2 - is 30s standard?
edit2: this is a 5 gallon batch?

 

[Drunk Monk]

Could it be a combination of quick yeast an tons of simple sugars? Starting within 2 hours sounds like low O2 at start or massive over pitch, but I'm assuming you saw bubbles during oxygen, and starter (from 1 pack?) 2L isn't crazy. Very short lag phase.

edit: I don't use O2 - is 30s standard?
edit2: this is a 5 gallon batch?

Usually I do 1 min of O2 for big belgians. It was 7 gal batch so 2l starter (from 10ml of frozen yeast) shoudn't be an overpitch.

 

[Brewer dad]

I’d still say a 2L starter for that OG and batch size it pretty hefty. Combine that with the juice and I’m not terribly surprised it ran through it so quickly. I believe WLP565 is one that sometimes will get stuck in the 1.030 range but clearly you didn’t have that problem. I attribute that to the above points.

Sounds like a cool beer, let us know how it turns out.

 

[jdubdvdt]

I always have my Saison on tap at my house. It is my most requested beer.

Don't try to control the fermentation temperature.
Underpitch slightly.
Don't use a starter unless you are reviving old liquid yeast.
Let the yeast putter out and it will come out crystal clear.

I usually wait a minimum of 3 weeks and I typically put a brew belt on the fermenter after 3 days to raise the temperature above 85. WLP565 is what I have in my yeast bank.