Saison Dupont attempt with 3724

[joeybeer]

So I know the recipe's not spot on, but I figured it was close enough for a first shot.
I used the bottle dregs from a bottle of Saison Dupont, revived on a stirplate with 16 oz of 1.030 wort, and after 48hrs, stepped up another 16oz for 48 hrs at 80 degrees..

Here's the recipe :


92% 9 0 American Two-row Pale 37 1 ~
5% 0 8 American Crystal 60L 34 60 ~
3% 0 4 Wheat, Torrified 36 1 ~
9 12
Batch size: 5.0 gallons


Original Gravity
1.050 measured
(1.053 estimated)
Final Gravity
1.005 measured
(1.012 estimated)
Color
6° SRM / 12° EBC
(Yellow to Gold)
Mash Efficiency
71% measured
(75% used for O.G. estimate)

hops
use time oz variety form aa
boil 60 mins 1.0 Saaz pellet 3.5
boil 30 mins 1.0 Saaz pellet 3.5
boil 15 mins 1.0 Saaz pellet 3.5
boil 1 min 1.0 Saaz pellet 3.5
Boil: 5.0 avg gallons for 60 minutes


Bitterness
26.7 IBU / 4 HBU
ƒ: Tinseth
BU:GU
0.51

yeast
Wyeast Belgian Saison (3724)






So after 5 days at 85, it's down to 1.022 and the sample tastes CRAZY !!
If I wasn't trying to make a strange tasting beer, i would have given up on this.. it's very tart, and still sweet - I can imagine mixing 1 cup of this with 12oz of tonic water and it would taste like Dupont I'll keep you posted on how it turns out.

Anybody have any similar experiences ??

 

[adc123]

Never used it, but I would imagine this beer is going to need a lot of one key ingredient: time.

 

[Montanaandy]

The fact you are down to 1.022 already is very good. Don't worry if you stall for a while at this point - very common with this yeast (and why so many of us have a love/hate relationship with 3724). I normally go with a bit larger grain bill (12 lbs base malt) for my Saison because I prefer not to use sugar to dry it out and I also use Pilsen and not 2 Row. I do love the taste of 3724 but I was really impressed with 3711 which is so much easier to use and which produces a great Saison so I plan on using 3711 more often in the future.

 

[adc123]

I used 3711 in a recent batch. Even cool it ferments VERY dry. You will not get much of any saison character if it isn't somewhat warm (around 70 i would guess). Unlike the other saison strains, however, it won't give up. This would probably make a nice house strain for both clean and belgian beers if you can moderate the temps well. I am sure some brewers out there do this! You would have to mash most of your beers quite high to compensate for the massive attenuation this strain can do.

 

[joeybeer]

Thanks guys, I'll let you know how it turns out.. it smells so tart/sour now, but it might lay down !!

 

[sonetlumiere85]

Just so you know, the details of Dupont are fairly well-known. The gravity is 1.054, made entirely from Pilsner malt (Belgian or French), hopped twice with EKGs and Styrians to about 32 IBUs, and is 6.5%ABV, which puts the FG at ~1.005.

 

[joeybeer]

Thanks Sonet - I've heard it's also fermented at 90F for two days.. can you confirm that ?? I might start my second try while the first is still in primary !

 

[abrew4me]

The book, "Farmhouse Ales" offers a lot of details about brewing a Saison, including a lot of specifics about Dupont's vieille provision.

Saison is one of my favorite beers to both brew and consume this time of the year. I've brewed about ten batches in the past five years and these are some of the things I've learned:

-3724 has never fully attenuated for me, even at temps above 90 degrees.
-it's believed that the Dupont yeast also contains some wine yeast strains.
-keeping the grain bill simple is best, but a small amount of sugar helps to dry out the beer
-I only use 3724 when my LHBS does not have any 3711 on hand, and wont be ordering more yeast any time soon.

When using 3724...

-adding D-47 wine yeast with a little additional sugar and some yeast nutrient at ~ 1.030 will finish the beer down to 1.004 (O.G. 1.054) in under three days.
-the D-47 will add additional citrus and tropical fruit notes if left on the lees for a week or more.
-keeping the temp above 85 degrees helps to add all of the great esters, but, again, it has not helped with attenuation, at least not for me.

I've even constructed a special fermenter where I place a 1/4 barrel (fermenter) inside a 1/2 barrel similar to a brew kettle. I fill the 1/2 barrel with water, wrap it with a heating pad and then insulate it. I also drop an aquarium
heater in to the water before inserting the 1/4 barrel. With this jacketed warming fermenter I can take the temp well
above 90 degrees, yet I have still have not been able to fully attenuate 3724 without adding additional yeast.

 

[abrew4me]

One other thing. There is a noticeable skunkiness in Dupont's vieille provision that many would perceive as a light-struck funk, although rather pleasant in this case. I have seen photos of Brasserie Dupont where pallets of Saison are resting outdoors. Being packaged in a green bottle, I can only wonder if it is indeed the exposure to light that causes this unique funk.

 

[cladinshadows]

One other thing. There is a noticeable skunkiness in Dupont's vieille provision that many would perceive as a light-struck funk, although rather pleasant in this case. I have seen photos of Brasserie Dupont where pallets of Saison are resting outdoors. Being packaged in a green bottle, I can only wonder if it is indeed the exposure to light that causes this unique funk.

I would say that it is definitely "light-struck funk" which is a personal taste for some people. I have had Saison Dupont which hasn't fallen victim to Dupont's outdoor pallet practice, and without the distracting skunkiness you really get a chance to appreciate the subtle complexities of Vieille Provision. I didn't even like the beer until I gave it a third chance and that was quite an eye-opener!

 

[Bashiba]

I used 3724 twice last year and struggled with attenuation as well even with high temps.

3711 however is a champ, just did a Black Saison with more specialty grains I didn't figure it would get nearly as low as my regular version which 3711 dropped to 1.003 in a couple weeks, but it took the the Black from 1.060 down to 1.006, Very impressive stuff.

 

[joeybeer]

I did another gravity reading tonight, and it's down to 1.010 & still bubbling away (@85F) The taste has changed completely from where it was a few days ago at 1.028. I was kinda considering this an early failure, but tonight it seems like it's on the path to success !! I should have known to RDWHAHB

 

[joeybeer]

Update from day 11 - we're down to 1.004 and there is still a small bubble from the airlock every 30 seconds or so.. I kicked it out of the ferm fridge, the shed was 90F today and will be in the mid to upper 80s at night for the next few, so I just gave her a towel for a coat and put her on the counter >>

It's still tasting pretty good..

Any votes on if i should Bottle condition or Keg this one ??

The bottles I want to put it in are the clear swingtop 750ml bottles.. I'll keep them in the dark !!

 

[SLI]

Results on this? Did you keg or bottle condition?