Saflager S-23 at Ale Temperatures

[NigeltheBold]

I want to make a lager, but I don't have the ability to control my fermentation temperatures. My house stays around 67-68 degrees, which is nice for brewing ales, but not lagers.

If I use Saflager S-23 for a bohemian pilsner but ferment it at ale temperatures (68 degrees), will I get a really fruity/estery beer? I've read that lower temperatures are preferred for this yeast, but I haven't heard what happens when you ferment at ale temperatures. Will it produce off flavors or anything like that? Will it be extremely fruity?

I know the beer won't be a "true" lager, but it will be as close to a lager as possible without a temperature control system.

 

[SwampassJ]

Try out the California Lager strain, it should be a better option in the mid 60s than S23.

 

[NigeltheBold]

Try out the California Lager strain, it should be a better option in the mid 60s than S23.

I've tried that strain before and wasn't super happy with it. I was hoping to try a dry lager yeast anyway. Thanks for the recommendation though.

Does anybody know what happens with S-23 at ale temperatures?

 

[NigeltheBold]

Bump... could really use some advice on this one!

 

[BobsOwnBrew68]

Because I have had difficulty in controlling fermentation temps in brewing a California Common, I've used SF23 both below 60 and above 70 degrees with no discernable difference in the quality of the final brew. The only difference is that at higher temps the fermentation is more active and completed faster than at low temps.

 

[SouthBay]

Never used s23 warm, but i've heard it can get fruity (plums and raisins, from what i remember).

For dry lager yeast, i like w34/70. Even there though, never done it warm.

 

[Yooper]

If I was making a lager recipe at ale temperatures, I'd stay away from lager yeast. It gets fruity, sulfury, and weird. I'd use a clean well attenuating ale yeast at the coolest possible temperature.

If your house is at 68 degrees, that means that the fermenting beer could easily get 8-10 degrees warmer so I'd suggest a water bath or some other way to keep it under 70 degrees. S05 is the strain I can think of that stays the "cleanest" at 70 degrees.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Been a while since I have used S-23 at ale temps. From what I remember, it can be fruity when young but changes and dries up quite a bit as it ages, more so than other yeasts as I recall., I also recall "german' lager taste as it is a german lager strain I think???....

 

[TimTrone]

If you want to use a dry yeast get some safale K97 from austinhomebrew.com. It's a alt yeast, and super clean if you can keep it at 60 or so. Very lagerish without the trouble.

 

[SimBrew]

Some Festa brew wort kit use S23 and I used it at 70 without any ester, as when I used it at 55. That's what my LHBS told their customers to use it at 70 and they never got complain about it.

 

[Denny]

S23 actually works better in the 60s than it does in the 50s. But if you want to make a pseudo lager in the 60s, you'd be better off with YUS05 or WY1007.

 

[TimTrone]

S23 actually works better in the 60s than it does in the 50s. But if you want to make a pseudo lager in the 60s, you'd be better off with YUS05 or WY1007.

What you recommend it for a steam beer at that temp?

 

[Denny]

What you recommend it for a steam beer at that temp?

First, it made such bad beers for me that I wouldn't recommend it for any style at any temp. Second, you can't just use any lager yeast at room temp for a "steam" beer. You need a specific yeast that's appropriate for the style and has developed through repeated use in that style. You can certainly use a lager yeast at room temps if you want the characteristics you'll get, but it won't necessarily be a "steam" beer (AKA CA common).

 

[wilserbrewer]

First, it made such bad beers for me that I wouldn't recommend it for any style at any temp.

For such a positive guy Denny...this really is your achiles heal

 

[Denny]

For such a positive guy Denny...this really is your achiles heal

I gotta tell it like it is!

 

[TimTrone]

First, it made such bad beers for me that I wouldn't recommend it for any style at any temp. Second, you can't just use any lager yeast at room temp for a "steam" beer. You need a specific yeast that's appropriate for the style and has developed through repeated use in that style. You can certainly use a lager yeast at room temps if you want the characteristics you'll get, but it won't necessarily be a "steam" beer (AKA CA common).

Hmmm, now I don't know what to do with it. I still have a pack leftover from a gift bag.

 

[SouthBay]

s23, in my opinion, is best used in a darker lager, like a dopplebock. The flavors it generates will fit best there. I've gotten away from it altogether in favor w34/70, though, even for those ones. I just prefer the cleaner profile.

 

[Denny]

Hmmm, now I don't know what to do with it. I still have a pack leftover from a gift bag.

Truthfully, if it was me, I'd throw it away.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Truthfully, if it was me, I'd throw it away.

lol

 

[TimTrone]

Truthfully, if it was me, I'd throw it away.

Ah, Denny! You're breaking my heart dude. I'm too cheap to do that. Can I make bread with it?

 

[HangLoose]

First, it made such bad beers for me that I wouldn't recommend it for any style at any temp. Second, you can't just use any lager yeast at room temp for a "steam" beer. You need a specific yeast that's appropriate for the style and has developed through repeated use in that style. You can certainly use a lager yeast at room temps if you want the characteristics you'll get, but it won't necessarily be a "steam" beer (AKA CA common).

Truthfully, if it was me, I'd throw it away.

This is great advice according to my experience. Just using it cause you have it is a great way to make suckey beer. Find a way to cool your ferment - its worth the trouble.

 

[Denny]

Ah, Denny! You're breaking my heart dude. I'm too cheap to do that. Can I make bread with it?

Beer yeast generally doesn't make real good bread. Beer yeast is bred to ferment sugars, bread yeast is bred to make CO2. There's some crossover, so it kinda works, but it's not great.

 

[TimTrone]

Wow, you guys really hate this yeast. I haven't used it for a few years, but I don't remember it being that bad. I do remember that I got some big time fruity flavors from it, but it worked for that style.

 

[Denny]

A lager shouldn't have big time fruity flavors. When I made a beer with it that was so bad I couldn't describe it, I sent some to John Palmer. His reply was that it tasted like "Bartles and Jaymes Passion Fruit Wine Cooler".

 

[TimTrone]

A lager shouldn't have big time fruity flavors. When I made a beer with it that was so bad I couldn't describe it, I sent some to John Palmer. His reply was that it tasted like "Bartles and Jaymes Passion Fruit Wine Cooler".

True. I almost got like a fruit stripe gum flavor from it. I used it in a obscenely hopped bohemian pils, so it wasn't so noticeable. I can't throw it away though. Someone at the LHBS will get a free pack !

 

[SwampassJ]

True. I almost got like a fruit stripe gum flavor from it.

Sounds like it might make a tasty fruit beer.

 

[HangLoose]

I have heard s-23 likes it a little warm. I may have fermented too cold (can't remember) but it was barely drinkable fruity. I pitched more wort onto an old s-23 cake and it was better but still not great.

 

[954surfer]

I fermented this yeast at 65 in 5gal wort made with 6oz hops and 10 lbs pilsner. Lets don't worry about why for now. My question is, should I dry hop, or don't bother to waste the hops on garbage.

I should add I love fruity ales

 

[Denny]

Life is too short to drink bad beer.

 

[WI_Wino]

I say give it a taste and see if you like the esters. I did a cali common with this yeast, fermented at 62, then did a 2 week lagering time. Tastes good, maybe not great beer. But it's definitely not an undrinkable beer.