Saflager S-23 at Ale Temperatures

[NigeltheBold]

I want to make a lager, but I don't have the ability to control my fermentation temperatures. My house stays around 67-68 degrees, which is nice for brewing ales, but not lagers.

If I use Saflager S-23 for a bohemian pilsner but ferment it at ale temperatures (68 degrees), will I get a really fruity/estery beer? I've read that lower temperatures are preferred for this yeast, but I haven't heard what happens when you ferment at ale temperatures. Will it produce off flavors or anything like that? Will it be extremely fruity?

I know the beer won't be a "true" lager, but it will be as close to a lager as possible without a temperature control system.

 

[SwampassJ]

Try out the California Lager strain, it should be a better option in the mid 60s than S23.

 

[NigeltheBold]

Try out the California Lager strain, it should be a better option in the mid 60s than S23.

I've tried that strain before and wasn't super happy with it. I was hoping to try a dry lager yeast anyway. Thanks for the recommendation though.

Does anybody know what happens with S-23 at ale temperatures?

 

[NigeltheBold]

Bump... could really use some advice on this one!

 

[BobsOwnBrew68]

Because I have had difficulty in controlling fermentation temps in brewing a California Common, I've used SF23 both below 60 and above 70 degrees with no discernable difference in the quality of the final brew. The only difference is that at higher temps the fermentation is more active and completed faster than at low temps.

 

[SouthBay]

Never used s23 warm, but i've heard it can get fruity (plums and raisins, from what i remember).

For dry lager yeast, i like w34/70. Even there though, never done it warm.

 

[Yooper]

If I was making a lager recipe at ale temperatures, I'd stay away from lager yeast. It gets fruity, sulfury, and weird. I'd use a clean well attenuating ale yeast at the coolest possible temperature.

If your house is at 68 degrees, that means that the fermenting beer could easily get 8-10 degrees warmer so I'd suggest a water bath or some other way to keep it under 70 degrees. S05 is the strain I can think of that stays the "cleanest" at 70 degrees.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Been a while since I have used S-23 at ale temps. From what I remember, it can be fruity when young but changes and dries up quite a bit as it ages, more so than other yeasts as I recall., I also recall "german' lager taste as it is a german lager strain I think???....

 

[TimTrone]

If you want to use a dry yeast get some safale K97 from austinhomebrew.com. It's a alt yeast, and super clean if you can keep it at 60 or so. Very lagerish without the trouble.

 

[SimBrew]

Some Festa brew wort kit use S23 and I used it at 70 without any ester, as when I used it at 55. That's what my LHBS told their customers to use it at 70 and they never got complain about it.

 

[Denny]

S23 actually works better in the 60s than it does in the 50s. But if you want to make a pseudo lager in the 60s, you'd be better off with YUS05 or WY1007.

 

[TimTrone]

S23 actually works better in the 60s than it does in the 50s. But if you want to make a pseudo lager in the 60s, you'd be better off with YUS05 or WY1007.

What you recommend it for a steam beer at that temp?

 

[Denny]

What you recommend it for a steam beer at that temp?

First, it made such bad beers for me that I wouldn't recommend it for any style at any temp. Second, you can't just use any lager yeast at room temp for a "steam" beer. You need a specific yeast that's appropriate for the style and has developed through repeated use in that style. You can certainly use a lager yeast at room temps if you want the characteristics you'll get, but it won't necessarily be a "steam" beer (AKA CA common).

 

[wilserbrewer]

First, it made such bad beers for me that I wouldn't recommend it for any style at any temp.

For such a positive guy Denny...this really is your achiles heal

 

[Denny]

For such a positive guy Denny...this really is your achiles heal

I gotta tell it like it is!

 

[TimTrone]

First, it made such bad beers for me that I wouldn't recommend it for any style at any temp. Second, you can't just use any lager yeast at room temp for a "steam" beer. You need a specific yeast that's appropriate for the style and has developed through repeated use in that style. You can certainly use a lager yeast at room temps if you want the characteristics you'll get, but it won't necessarily be a "steam" beer (AKA CA common).

Hmmm, now I don't know what to do with it. I still have a pack leftover from a gift bag.

 

[SouthBay]

s23, in my opinion, is best used in a darker lager, like a dopplebock. The flavors it generates will fit best there. I've gotten away from it altogether in favor w34/70, though, even for those ones. I just prefer the cleaner profile.

 

[Denny]

Hmmm, now I don't know what to do with it. I still have a pack leftover from a gift bag.

Truthfully, if it was me, I'd throw it away.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Truthfully, if it was me, I'd throw it away.

lol

 

[TimTrone]

Truthfully, if it was me, I'd throw it away.

Ah, Denny! You're breaking my heart dude. I'm too cheap to do that. Can I make bread with it?

 

[HangLoose]

First, it made such bad beers for me that I wouldn't recommend it for any style at any temp. Second, you can't just use any lager yeast at room temp for a "steam" beer. You need a specific yeast that's appropriate for the style and has developed through repeated use in that style. You can certainly use a lager yeast at room temps if you want the characteristics you'll get, but it won't necessarily be a "steam" beer (AKA CA common).

Truthfully, if it was me, I'd throw it away.

This is great advice according to my experience. Just using it cause you have it is a great way to make suckey beer. Find a way to cool your ferment - its worth the trouble.

 

[Denny]

Ah, Denny! You're breaking my heart dude. I'm too cheap to do that. Can I make bread with it?

Beer yeast generally doesn't make real good bread. Beer yeast is bred to ferment sugars, bread yeast is bred to make CO2. There's some crossover, so it kinda works, but it's not great.

 

[TimTrone]

Wow, you guys really hate this yeast. I haven't used it for a few years, but I don't remember it being that bad. I do remember that I got some big time fruity flavors from it, but it worked for that style.

 

[Denny]

A lager shouldn't have big time fruity flavors. When I made a beer with it that was so bad I couldn't describe it, I sent some to John Palmer. His reply was that it tasted like "Bartles and Jaymes Passion Fruit Wine Cooler".

 

[TimTrone]

A lager shouldn't have big time fruity flavors. When I made a beer with it that was so bad I couldn't describe it, I sent some to John Palmer. His reply was that it tasted like "Bartles and Jaymes Passion Fruit Wine Cooler".

True. I almost got like a fruit stripe gum flavor from it. I used it in a obscenely hopped bohemian pils, so it wasn't so noticeable. I can't throw it away though. Someone at the LHBS will get a free pack !

 

[SwampassJ]

True. I almost got like a fruit stripe gum flavor from it.

Sounds like it might make a tasty fruit beer.

 

[HangLoose]

I have heard s-23 likes it a little warm. I may have fermented too cold (can't remember) but it was barely drinkable fruity. I pitched more wort onto an old s-23 cake and it was better but still not great.

 

[954surfer]

I fermented this yeast at 65 in 5gal wort made with 6oz hops and 10 lbs pilsner. Lets don't worry about why for now. My question is, should I dry hop, or don't bother to waste the hops on garbage.

I should add I love fruity ales

 

[Denny]

Life is too short to drink bad beer.

 

[WI_Wino]

I say give it a taste and see if you like the esters. I did a cali common with this yeast, fermented at 62, then did a 2 week lagering time. Tastes good, maybe not great beer. But it's definitely not an undrinkable beer.

 

[redkj]

I just made a Vienna-ish lager with s-23. I fermented right around 60 and it is super clean. I was a little nervous to use this yeast after doing some reading, but most who reported super fruitiness fermented <55. I plan on using the slurry for my next batch or two and would recommend it for standard lagers (just a little warmer on the primary).

 

[954surfer]

thanks for the info Im gonna give it a whirl

 

[marcagio]

I know, I know, I'm answering this like 4 years too late but I stumbled upon this thread doing some googling... From my experience and from the comments I got from my supplier, S23 is an awesome yeast to use when brewing lager style beers when you don't have the gear to keep the temp down. You won't end up with the same results as if you fermented at lager temp but you'll end up with a lot of lager characteristics without ending with undesirable side junk... It's a pretty versatile yeast although branded for lagering.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I have also had decent results with S23 at ale temps. I did find the beer needs to age a bit longer, and matures nicely, more drastic than typical ale yeasts
Be patient, I was surprised several times how much the beer changed and improved as it ages.

 

[dlaramie08]

I made a steam beer with s-23 and I think the only reason it turned out well was because of the northern Brewer hops covering up the yeast flavor. I have not had a clean ferment from it in a style where there is nothing to hide behind. I have decided to go exclusively liquid yeast for lagers, because I haven't had great results with the w34/70 or whatever the code is for the other dry lager yeast from this manufacturer.

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

Ancient thread, but for anyone else who's following in my footsteps on warm-fermenting S-23:

I've made tropical stout recipes with S-23 twice now. The first time was all S-23; I split the batch in 3, 1 fermenting on my kitchen counter in Sacramento in March (so...72-75ish ambient), one fermenting in a fridge at...like...65ish....and one fermenting in a fridge at 50something. None of them were bad, but I liked both the counter and lager temp ones better than the ale temp one, and I think the counter might have narrowly edged out the lager temp one. Both were mildly fruity, with slightly different profiles, and had a decent accentuation of malt character, the ale one was kind of stilted.

I just split a second batch into four, with S-23, Nottingham (...yeah, I knew that was a bad idea from the start, but I had 6 gallons of wort and 2-gallon bucket fermenters), US-05, and W-34/70, counter fermented again in March, and...bottled it, Sharpie-ing the caps to note which batch each was from, then had to prepare for a trip before I could label the bottles, put one of each in the fridge before I got home, labeled the bottle batch generally earlier this evening, finally, then decided to pour myself a sample from each...carelessly tossing the caps aside, having forgotten the bottles didn't have new labels on them. So there's a small chance I'm mistaken about which is which. But...

I liked the one I"m like 98% sure is US-05 (it interacts with dark grains...distinctively). I did not get the tropical-peachy flavor I usually get counter-fermenting it, which is interesting.

The I-think-was-Nottingham one was not the kind of bad I expected (prominent ethyl acetate on top of crispness, but not the "Dry hopped with a burning tire" flavor you get warm-fermenting S-04, yay small mercies).

I was quite shocked that the one I'm pretty sure was W-34, which I kind of expected to be the best of the bunch for a tropical stout, given the "warm-fermented [oh, probably means "ale-fermented" >.>] lager yeast" roots, was almost as bad as the Nottingham one in the same broad ways. o.o

Honestly, I liked the one I think is S-23 best. o.o

If I turn out to be right about that...oh, and it has very good attenuation and flocculation characteristics...I may just have to try it in a porter, a blonde "ale", and a brown IP"A" next.

If I've found a house yeast, I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh. o.o