SafLager 34/70 - No activity after 48+ hours

[Cipa]

First time brewing with a lager yeast. Pitched one pack on Sunday afternoon around 20C (68F), then left in a room at 13-15C (55-60F). OG was 1.042 in a 6 gallon batch. After 48+ hours no signs of activity - the fermentation bucket does not seem pressurized, no airlock bubbling. What are my next steps?

1) Wait some more time?
2) Open, measure gravity and if no activity pitch another pack?
3) Something else?

Please help Thanks!

 

[Miraculix]

Buckets are notorious leakers. It's most likely already going.

 

[Cipa]

Buckets are notorious leakers. It's most likely already going.

So your advice would be to wait a few more days without opening?

Is there any danger in letting it just sit like that?
At what time would you open and measure gravity?

 

[Miraculix]

If you feel the urge to check, you'd better do so within the time of active fermentation. So now would be ok.

 

[Cipa]

And then if the OG didn't drop pitch another yeast pack, right?

 

[Miraculix]

And then if the OG didn't drop pitch another yeast pack, right?

Yes.

 

[Cipa]

Yes.

Thanks! Will report back.

 

[Ren06]

If the OG doesn’t drop do a small yeast starter and pitch. The active yeast will eat those sugars for sure.

 

[jdauria]

Was going to say lagers take more time to get going then ale yeast does, but the fact your pitched warm and are fermenting fairly warm, then I agree the buckets tend to leak CO2, so airlock would not show much activity. You also most likely underpitched also...while your OG was on 1.042, in a 6 gallon batch, per Brewers Friend yeast calculator, for the minimum rate for a lager (pro 1.5), it estimates you need 357 billion cells, 1 pack of dry yeast only has about 110 billion cells. But you are fermenting a little warm...so if we look at the minimum ale pitch rate (0.75), you would have need 178 Billion cells.

Lagers on average need 3 times the amount of yeast that ales do, if fermenting at lager temps. But at warmer temps, going to another yeast calculator (Homebrew Dad), let's look at a hybrid pitch rate...you would need 238 billion cells, when you pitched at max only around 110. So it reality, what you are probably really seeing is lag time. Lagers can take some time to get going as the yeast is in the growth stage right now, then it will start consuming the sugars and fermenting the beer. If it were me, I would throw another pack of yeast in now.

Also note that if room is 55-60, once it does get going, the yeast is going to create heat and ferment 5-10 degrees warmer than the room temp. Some lager yeasts work well at warm temps, others do not. 34/70 does do well at warmer temps.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Bucket leak test: We're just going to assume your airlock has level chambers. Push on the lid until you get a few bubbles coming out, then release. You should see more liquid in one chamber than the other. Wait a few minutes to an hour. if you airlock returns to dead level, you have a leak. If it stays at the same unlevel, you have stuck/no-go fermentation.

 

[MikeCo]

I think if your fermentation temperature is 55-60F, you have under-pitched for a lager yeast for 6 gallons. I would add another packet.

 

[Slim M]

I used to ferm in 2 plastic buckets for 10 gallon batches and had one that never would gargle much in the air lock while the other was blowing hard. Your probably fine 34/70 is a beast.

Probably blasphemy for yeast nerds, but I’ve gotten to where I usually just pitch 3-4 packs of CellarScience German ( basically 34/70) into 12 gallons of 1.055 wort at about 55f-60f.

I turbulently pump it into my big sanitized stainless steel fermenter that’s already in place in the ferm chamber. I set the control to 57f and let it ride for a week. Then bump a couple of degrees a day until 65 then keg on day 14. Been doing this for a while with good results.

 

[hottpeper13]

With my bucket I can shine a light tangentially and see if there is a krausen cap or not. If you see the cap just let it ride, if not open and take sample.

 

[Miraculix]

With my bucket I can shine a light tangentially and see if there is a krausen cap or not. If you see the cap just let it ride, if not open and take sample.

Lager yeasts often don't form a kräusen.

 

[hottpeper13]

Maybe, but wlp 833 needs a blow off tube. And S-189 gets almost to the top. This is at 10-12c.

 

[Slim M]

Lager yeasts often don't form a kräusen.

34/70 W strains usually always form a thin foam line while active for me.

 

[Miraculix]

I've had both at warmer temperature. I cannot really say what made the difference.

 

[odie]

I predict it has fermented quite a bit already...

 

[Cipa]

You were both right. I couldn't get the newbie urge to check though. The gravity was 1.010. And the top had a thin layer of foam/yeast floats?

I poured some sanitizer around the airlock and when I was tensing the lid some bubbles are forming around the seal, so it was leaking CO2 around the seal.

I put the lid back on and I'm not touching anything for the next 2 weeks, it doesn't need a perfect seal and enough CO2 will accumulate in the headspace to prevent oxidation, right?

 

[Miraculix]

You were both right. I couldn't get the newbie urge to check though. The gravity was 1.010. And the top had a thin layer of foam/yeast floats?

I poured some sanitizer around the airlock and when I was tensing the lid some bubbles are forming around the seal, so it was leaking CO2 around the seal.

I put the lid back on and I'm not touching anything for the next 2 weeks, it doesn't need a perfect seal and enough CO2 will accumulate in the headspace to prevent oxidation, right?

Nope. It needs a perfect seal and the gas law makes sure that the oxygen that's already inside the fermenter will find it's way into the beer. Bottle as soon as you feel comfortable enough that it's done.

Pro tip: leave only 5 mm of headspace in the bottle to minimise oxidation from the trapped oxygen in the air in the bottle.

 

[Cipa]

Nope. It needs a perfect seal and the gas law makes sure that the oxygen that's already inside the fermenter will find it's way into the beer. Bottle as soon as you feel comfortable enough that it's done.

Pro tip: leave only 5 mm of headspace in the bottle to minimise oxidation from the trapped oxygen in the air in the bottle.

Isn't 2 weeks in the fermenter recommended to let the yeast "clean up" all the nasties and let it all settle?
I mean theoretically at 1.010 it doesn't really have much sugars to convert, right?

Sorry if I'm asking frustrating newbie questions, this is my 10th brew, but this is the first time I'm having an issue so I'm panicking a bit.

 

[Cipa]

Bucket leak test: We're just going to assume your airlock has level chambers. Push on the lid until you get a few bubbles coming out, then release. You should see more liquid in one chamber than the other. Wait a few minutes to an hour. if you airlock returns to dead level, you have a leak. If it stays at the same unlevel, you have stuck/no-go fermentation.

Damn, I wish I saw this earlier, before I opened the lid up, since this would save me a ton of trouble. Thanks, good to know for future brews!

 

[G_robertus]

Isn't 2 weeks in the fermenter recommended to let the yeast "clean up" all the nasties and let it all settle?
I mean theoretically at 1.010 it doesn't really have much sugars to convert, right?

Sorry if I'm asking frustrating newbie questions, this is my 10th brew, but this is the first time I'm having an issue so I'm panicking a bit.

Yes, but if you bottle condition you'll have to do that anyway. 1.010 is nearly done I would say given your OG. It can still drop 2-4 points though.

In any case starting out is also learning stuff. I had to brew a ridiculous amount before I felt comfortable predicting the outcome of a brew (although I tend to experiment a lot as well). RDWHAHB. It will beer anyway. If you notice oxidation setting in too early you'll know what could've caused it.

 

[MaxStout]

When you're done, check the underside of the bucket lid to see if the big rubber or neoprene o-ring gasket is still there. Sometimes those fall out in storage. If there's no o-ring, you can get a new lid with o-ring for a few bucks at the home center store.

 

[Slim M]

Damn, I wish I saw this earlier, before I opened the lid up, since this would save me a ton of trouble. Thanks, good to know for future brews!

Some worry more than others about O2. Like I said earlier before my 14 gallon fermenter I use to use 2 plastic fermenter buckets (I’ve pretty much always been a 10 gallon brewer), one sealed well and the other never sealed enough to show air lock activity. Both batches got kegged separately and I never could tell a difference between them.

If it makes feel any better look up picks of the traditional German Hefeweizen brewers fermenting world class beers in monster open vessels and skimming the tops. I always think of that when I hear a soap box sermon on low O2 brewing at the homebrewers level.. I do try to minimize O2 somewhat after fermentation like purging kegs and not needlessly splashing beer around but I don’t obsess. I worry more about sanitation.

 

[Cipa]

When you're done, check the underside of the bucket lid to see if the big rubber or neoprene o-ring gasket is still there. Sometimes those fall out in storage. If there's no o-ring, you can get a new lid with o-ring for a few bucks at the home center store.

There's no gasket, this is a DIY system in which I took a food safe bucket and drilled a hole in the lid, put in a rubber seal and the airlock. Homebrewing is not that big in my country as it is in the US unfortunately. For example there are only 2 shops selling supplies here, so I sometimes have to get stuff from abroad.

Thanks for the advice though.

 

[odie]

I've found that those "easy lids" with no o-ring seal pretty damn tight.

 

[Witherby]

If it makes feel any better look up picks of the traditional German Hefeweizen brewers fermenting world class beers in monster open vessels and skimming the tops. I always think of that when I hear a soap box sermon on low O2 brewing at the homebrewers level.. I do try to minimize O2 somewhat after fermentation like purging kegs and not needlessly splashing beer around but I don’t obsess. I worry more about sanitation.

Not just Hefeweizens. Read this article about Schönram brewery and look at those giant open fermenters using 34/70 brewing some of the best lager in the world.

https://beerandbrewing.com/greatest-drinkability-the-bavarian-brewers-art/

I don’t know why people fear open fermentation. I do it for all beer styles.

 

[Slim M]

Not just Hefeweizens. Read this article about Schönram brewery and look at those giant open fermenters using 34/70 brewing some of the best lager in the world.

https://beerandbrewing.com/greatest-drinkability-the-bavarian-brewers-art/

I don’t know why people fear open fermentation. I do it for all beer styles.

Exactly ! I started home brewing back in the 2000s and I read several books on Homebrewing back then as well as subscribed to a popular homebrew magazine. Honestly man looking back I don’t ever remember or hearing about low oxygen brewing back then.

I do remember some of thos publications teaching to stir the fermented beer when you added the priming sugar in the bottling bucket, as well as using a secondary fermenter all which are frowned upon by the low O2 guys these days.

I got out of home brewing for several years but started back a few years ago and all of a sudden hazy IPAs and low O2 brewing was the thing, which I believe one begot the other at the home brewing level. Neither of which I care much for, no offense.

 

[Cipa]

I've found that those "easy lids" with no o-ring seal pretty damn tight.

Yeah, the lid is tight. The problem was me botching the drilling and making an asymmetrical hole which is leaking air around the airlock.