S04 yeast issue

[dkeller12]

I brewed an oatmeal stout from Brewing Classic Styles, the second time brewing it, and used SO4 dry yeast. I fermented it at 67°f (inside the yeasts temperature tolerance), measured by a Tilt which I know to be accurate and an inkbird temp controller set to 66°f on my chest freezer. I noticed that the yeast were quickly going through the sugars in the wort, faster than usual but thought nothing of it as the temps were not high. I tasted a sample of it after I closed transferred it to the keg and it had hot alcohol smell and taste.
Has anyone had this issue with SO4, and if so, what are the chances this will clear up over time in the keg? I have used this yeast before and never had this issue so wondering if anyone else has any advice.
Cheers!!

 

[JoeSpartaNJ]

How long did it sit in the fermenter before you transferred it to the keg?

 

[dmtaylor]

I have not experienced this with S-04. I just pitched a batch with it last night. Fermentation started in just 3 hours. I'll let you know if anything weird happens after a ~week.

Otherwise... sounds to me like yours got contaminated somehow. Are you using plastic, glass, or metal as your fermentation vessel? Did you use any hoses to transfer it to the fermenter? What is your water source? Do you use municipal water? If so, how do you treat it to remove chlorine?

Aging might be your best bet. It may or may not fade over time.

 

[dkeller12]

How long did it sit in the fermenter before you transferred it to the keg?

It was in the fermenter for 2.5 weeks and stable at the final gravity of 1.014.

 

[dkeller12]

I have not experienced this with S-04. I just pitched a batch with it last night. Fermentation started in just 3 hours. I'll let you know if anything weird happens after a ~week.

Otherwise... sounds to me like yours got contaminated somehow. Are you using plastic, glass, or metal as your fermentation vessel? Did you use any hoses to transfer it to the fermenter? What is your water source? Do you use municipal water? If so, how do you treat it to remove chlorine?

Aging might be your best bet. It may or may not fade over time.t

I have not experienced this with S-04. I just pitched a batch with it last night. Fermentation started in just 3 hours. I'll let you know if anything weird happens after a ~week.

Otherwise... sounds to me like yours got contaminated somehow. Are you using plastic, glass, or metal as your fermentation vessel? Did you use any hoses to transfer it to the fermenter? What is your water source? Do you use municipal water? If so, how do you treat it to remove chlorine?

Aging might be your best bet. It may or may not fade over time.

I use a stainless steel fermenter and clean very well, so not sure that would be it. Didn't use a hose to transfer to fermenter as I use an Anvil Foundry and let it run right out of that into the fermenter. My water is carbon filtered and treated. Used the same process for every beer I have made. It has that hot alcohol taste and smell like you would get at high temps, but it was not high. I will say, I have never had such a quick fermentation with any yeast.

 

[JoeSpartaNJ]

S-04 is usually pretty quick. I fermented with it a bunch of times, even on the hotter side, but haven't experienced what you are describing.

Can you share your grain bill?

 

[dmtaylor]

Hard to tell what is going on. Seems you've done everything right, and consistent with previous batches. I don't expect to see similar results with my current batch with S-04. But will let you know.

 

[dkeller12]

S-04 is usually pretty quick. I fermented with it a bunch of times, even on the hotter side, but haven't experienced what you are describing.

Can you share your grain bill?

9lbs maris otter
12 oz victory and chocolate malt
9 oz roasted barley
8 oz caramel 80
1 lb flaked oats
2 oz EKG at 60min
Water adjustment to mash:
3.6g calcium chloride
2.7g epsom salt
2.8g gypsum
All the same as a previous batch, just fermented faster this time

 

[JoeSpartaNJ]

Recipes seems fine.

Do you use Starsan to sanitize with?

Could there have been any residual sanitizer or cleaning in the fermenter that may have gotten missed?

 

[dkeller12]

I do use starsan, but nothing was left behind, or rather enough to cause an issue. I use a spray bottle and flip the fermenter upside down to get what can run out out The rest is negligible and has never been an issue.

It is so strange. And I cannot figure it out. Been brewing for nearly 10 years and have not had this happen.

Can an infection, if that is what it picked up cause the hot alcohol flavor? I always envisioned infections with a pellicle which this didn't have. To me, hot alcohol (fusel alcohols) come from high fermentation temps typically. Maybe I am not thinking of something.

 

[JoeSpartaNJ]

Bad pack of yeast maybe?

I'm at a loss on this one.

 

[dkeller12]

Well, I guess time will tell if it ages out, although I have my doubts. Thanks for the help anyway.

 

[Dland]

Age usually improves this sort of issue some, and sometimes improves it completely.

I just did 5 batches w S-04 at temp 67F, had no flavor issues. Mostly SG around 1.060, FG around 1.010.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

The cider I made recently (S-04) had a hot alcohol finish on the first bottle I chilled. Since then subsequent bottles have cooled down and that isn’t there anymore.

 

[ebbelwoi]

Sure sounds like you did everything right. What was the final ABV? I've found that I can detect a hot alcohol presence in most styles starting around 5.5%.

 

[dkeller12]

Sure sounds like you did everything right. What was the final ABV? I've found that I can detect a hot alcohol presence in most styles starting around 5.5%.

Just under that at 5.4%.

 

[dkeller12]

The cider I made recently (S-04) had a hot alcohol finish on the first bottle I chilled. Since then subsequent bottles have cooled down and that isn’t there anymore.

I am hoping this does the same. I would hate to lose the batch as time doesn't allow me to brew a lot anymore.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I am hoping this does the same. I would hate to lose the batch as time doesn't allow me to brew a lot anymore.

I didn’t find it so unpleasant that I would have not drank the batch, but it was definitely there on that first bottle especially after the cider had warmed up a bit towards the bottom of the glass. My cider was 7%. I bottle conditioned for two weeks. It was only a couple days after that first bottle that I started chilling and drinking the rest. I have six left. I will pay close attention when I have one this weekend and report back. I bottled on the 25th of June.

 

[IslandLizard]

I noticed that the yeast were quickly going through the sugars in the wort, faster than usual

That tells you, something out of the ordinary is going on.

I'd double check the temperature control in your fermenting chamber.
Was that pack of yeast damaged or open in any way?

I'd also check (and meticulously clean) the entire path your chilled wort follows. Valves, fittings, hoses, pumps, anything that can trap wort. If some wort is left behind it can grow nasties, and infect your next batch. Not all infections grow pellicles, e.g, (wild) yeasts don't.

 

[dmtaylor]

My batch has hit the usual 78% attenuation in 38 hours flat, which I'm always surprised about, but shouldn't be as it's normal for this yeast. I'll leave it now for 4-5 more days to see if it might come down a couple more points, but it's close to done, as the krausen as fallen in and pretty clear already. Nothing unusual here, not yet.

 

[Velnerj]

That tells you, something out of the ordinary is going on.

I'd double check the temperature control in your fermenting chamber.
Was that pack of yeast damaged or open in any way?

I'd also check (and meticulously clean) the entire path your chilled wort follows. Valves, fittings, hoses, pumps, anything that can trap wort. If some wort is left behind it can grow nasties, and infect your next batch. Not all infections grow pellicles, e.g, (wild) yeasts don't.

This!

Does your brew Kettle have a spigot? When was the last time you took that apart and cleaned all the nasties out? I know you're thinking it gets too hot to host critters but anecdotely I've seen brewers run into this issue and once they clean the spigot the infection clears up.

 

[superiorsat]

I fermented it at 67°f (inside the yeasts temperature tolerance), measured by a Tilt which I know to be accurate and an inkbird temp controller set to 66°f on my chest freezer.

This doesn't match up in my mind. I've got a batch on S-04 now and had to turn my Inkbird down to 59 to keep the S-04 in its range and actually I had it set at 61 after waking up day 2 the fermenter was at 74 so I turned the freezer down to 59 to reign it back in.
Edit- 12 gallon batch so it runs a little hotter than a single batch.

 

[dkeller12]

My

This doesn't match up in my mind. I've got a batch on S-04 now and had to turn my Inkbird down to 59 to keep the S-04 in its range and actually I had it set at 61 after waking up day 2 the fermenter was at 74 so I turned the freezer down to 59 to reign it back in.
Edit- 12 gallon batch so it runs a little hotter than a single batch.

None of it has made much sense. I have had many batches with this set up and the Tilt sits usually 1 to 2 degrees higher than the Inkbird is set to, mainly because I have the cold side delay set for 2 degrees. I always monitor my fermentation, and have the TiltPi spreadsheet showing nothing spiked in temps.

 

[moreb33rplz]

I wouldn't give too much stock to how a sample of the beer tastes before it's carb'd and aged appropriately.

EDIT: I mean, samples are useful and interesting along the way, but tasting a sample that doesn't taste like you want the final product to taste is normal.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Definitely no alcohol hotness now. Give it a little time. This cider is delicious.

 

[dkeller12]

I wouldn't give too much stock to how a sample of the beer tastes before it's carb'd and aged appropriately.

EDIT: I mean, samples are useful and interesting along the way, but tasting a sample that doesn't taste like you want the final product to taste is normal

Totally understand that. The only reason is was noticable was because I have brewed this in the past and it was nothing like this. Also, other than one batch I made early on in my brew days I had a hot alcohol issue and that was similar in taste to this and that was definitely a temp control issue.

 

[dkeller12]

Totally understand that. The only reason is was noticable was because I have brewed this in the past and it was nothing like this. Also, other than one batch I made early on in my brew days I had a hot alcohol issue and that was similar in taste to this and that was definitely a temp control issue.

Definitely no alcohol hotness now. Give it a little time. This cider is delicious.

Good to hear. My keg is on gas for a few days now and I will see if things improved soon. Hopefully I will have the same outcome as you.

 

[dkeller12]

So I finally tasted the beer and the first tasting did have a slight smell of alcohol but not so much in the taste. The next day I pulled a pint off the keg and it was almost totally unnoticeable. Had someone else taste the beer and they didn't notice anything and said it was delicious.

I am stumped but happy I didn't have to dump this batch as it was made for my father who was coming for a visit.

I have been brewing for nearly 10 years and I do know non-carbonated beer taste and this was not it. Just wondering if there was a byproduct of such a fast fermentation at the top of the beer that maybe I was tasting.

 

[dmtaylor]

Just wondering if there was a byproduct of such a fast fermentation at the top of the beer that maybe I was tasting.

It's possible you got some fusel type alcohols that have since dissipated and/or mellowed.

I am drinking my latest S-04 beer right now. It's clean and tasty, and ended up attenuating 82% from 1.073 to 1.013. Actually a bit more dry than I was shooting for so I added a few ounces of lactose to take that edge off.