S-23 Lager Yeast Educate Me

[Slim M]

I used S – 23 yeast many many years ago I don’t really remember how I used it as far as fermentation schedule goes and that old notebook got lost in a move. I see some seem to have a strong dislike for the yeast.

It appears S-23, maybe closely related to the Urquell strain. For those of you who use it and love it teach me about it. I’m thinking down the road at what beers I’ll be trying to do next and I’m thinking about Czech Pilsner.

 

[VikeMan]

I haven't used S-23, so can't really give specific advice there, but...

I think S-23 was genetically tested and found to be close to the Urquell "H" strain. That said, if you want to use a dry strain for a bopils, you might be better off with 34/70. I say that because I've tasted quite a few good bopils made with 34/70, but no good ones made with S-23 (IIRC).

I'm sure someone with hands on experience with S-23 will chime in.

 

[mashdar]

I used S-23 a few times and it was fine, but a bit of plum or something.

A lot of people dislike S-23, so you wouldn't be alone. Here's Denny saying it "made the 2 worst beers I've ever made. Disgustingly, undrinkably fruity."
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/fermentis-saflager-s-23-vs-w-34-70.99667/post-1088271

 

[Airborneguy]

I use it all the time for many different styles. It plows through anything up to 1.055 or so for me. I have a fest-style beer lagering with it right now.

I do 50 F until it is in the 1.015 range, then a diacetyl rest for 2-3 days, then go down 5 F per day until I get to 33 F. There it sits until I decide to keg, at least 4 weeks.

 

[NSMikeD]

If you haven't done so, Fermintis has write ups on their website to help you with selection. 23 is described for fruity hoppy lagers. 34/70 is for strong robust neutral beers and they release a new 30 they say reveals the esters in lagers. i only have experience with 34/70 so i can't speak to 23 or 30, but i have used their different ale yeast and found their rights ups pretty accurate, including how temp can affect the characteristics.

 

[Dog House Brew]

S-23 is a fine yeast IMO. It can handle warmer temps too. I also make sure to do a D rest with it. It is better for malty styles. Leaves the beer with a fuller mouthfeel. I’ve medaled with it several times in euro malty lager styles.
34/70 is a chewer. It leaves nothing on the yeast side. Dryer finish and the hops shine through. I know people really like it, I don’t. Meh…
I tend to use S-189 now. It lands right in the middle. Doesn’t quite thin out like 34/70. It isn’t as malty as S-23. I’m carbing some 189 now. 1.055-1.010. My favorite dry lager yeast at the moment.

 

[Slim M]

I used S-23 a few times and it was fine, but a bit of plum or something.

A lot of people dislike S-23, so you wouldn't be alone. Here's Denny saying it "made the 2 worst beers I've ever made. Disgustingly, undrinkably fruity."
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/fermentis-saflager-s-23-vs-w-34-70.99667/post-1088271

I actually found some of my notes from a bit ago that I thought I lost apparently I have used S23 more recent than I remember. It looks like I used it in a Vienna style with OG of around 45 and fermented it slightly warm 58-60f for a several days before increasing temp 1-2 degrees a day until 68f total 14 days in fermenter. I kegged, carbonated, cold stored for 5 weeks before tapping and hated it was you guessed it fruity like apricot or something strange.

By starting this thread I have jogged my own memory . I think subconsciously I would like to use S23, but have not really found a use for it that I like but it maybe user error. Fruity lager is not something I have ever purposefully tried for except maybe a slight hint in Cali common. W type strains & Diamond have been pretty bullet proof for what I’m doing. Both attenuate high but I counter slightly when needed by mashing at higher temps like 158f. For those of you who love it and get it to ferment without heavy fruit flavors what’s the trick?

 

[MicroMickey]

S-23 is the RH strain from VLB in Berlin. I've gotten my best results from it at just under 50 F.

 

[Airborneguy]

I actually found some of my notes from a bit ago that I thought I lost apparently I have used S23 more recent than I remember. It looks like I used it in a Vienna style with OG of around 45 and fermented it slightly warm 58-60f for a several days before increasing temp 1-2 degrees a day until 68f total 14 days in fermenter. I kegged, carbonated, cold stored for 5 weeks before tapping and hated it was you guessed it fruity like apricot or something strange.

By starting this thread I have jogged my own memory . I think subconsciously I would like to use S23, but have not really found a use for it that I like but it maybe user error. Fruity lager is not something I have ever purposefully tried for except maybe a slight hint in Cali common. W type strains & Diamond have been pretty bullet proof for what I’m doing. Both attenuate high but I counter slightly when needed by mashing at higher temps like 158f. For those of you who love it and get it to ferment without heavy fruit flavors what’s the trick?

That’s way too warm with almost no lagering phase. The temp ramp up shouldn’t happen until fermentation is nearly complete, not immediately at 1-2F per day.

 

[dmtaylor]

S-23 makes a slightly fruity lager (like tutti-fruity) with a hint of diacetyl. Both the esters and diacetyl fade after a couple months of aging. It's not my favorite yeast but I don't hate it and will have no qualms about using it again, I think I still have a pack in the fridge. As for fermentation temps... I'm not convinced it matters. I ferment most of my lagers in the upper 50s to mid-60s and I think they turn out great.

Oh and yes, it is indeed a sister to one of the Urquell strains genetically.

 

[MaxStout]

I haven't used S-23, so can't really give specific advice there, but...

I think S-23 was genetically tested and found to be close to the Urquell "H" strain. That said, if you want to use a dry strain for a bopils, you might be better off with 34/70. I say that because I've tasted quite a few good bopils made with 34/70, but no good ones made with S-23 (IIRC).

I'm sure someone with hands on experience with S-23 will chime in.

No experience with S-23, but I'll second the 34/70 suggestion. That's a good, all-around lager yeast and it's more forgiving if your ferm temps go a little high. I've made good, clean lagers with 34/70 at temps up in the low 60s.

 

[Genuine]

S-23 can be fruity all on it's own. I made 20-30 gallons of lager and splitting up batches with different yeasts. One I made with 1/4oz of magnum just for bittering at 60min and I couldn't believe the noticeable fruity aroma and character the yeast developed. I can see it working well with a cold ipa, but if you're looking for a clean lager, then 34/70 would be my choice.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I can see it working well with a cold ipa

I have used S23 multiple times and have found it fruity every time, like Juicy Fruit gum (yuk). I tried cold and I have tried it under pressure, both were failures. But I always wondered if it would work in a IPA or PA with fruity hops. I think the fruitiness would work in that situation.

34/70 and WY2124 are extremely clean and that's what I expect in a lager. If I want fruit, I'll switch strains and ingredients.

 

[Slim M]

That’s way too warm with almost no lagering phase. The temp ramp up shouldn’t happen until fermentation is nearly complete, not immediately at 1-2F per day.

Try a W-strain or Diamond at that temp and schedule and you might surprise yourself. If you read farther down I also stated I cold stored or lager for 5 weeks after a 2 week fermentation. By the time the second keg is tapped it’s been a few months.

 

[fluketamer]

these are the dry lager yeasts i have tried and the order i would rate them in:

s23 - least favorite can throw sulfur and definately estery above 59 degrees
diamond lager - more neutral then s23 relatively clean can handle many repitches. also doesnt like 60's that much
cellarscience baja - incredibly clean yeast - basically flavorless - doesnt like repitching
cellar sciance german - my new favorite and house strain its the same as 34/70 - which im convinced is the best dry lager yeast out there. very clean. really imparts a nice german flavor ( i cant describe it ) . tolerates 60's very well. likes repitching.

 

[Airborneguy]

Try a W-strain or Diamond at that temp and schedule and you might surprise yourself. If you read farther down I also stated I cold stored or lager for 5 weeks after a 2 week fermentation. By the time the second keg is tapped it’s been a few months.

Maybe the W’s, but weren’t you talking about S-23?

 

[Slim M]

Maybe the W’s, but weren’t you talking about S-23?

Not sure I guess. When you said “any lagering phase” it read as a blanket statement to all lager yeast to me.

 

[Airborneguy]

Not sure I guess. When you said “any lagering phase” it read as a blanket statement to all lager yeast to me.

I was talking about your process. I guess i read it wrong. It sounded like you weren’t lagering. I see now that you’re transferring to a keg, then lagering.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

S-23 is supposed to be "clean" when pitched warm

 

[Slim M]

S-23 is supposed to be "clean" when pitched warm

Elaborate please sir.

 

[Slim M]

these are the dry lager yeasts i have tried and the order i would rate them in:

s23 - least favorite can throw sulfur and definately estery above 59 degrees
diamond lager - more neutral then s23 relatively clean can handle many repitches. also doesnt like 60's that much
cellarscience baja - incredibly clean yeast - basically flavorless - doesnt like repitching
cellar sciance german - my new favorite and house strain its the same as 34/70 - which im convinced is the best dry lager yeast out there. very clean. really imparts a nice german flavor ( i cant describe it ) . tolerates 60's very well. likes repitching.

I too am a fan of German it’s a great value in my opinion plus it has an extra gram compared to others. I used Baja 3 times 2 time it was great but once I got a strange apple taste it was one of the few beers in many years including my s23 experience that had a bit of an off flavor I could detect. What temp did you use your Baja at?

 

[AmarikinBrew]

Elaborate please sir.

Others have said this, I cannot elaborate as I haven't used this yeast, given it's rep.

John Palmer (How to brew) [seems he's in this boat too, as I am]
[quote /on]
Saflager S-23 (DCL Yeast)
This lager strain is used by several European commercial breweries. This yeast develops soft estery notes at the recommended temperature range of 48-59°F and more ale-like characteristics at warmer temperatures. From what I have read, I am speculating that this is a Kolsch or Alt-type yeast. This strain of yeast will produce a lager character at 54°F, and homebrewers have reported good results with this yeast. Given the recommended fermentation temperature range, these yeasts may not respond well to lagering (extended secondary fermentation at low temperatures) as described in Chapter 10, and probably should be maintained at 54°F for the duration of the time in the fermenter, approximately 2-3 weeks. I have not used this yeast myself and cannot say for certain.
[quote /off]

 

[fluketamer]

I too am a fan of German it’s a great value in my opinion plus it has an extra gram compared to others. I used Baja 3 times 2 time it was great but once I got a strange apple taste it was one of the few beers in many years including my s23 experience that had a bit of an off flavor I could detect. What temp did you use your Baja at?

50 to 52 degrees for 10 days then warmed up for three days to 68 degrees.

 

[G_robertus]

I liked S-23. I tried stressing it and getting a lot of fruit, but it didn't work. Warm or cold, I've made nice beers with it. I liked it in BoPils, Märzen, Mexican lager and Baltic Porter. I did a large split batch experiment where I intended to use S-23, but forgot to buy it. It's on the list for next year's edition though.

 

[shavy]

I used two packets of s23 when making a Munich Helles. Fermented at 50F°. After a week, diacetyl rest (raised temp 2F° every 12 hours until reaching 64F°) then let it sit for 5 days. Cold crash to 35F° for a month before carbonation. Turned out great.